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rechargable battery guidance please 2273

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,476 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
rechargable battery guidance please
« on: December 02, 2015, 01:01:06 AM »
I have been using single use batteries for pretty much all my lights, but putting the Nitecore Tubes on my keyrings have got me thinking I maybe ought to consider using rechargeable cells on the others. I have partially avoided this as I tend to put thing on charge when I am away from the house, or when I am sleeping. I also tend to forget I've left stuff on charge  :whistle: I have avoided 18650's for this reason, as I am led to believe they are not idiotproof, and would rather avoid proving that to myself. If I am to get any form of recharging set up, it needs to have overcharge protection, and be able to be left unattended.

The other thing I am unsure of, is if any of my lights are unsuitable for using with rechargeables. I am sure I have heard mention of this before, but as I am pretty much clueless with this, I thought I'd just throw it open to the greater wisdom of the members here

Here's the cells and lights I am looking at powering:

CR123a:
Thrunite T20 (both old and new versions)
Fenix PD20 (about five years old)
Quark Mini 123 Ti
Sunwayman V10R

AA:
Quark AA2 Tactical
Thrunite T10 (both old and new versions)

AAA:
Gerber Tempo
Preon Revo
Maratac Cu
Nitecore T0
Thrunite Ti (old and new)
Silva Ninox

I think that's everything  :think: I do have a Lumapower D mini VX, although I'll not be using that (it will be sold/traded at some point, when I find it and all it's peripherals)

Basically, I don't even know where to start  :ahhh please educate me  :cheers:
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 01:02:17 AM by 50ft-trad »



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,418
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 01:23:09 AM »
I am in the same boat and look forward to the experts coming along.

Leatherman:
Wave, Surge, Skeletool, PST I,  Squirt S4, Micra, Rebar,

Victorinox:
Explorer, Super Tinker, CyberTool, Yeoman, Champion Plus, Red Shield Syph Custom, Pioneer, Ranger, Workchamp, Classic, Vagabond, Swisschamp, OH GAK

Wenger:
Handyman, Pocket Tool Chest

Spyderco:
Southard, Dragonfly 2, Para Military 2, Native Tan, Sage 3, Endura, Delica, Manix 2, Military
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,232 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 01:59:41 AM »
Are you looking at lithium ions. They won't work in some of the ones you have. You would fry the circut. For aa and aaa get yourself a few packs of eneloops.
47 aa2 will work on one lithium ion with the short tube, but not two.

47 mini might fry, some have used lithium ions but only for short bursts on high, not recommended.

T20 I don't remember but i think not.

V10R is safe with li-ions

Also a decent charger, opus or nitecore.

Will update tomorrow
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,476 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 02:19:03 AM »
I have absolutely no idea whatsoever about chemistry. I'm starting with a completely blank canvas. What's the issue with incompatability? Voltages too high on rechargables? Does that mean a different chemistry, or sticking with single use?

I really am starting right at the beginning here  :D

Thanks for your help  :salute: I'll appreciate all I can get on this topic  :P



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 1,045

WWW 00

******
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 02:29:48 AM »
  Start with NiMH, unless you're a real idiot (which I'm sure you're not) you should not have much problems. Only (actually mostly) AA and AAA, just buy some Eneloops with the charger that is plenty good.

  I'ld like to state that I'm no expert at anything, and as a disclaimer I am not responsible for any negative outcomes of your adventure with rechargeables.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/183

please forgive any grammar errors, I typed in a bit of a hurry.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 02:32:48 AM by WWW »
No Life Club Posts: 4,439 Apparently it is possible to have too many tools;)
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 05:53:50 AM »
Like the others have already said, for AA and AAA batteries just get eneloops (preferably the low self discharge version) and a decent charger.  I like my MAHA MH-C9000 as it has lots of functions.

Rechargeable Li-ion batteries are best left to people who understand their limitations and potential problems, so maybe sticking with primaries (non-rechargeables) is your best option for CR123 batteries.

babola: "Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course."
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 26,065 Plumbers Know Their Crap!!
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 06:02:52 AM »
I kinda gave up on my cr123's, I have no clue as to my batteries but I got tired of buying the 123's, and I got like two perfect flashlights in that setup, but I just went to AA's, one in which will take the juice of the 3v AA, I forget what the name of them are, but I bought the el cheapo charger with two batteries and they seem to work..
JR

"The-Mad-Plumbarian" The Punisher Of Pipes!!! JR
No Life Club Posts: 3,543
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 07:19:29 AM »
Best 20 USD I've ever spent:
http://www.SPAMCORP.com/chargers-batteries/pp_105265.html

Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
No Life Club Posts: 1,405 woes oke
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 07:37:19 AM »
The AA and AAA requirements are a simple no brainer.
Get a good charger like a Maha 9000 and Sanyo technology cells (low self discharge NiMh) and smile.

For CR123 its a bit tricky as a single use Lithium cell is 3.0v and then there are two rechargeable options that may or may not work.

1. "Normal" Li-ion is usually LiCoO2  = 3.6v nominal and 4.2v charged
2. LiFePO4 = 3.2v nominal and 3.6v charged

Most CR123 circuits cannot handle the 4.2v of the Li-ion and get overwhelmed or blown.
The LiFePO4 are better but carry a lot less energy and you will need to recharge often.

