Are SWIZA knives SAKs?

[kirk13]

well, we all know who is to blame for Wengers downfall .....

IT wasn't me,I'd the day off that day

[dks]

[styx]

are we gonna see any reviews of SWIZA knives?

[Grathr]

I plan to write one about the D02 after I have EDC'ed it for a while.

[dks]

there are a few first looks/reviews in the forum. no destruction testing

[Etherealicer]

there are a few first looks/reviews in the forum. no destruction testing

Well I mangled both the Phillips and the small-screwdriver... although it was with no intention of destruction, just trying to tighten some screws.

[dks]

no batoning?

my screwdrivers did ok, so far

[Storky]

I like my SWIZA D04, I love my trusty Boker 182 Sports Knife and I'm very interessted in
the new Sanrenmu MPKs but all of them are no SAKs. The one and only real SAKs are
from Vic and Wenger.

[Etherealicer]

no batoning?

my screwdrivers did ok, so far

No battoning, just slipping off while using the drivers.

[styx]

That doesn't bode too well

[jcfiguet]

I have been thinking a bit about this. Are SWIZA knives SAKs?
It looks like one, its Swiss made, but it has no connection with the swiss army. The counter argument would be that neither does most of the Vic models. If I have understood it right,(feel free to correct me)  only the Soldier/standard issue knives has been issued to the Swiss Army. So all the other models are really not Swiss "Army" Knives.
I know there might be some emotions regarding this issue, so please keep the discussion civilised and friendly

Oh! And dont forget to vote in the poll

Interesting !

I'm French, so I don't still understand the subtleties of the English language, but I think there is some confusion with the words... 
Who first call "Swiss Army Knives" all the Swiss Knives ? The American GI's at the end of WW2... 

In French we say "Couteaux Suisses" (Swiss knives) for all civilian Swiss knives and "couteaux de soldats suisses" (Swiss soldiers knives) for all official knives in the Swiss Army, like Mod. 1961 (alox) or mod. 2008.

At the begining, (about 1900's) existed more than 30 manufactures of knives in Switzerland ! Not only Victorinox and Wenger !!! 
Some of these cutlers made knives for the Swiss Army, but not all cutlers. And some knives (first 15000 soldiers knives) for the Swiss Army where made outside Switzerland (in Germany and probably in France).
Here 19 brands and tang stamps referenced for the Swiss Soldier Knife mod. 1908 :
http://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/les-couteaux-du-soldat/les-modeles-1908

Currently, "SK" (in French) or "SAK" (in English) have the common definition : "Knives made in Switzerland". This is what Urs Wyss (the boss of Victorinox factory) told me last year (2014) when I met him...

So... SWIZA are "SAK" or not ? That's the question !
- SWIZA never made knives for the Swiss Army, that's right, but who can say "they will never make knives for the Swiss Army ?
- SWIZA knives are completly made in Switzerland and for this reason SWIZA knives are Swiss knives.
To be fair, if for you, a Victorinox Huntsman or a Wenger S17 are "SAK", SWIZA knives are also "SAK" !

I bought the 4 SWIZA Knives and I said my first impressions here :
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,62284.msg1190466.html#msg1190466

[Etherealicer]

At the begining, (about 1900's) existed more than 30 manufactures of knives in Switzerland ! Not only Victorinox and Wenger !!! 

- SWIZA never made knives for the Swiss Army, that's right, but who can say "they will never make knives for the Swiss Army ?

There are still some smaller knife manufactures around, like Klötzli.

I'm pretty sure if they have the capacity they will produce knives for the Swiss Army. All public orders like this have to be spread over the regions, so everybody can profit. We do like our federalism

[jcfiguet]

At the begining, (about 1900's) existed more than 30 manufactures of knives in Switzerland ! Not only Victorinox and Wenger !!! 

- SWIZA never made knives for the Swiss Army, that's right, but who can say "they will never make knives for the Swiss Army ?

