Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars

[ThePeacent]

Welcome to the boards five.   

Thank you Pablo. I poke around a couple other blade or edge forums and I'm looking forward to learning here. I like the vibe already!

Good vibes all around,  !

[noah]

Pretty intense.  I dont know the answer for you but this is worth watching. 
https://youtu.be/q3_HEKMgqbE

Adam did a Reddit AMA sometime after that episode aired which tells the parts of that story that didn't make the original video. A few years old, so some of you may already have seen it (starts about 40 seconds in).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-eK_cpTsOw

[Aloha]

Thanks for the video.  I think we can all agree that being submerged would be that last thing we'd want to happen.  I cannot recall if we determined the rate of success for those who have been submerged b .  In any case really scary.

[Lynn LeFey]

I had an 8-week open water scuba certification course. I did 'buddy-breathing' with a 12-year-old kid that panicked, and snatched the respirator out of my mouth before i got a breath in our sharing cycle. I had a moment of panic, but I calmed right down. I guess I MADE myself calm right down. That was in a clean, clear swimming pool. Things probably get a lot scarier in murky, and potentially frigid water.

Luckily I'm fat, so I'm well insulated, and bob like a cork.

Also... we have ResQMe's on our car keys.

[Etherealicer]

I had an 8-week open water scuba certification course. I did 'buddy-breathing' with a 12-year-old kid that panicked, and snatched the respirator out of my mouth before i got a breath in our sharing cycle. I had a moment of panic, but I calmed right down. I guess I MADE myself calm right down. That was in a clean, clear swimming pool. Things probably get a lot scarier in murky, and potentially frigid water.

Luckily I'm fat, so I'm well insulated, and bob like a cork.

Also... we have ResQMe's on our car keys.

Panic is a deciding factor in such situations. Or more precisely, the managing thereof.

Easier said than done.

[Mactire404]

I had an 8-week open water scuba certification course. I did 'buddy-breathing' with a 12-year-old kid that panicked, and snatched the respirator out of my mouth before i got a breath in our sharing cycle. I had a moment of panic, but I calmed right down. I guess I MADE myself calm right down. That was in a clean, clear swimming pool. Things probably get a lot scarier in murky, and potentially frigid water.

Luckily I'm fat, so I'm well insulated, and bob like a cork.

Also... we have ResQMe's on our car keys.

You hit the nail on it's head I think. You MADE yourself calm right down.
I once got my respirator jerked from my mouth by someone who panicked (he lost his own mouthpiece). I must have inhaled out of a bad reflex because I had a mouth full of water and was starting to cough.
At that moment you need to realize that there are steps to take before you can breathe again. This takes control. As you said, you MAKE yourself calm.
It was a real eyeopener, recognizing the beginning of panic and then managing it.

[Don Pablo]

I heard you can administer a sharp slap to a panicking person to make them regain their senses. Probably doesn't work underwater, but just sayin'. 

[Mechanickal]

I heard you can administer a sharp slap to a panicking person to make them regain their senses. Probably doesn't work underwater, but just sayin'. 

I twaked you alot here on MTO and there's still no sense in you

[eamo]

I heard you can administer a sharp slap to a panicking person to make them regain their senses. Probably doesn't work underwater, but just sayin'. 

you mean like this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc

[Syncop8r]

A woman trapped with her two sons in a car after a dramatic crash managed to cut her seatbelt, smash a window and free them all - thanks to a low-cost rescue tool.

The Warkworth woman, identified only by her first name Mel, said the rescue could not have happened without the Resqme device she carries on her keyring - which includes a blade and a spring-loaded spike to break side windows.

Now she is encouraging others to be prepared in case of an emergency...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115079612/dramatic-car-crash-in-warkworth-ends-happily-thanks-to-lowcost-resqme-tool

Police are getting new tools to save them vital seconds in life-and-death rescues.

The change was prompted by the rescue of a woman from a sinking car in Auckland. The two officers involved had to ask a Fairfax photographer to pass them a rock after they failed to smash the car windows with their batons.

A total of 7900 "Resqme" spring-loaded glass-breaking tools, costing only $10 each, will now be issued to frontline officers nationwide. They can be attached by a keyring to the officers' belts.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71190808/

[Mactire404]

Cool article.
I've used mine once on an old car door and it's an instant exit.
Mine is on my carkeys and I have a second one in my pack because public transportation does not offer window breakers anymore.

The resQme is cheap and effective.I wouldn't wan to miss my resquetool, but would not want to miss my resQme either.

[Aloha]

I recall a conversation about the laminate windows in vehicles?  While the spring loaded device works well, I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle, I recall it may not be effective on laminate glass? 

FMVSS 226 occupant ejection mitigation requiring laminated side glass in all 2017 vehicles ( from net ). 

[Etherealicer]

I recall a conversation about the laminate windows in vehicles?  While the spring loaded device works well, I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle, I recall it may not be effective on laminate glass? 

FMVSS 226 occupant ejection mitigation requiring laminated side glass in all 2017 vehicles ( from net ).

it really pays to figure out what kind of glass was used in your car (especially outside of the US, where there is no regulation (yet)).

ResqMe has a good video on that topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZokI0UrHI&t=7s

[cody6268]

it really pays to figure out what kind of glass was used in your car (especially outside of the US, where there is no regulation (yet)).