I use the Maha 9000 and then a Nitecore branded "smart" charger for the rest.
The Nitecore D4 can charge all chemistries from NiMh to LifePO4 to Li-ion.
I have a LD22 Fenix that I often carry and it works well with LiFePO4 Tenergy cells, I leave the Tenergy charger plugged in for these so I dont need to change any settings on the Nitecore D4 to charge them.
Charging a LiFePO4 at 4.2v will ruin them; even though they wont explode like Li-ions sometimes do.
If your light can handle 4.2v cells then by all means use them with the i4 or d4 Nitecore chargers, they are slow but work.


http://charger.nitecore.com/product/digicharger-d4

http://www.mahaenergy.com/mh-c9000/

Even the plain i series Nitecore are good for 4.2v Li-ion. The D series just adds support for NiMh and LiFePO4.

I have an i2 as well.
http://charger.nitecore.com/product/intellicharger-i2

« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 07:40:03 AM by shark_za »
No Life Club Posts: 1,405 woes oke
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 07:43:55 AM »
Maybe it is because I have the Rolls Royce Maha that I never used the i2 for NiMh, I see it even does those.
The D only adds LiFePO4 support and a digital screen.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

dks cy

********* *
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 08:17:49 AM »
Some lights are designed to take a range of voltages, from around 0.8V to 4.2V and regulate the current accordingly (regulated lights) LiIon and AA, AAA
Some are only designed to take  0.8V to 1.5V, and again regulate the output.
Others are directly driven and start bright, dimming along the way.

Some lights (and other electronic commodities) need to have 1.5V, especially some older ones, and will have an issue with recheargeables that start at about 1.2V (I have a canon camera that does that)

some lights will run the battery flat, whereas others will stop when a minimum voltage is reached.

Many lights will say to avoid recheargeables, but this can be ignored. Just use them.

Usually they will also say if you can use LiIons or not.

Some lights that use 3AAA batteries can also take 1 18650 in its place, with a thickness adaptor.

Do not worry too much about LiIons - most of your electronic devices (phones, tablets, cameras) use them anyway.

Get a good charger and some Sanyo or Panasonic LiIons, if you want to.

Go for LSD rechargeables. LIDL has some (green) that are cheap and work fine

The usual way to kill any rechargeables is to overcharge them or, in my case, let them go totally flat.

Have a look at battery university and the link I have on my signature regarding chargers and batteries.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
No Life Club Posts: 3,543
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 08:23:46 AM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 31,383 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 09:41:01 AM »
I go with the idiot proof Nitecore i4 charger.  If there is a type of rechargeable cell it doesn't do I can't think of it.

As others have said I go with Eneloop AA and AAA.

As a way of getting rid of your Alkaline addiction I don't think you can go wrong with that set-up.

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
No Life Club Posts: 1,405 woes oke
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 09:43:06 AM »
i4 does not do LiFePO4 while the d4 does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,032 I brake for cake
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 10:02:51 AM »
Definitely worth getting Eneloops, maybe the Eneloop Pro if you want the extra capacity.  I use a Technoline BL700 charger.  It charges each cell independently and you can select the level of power input while charging so it can do single batteries no problem.  It'll also do discharge and refresh cycles to condition the batteries if needed.
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 31,383 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 12:54:45 PM »
i4 does not do LiFePO4 while the d4 does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I stand corrected. :salute:

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
No Life Club Posts: 3,543
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 12:58:33 PM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

 :bump:

Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,476 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 02:24:51 PM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

 :bump:

No idea, but I suspect it is more likely with you as part of the equation  :P

Thanks to everyone for your input so far. I'll digest all that and start having a look around at what's available and affordable. Feel free to keep chucking in ideas and advice in the meantime though  :cheers:



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
No Life Club Posts: 3,543
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 02:39:28 PM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

 :bump:

No idea, but I suspect it is more likely with you as part of the equation  :P

So funny... HA HA  :twak:

For CR123 its a bit tricky as a single use Lithium cell is 3.0v and then there are two rechargeable options that may or may not work.
Most CR123 circuits cannot handle the 4.2v of the Li-ion and get overwhelmed or blown.

Plus what the LL site says: "Do not use rechargeable batteries" it makes me apprehensive.

I do not want to blow up my favourite and most expensive flashlight.


Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 26,065 Plumbers Know Their Crap!!
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 02:57:36 PM »
Here's a couple pics, those three on the top are my fav, all three are led, as you can see the two are cr123, I just got tired of buying batteries, I bought rechargable ones but I used them once and one normal bulb went pop, so didn't even try them on an led cause I didn't have any extra bulbs and was nervice to have any pop. The other one is just a simple single AA, but the bulb will take over 4v so I put a 14500 in, and lumen, omg can I say BRIGHT! They say 400-600, but that's gotta be bs, maybe 200-300. I love it, but I've been thinking of those single rechargables that replace the two cr123's (the 18650?) and changing out the bodies on the two surefires, go with the plastic to lose some weight but then I'd be cutting back to only like 120lm, so idk, smaller better?
JR
Oops, my pad closed before I could post the pic..
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 03:06:00 PM by MadPlumbarian »

"The-Mad-Plumbarian" The Punisher Of Pipes!!! JR
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,232 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 03:06:07 PM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

 :bump:

No idea, but I suspect it is more likely with you as part of the equation  :P

So funny... HA HA  :twak:

For CR123 its a bit tricky as a single use Lithium cell is 3.0v and then there are two rechargeable options that may or may not work.
Most CR123 circuits cannot handle the 4.2v of the Li-ion and get overwhelmed or blown.