There are still some smaller knife manufactures around, like Klötzli.

I'm pretty sure if they have the capacity they will produce knives for the Swiss Army. All public orders like this have to be spread over the regions, so everybody can profit. We do like our federalism

After Klötzli and Röthlisberger, I'm curious to know how many little cutlers still exist in Switzerland...

Another compromise of 1908 in 2015 or 2016 between Swiza and Victorinox ? LOL !

[Etherealicer]

At the begining, (about 1900's) existed more than 30 manufactures of knives in Switzerland ! Not only Victorinox and Wenger !!! 

- SWIZA never made knives for the Swiss Army, that's right, but who can say "they will never make knives for the Swiss Army ?

There are still some smaller knife manufactures around, like Klötzli.

I'm pretty sure if they have the capacity they will produce knives for the Swiss Army. All public orders like this have to be spread over the regions, so everybody can profit. We do like our federalism

After Klötzli and Röthlisberger, I'm curious to know how many little cutlers still exist in Switzerland...

Another compromise of 1908 in 2015 or 2016 between Swiza and Victorinox ? LOL !

Not many as labor is very expensive in Switzerland.
I'm not interested in those that much (not my price range). I know there are several more, e.g. HJK (him I know personally). I think its on the rise again, we even have a master* weapon-smith again.

I doubt it will be in 2016 as I doubt that Swiza has the capacity for a military order. But if they stick around, maybe in 2020...


*master, meaning he is certified to train apprentice weapon smiths.

[jcfiguet]

I also doubt that Swiza has the capacity for a military order today! LOL
And I'm not sure they will be ready for that in the futur...

HJK in Basel, it's interesting. Also it's not my price range, but... I will give its address to a friend, a big collector of knives made by master cutlers like "meilleur ouvrier de France" (in France) or Master...something (I didn't remember the german word) in Germany, etc...

[Etherealicer]

I also doubt that Swiza has the capacity for a military order today! LOL
And I'm not sure they will be ready for that in the futur...

HJK in Basel, it's interesting. Also it's not my price range, but... I will give its address to a friend, a big collector of knives made by master cutlers like "meilleur ouvrier de France" (in France) or Master...something (I didn't remember the german word) in Germany, etc...

HJK also makes SAK-tools (cork-screw, blade, whatever) with damascene steel

[NetsNJ]

well, we all know who is to blame for Wengers downfall .....

Al Qaeda?

[SAK Guy]

well, we all know who is to blame for Wengers downfall .....

Al Qaeda?

Yes, along with global warming! 

[NetsNJ]

It's true though, right?

[zoidberg]

It's true though, right?

Let it go.   

[AimlessWanderer]

You make a good arguement that this is a very capable multipurpose knife. I have no contention with that. It doesn't make it a SAK in my mind, and more than any other very capable multipurpose knives. In my mind SAK's are issued knives, but I am willing to "relax" the term to cover Victorinox and Wenger knives that were not issued, purely as that is a generic term that has spread that far in common usage.

Maybe one day Swiza will earn an order from the Swiss military, and then be able to share that accolade too

I hope it serves you well, and gives you a lot of enjoyment from using it. 

[AimlessWanderer]

You make a good arguement that this is a very capable multipurpose knife. I have no contention with that. It doesn't make it a SAK in my mind, and more than any other very capable multipurpose knives. In my mind SAK's are issued knives, but I am willing to "relax" the term to cover Victorinox and Wenger knives that were not issued, purely as that is a generic term that has spread that far in common usage.

Maybe one day Swiza will earn an order from the Swiss military, and then be able to share that accolade too

I hope it serves you well, and gives you a lot of enjoyment from using it. 

You know, I don't want to speak anymore on this forum. I prefere European forums more open-minded.

Multitool.org is the only knives forum, which I know, where we can read that Swiza is not SAK.

I am sorry if I said something that offended. I thought I was saying positive things

Maybe if I study your posts and how you deal with accepting other peoples thoughts, I will learn how to be more openminded .....

[NetsNJ]

jcfiguet, people are allowed to have their own opinions.  Victorinox owns the trademarks on "Original" and "Genuine" Swiss Army Knives, so it is hardly irrational to think that they are the only true SAKs.  I can't understand why you seem to be getting personally offended by people disagreeing over the definition of SAK. 

[Etherealicer]

Sorry Al for editing your post (removed a comment you quoted that we do not tolerate on this forum)

jcfiguet: Stick to comprehensive arguments and stay away from insults or references to dictators or you will be banned.
Also your tone does not help your cause.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Sorry Al for editing your post (removed a comment that we do not tolerate on this forum)

jcfiguet: Stick to comprehensive arguments and stay away from insults or references to dictators or you will be banned.
Also your tone does not help your cause.

 

Beat, for clarification, that was a comment in the quote, and not a comment that I made, correct? Apologies for labouring the point

(I actually know which it was, but it could be read like I may have made the comment that cannot be tolerated  )

[dks]

All the best. Nobody forces anybody to stay or post.
Closing perfectly good threads because some people have no people skills is not the answer.
This is an international forum so some tolerance with respect to beliefs, understanding and so on is needed and does exist, but some people are lacking in humour, miss the point of the forum or feel that they are the defenders of the one true truth or that everybody is out to get them.

[Etherealicer]

Sorry Al for editing your post (removed a comment that we do not tolerate on this forum)

jcfiguet: Stick to comprehensive arguments and stay away from insults or references to dictators or you will be banned.
Also your tone does not help your cause.

 

Beat, for clarification, that was a comment in the quote, and not a comment that I made, correct? Apologies for labouring the point

(I actually know which it was, but it could be read like I may have made the comment that cannot be tolerated  )

Sorry for not being clear. Yes it was a comment you quoted that I edited

[Etherealicer]

All the best. Nobody forces anybody to stay or post.
Closing perfectly good threads because some people have no people skills is not the answer.
This is an international forum so some tolerance with respect to beliefs, understanding and so on is needed and does exist, but some people are lacking in humour, miss the point of the forum or feel that they are the defenders of the one true truth or that everybody is out to get them.

Agreed, just had to delete a very well made post because it ended in an insult.

[dks]

I am not referring to Al, by the way. 

[jcfiguet]

You make a good arguement that this is a very capable multipurpose knife. I have no contention with that. It doesn't make it a SAK in my mind, and more than any other very capable multipurpose knives. In my mind SAK's are issued knives, but I am willing to "relax" the term to cover Victorinox and Wenger knives that were not issued, purely as that is a generic term that has spread that far in common usage.

Maybe one day Swiza will earn an order from the Swiss military, and then be able to share that accolade too

I hope it serves you well, and gives you a lot of enjoyment from using it. 

You know, I don't want to speak anymore on this forum. I prefere European forums more open-minded.

Multitool.org is the only knives forum, which I know, where we can read that Swiza is not SAK.

Keep your certainties... As Stalin had his !

I am sorry if I said something that offended. I thought I was saying positive things

Maybe if I study your posts and how you deal with accepting other peoples thoughts, I will learn how to be more openminded .....

I'm not offended and I don't want apology. It's not your fault.

I was blocked by Zoidberg this morning because I'm not agree with some members, but I never say insults to anybody or other things like that.

On this forum when somebody not agree a "big mouth" he's blocked or banned... I'm a moderator and administrator on other forums, but I never use this kind of censure !

I try to explain and to understand some contradictory or false assertions about Swisa, but I see that it goes against the "unique thought" of this forum.

First, I'm collector, so I'm on a knives forum for my pleasure and to share my passion, not to be on a rugby field or on a boxing ring.
So I prefere go away to share that I think on forums more opened with people without bias.