Plus what the LL site says: "Do not use rechargeable batteries" it makes me apprehensive.

I do not want to blow up my favourite and most expensive flashlight.



There will be other giveaways. >:D We might still have one or two F1s left. Not sure as I was away and zoid finished up the giveaways this year.


Do the testing for us. :pok:


 :whistle:
No Life Club Posts: 1,405 woes oke
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2015, 06:32:36 PM »
The LL F1 finishes a primary Lithium cell in around 30 minutes, Id hate to see a LiFePO4.
But it should not fry the light.
No Life Club Posts: 1,405 woes oke
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2015, 06:35:50 PM »
See this review, the guy tested Lithium Phosphate cells.


http://www.led-resource.com/2013/04/led-lenser-f1-review/
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 38,370
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2015, 12:11:35 PM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

 :bump:

No idea, but I suspect it is more likely with you as part of the equation  :P

So funny... HA HA  :twak:

For CR123 its a bit tricky as a single use Lithium cell is 3.0v and then there are two rechargeable options that may or may not work.
Most CR123 circuits cannot handle the 4.2v of the Li-ion and get overwhelmed or blown.

Plus what the LL site says: "Do not use rechargeable batteries" it makes me apprehensive.

I do not want to blow up my favourite and most expensive flashlight.



There will be other giveaways. >:D We might still have one or two F1s left. Not sure as I was away and zoid finished up the giveaways this year.


Do the (Image removed from quote.) testing for us. :pok:


 :whistle:

I may have gone a little crazy.   :whistle:
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,232 I may get older but I refuse to grow up.
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2015, 01:16:43 PM »
Out of topic.

Thinking of putting a rechargeable in my Led Lenser F1. Do you think it will go boom?  :think:

 :bump:

No idea, but I suspect it is more likely with you as part of the equation  :P

So funny... HA HA  :twak:

For CR123 its a bit tricky as a single use Lithium cell is 3.0v and then there are two rechargeable options that may or may not work.
Most CR123 circuits cannot handle the 4.2v of the Li-ion and get overwhelmed or blown.

Plus what the LL site says: "Do not use rechargeable batteries" it makes me apprehensive.

I do not want to blow up my favourite and most expensive flashlight.



There will be other giveaways. >:D We might still have one or two F1s left. Not sure as I was away and zoid finished up the giveaways this year.


Do the (Image removed from quote.) testing for us. :pok:


 :whistle:

I may have gone a little crazy.   :whistle:
As long as you didn't give away Kirky, it's all good. ;)


Hm, should we do a Kirky giveway? :think:

Would anyone want him? What would the shipping cost be?
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,458 Gone

dks cy

********* *
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2015, 01:20:00 PM »
Just give kirky a map and he will find you.... No shipping needed

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,034
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2015, 03:35:44 AM »
I would say get a pila charger. It has protection built in and won't charge a bad cell. I ONLY buy AW batteries. If your worried about over discharging lithium batteries get ones that a circuit protection in it. As far as the lights go I would say check with the manufacturer to make sure. I have been using the same batteries I bought over 4 years ago. I bought around 8 at that time. All in all I paid around $100 for all of those, including the charger. I have charged them all at least 50 times a piece. If you had bought standard cells it would have cost you around $1200 for the cells. 
No Life Club Posts: 3,273 One Day Closer To Death
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2015, 08:44:16 AM »
If you live in USA, buy Lion's from a USA dealer. I have ordered some from chinese sites and they never show up, I think theres some lithium restrictions when importing so some postal worker gets to keep them lol. I usually get mine from battery junction these days.

BB :B:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,418
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 06:36:29 AM »
What is a good place to buy li ion batteries?

I want some of the CR 123 size and AA size for my V11R.

Leatherman:
Wave, Surge, Skeletool, PST I,  Squirt S4, Micra, Rebar,

Victorinox:
Explorer, Super Tinker, CyberTool, Yeoman, Champion Plus, Red Shield Syph Custom, Pioneer, Ranger, Workchamp, Classic, Vagabond, Swisschamp, OH GAK

Wenger:
Handyman, Pocket Tool Chest

Spyderco:
Southard, Dragonfly 2, Para Military 2, Native Tan, Sage 3, Endura, Delica, Manix 2, Military
No Life Club Posts: 3,273 One Day Closer To Death
Re: rechargable battery guidance please
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2015, 06:43:52 AM »
by AA size do you mean 14500 Lion?

I like batteryjunction.com decent prices and 5% off with code

BB :B:

 

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