ResqMe has a good video on that topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZokI0UrHI&t=7s

Soo; that means the 2015 Ford Escape (basically a Kuga for those of you outside of NA) my folks have has laminated glass. So, guess that means I'll need to pick up a Rescue Tool.

[Aloha]

You might want to double check. I believe the window will be marked "laminated".  Also you can check the top edge and see where the glass is laminated.   

[Etherealicer]

Soo; that means the 2015 Ford Escape (basically a Kuga for those of you outside of NA) my folks have has laminated glass. So, guess that means I'll need to pick up a Rescue Tool.

And gloves...
Depending on your physical abilities, you might be better off pushing the front windshield out with your legs, rather than cutting the window open with the Rescue Tool. Though it seems to be though too (I have seen a video of a girl doing it, more flexibility, less strength, but I can't find it presently).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7ZBw8E_ms

[Aloha]

Since the thread is about Submerged/Flooded vehicle I'm afraid time is of essence.  Getting out of the vehicle quickly is going to be rather tricky.  Not sure kicking out windshield would be very effective or possible.     

As to what tools in an accident to assist you or others not submerged or flooded?  Depending on the situation time may still be a factor.  If vehicle is on fire for example.  I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle. I also have gloves at the ready.   The idea of a submerged vehicle really scares me whether me or someone I am trying to help. 

 

[Etherealicer]

Since the thread is about Submerged/Flooded vehicle I'm afraid time is of essence.  Getting out of the vehicle quickly is going to be rather tricky.  Not sure kicking out windshield would be very effective or possible.     

As to what tools in an accident to assist you or others not submerged or flooded?  Depending on the situation time may still be a factor.  If vehicle is on fire for example.  I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle. I also have gloves at the ready.   The idea of a submerged vehicle really scares me whether me or someone I am trying to help.

Spring loaded is clearly your best option if you have tempered side windows... it is useless if you have laminated side windows.

Alternatives are:
- Pushing out the windshield with your legs (takes strength and a degree of flexibility)
- Disc saw (exhausting, slow)
- Big axe (needs room to operate, heavy)
- Get a powered glass cutter (e.g. THE RIPPER) (higher cost / maintenance)
- anything else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MAaOEwPrXbA

[Aloha]

Anything needing a battery will require keeping an eye on to keep charged  .  I keep coming back to submerged and with that the options are very limited I think.  Getting out of the vehicle will be challenging to say the least.  We saw myth busters and he had a heck of a time.  I think the verdict was not good. 

Now as for helping someone, I think "easy" is best.  Watching the video of the Victorinox Rescue Tool handle that windshield was promising even for someone hurried.  Not much help if that person is you in the submerged car sadly.   

[ThePeacent]

- anything else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MAaOEwPrXbA

a loaded handgun 

[Etherealicer]

a loaded handgun 

If my understanding is correct then that won't work... would create a small hole and some spider web, but it would still be in place and not shatter. After all if you take thick enough laminated glass it is what is called "bullet proof glass" (correct would be bullet resistant).

[Mactire404]

I recall a conversation about the laminate windows in vehicles?  While the spring loaded device works well, I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle, I recall it may not be effective on laminate glass? 

FMVSS 226 occupant ejection mitigation requiring laminated side glass in all 2017 vehicles ( from net ).

This is a serious consideration.
I once had a talk with a fireman that just returned from a scene with a crashed Seat. The car was front first in a ditch with water and rubble. Because if the laminated and plastic windows they could not use a window smasher and had to cut open the car with one of these...

Where this takes the firemen an unnecesary long time to get in a vehicle it also means that the driver isn't always able to get out of a car.
Keep this in mind.

By the way, the ResqueTool has a window saw. This is for cutting laminated front windows.

[cody6268]

This is a serious consideration.
I once had a talk with a fireman that just returned from a scene with a crashed Seat. The car was front first in a ditch with water and rubble. Because if the laminated and plastic windows they could not use a window smasher and had to cut open the car with one of these...
(Image removed from quote.)
Where this takes the firemen an unnecesary long time to get in a vehicle it also means that the driver isn't always able to get out of a car.
Keep this in mind.

By the way, the ResqueTool has a window saw. This is for cutting laminated front windows.

And today's cars are tough to access even using hydraulic rescue equipment. Today's hydraulic rescue tools are designed to pry and cut today's modern automotive materials (such as boron steel). Older sets aren't engineered to handle these materials and design, but departments can't afford them, and in some cases, are stuck with first generation sets from the '70s and '80s.  Jaws of Life/Hydraulic Rescue sets these days are in the  $50,000 range, and most departments simply can't afford that. Around here, funding exists, but is going to tourism and business ventures instead of where needed.I know of front line trucks that date to the '70s. My town's heavy rescue is close to 30 years old; and their crash truck 15.

[Mactire404]

And today's cars are tough to access even using hydraulic rescue equipment. Today's hydraulic rescue tools are designed to pry and cut today's modern automotive materials (such as boron steel). Older sets aren't engineered to handle these materials and design, but departments can't afford them, and in some cases, are stuck with first generation sets from the '70s and '80s.  Jaws of Life/Hydraulic Rescue sets these days are in the  $50,000 range, and most departments simply can't afford that. Around here, funding exists, but is going to tourism and business ventures instead of where needed.I know of front line trucks that date to the '70s. My town's heavy rescue is close to 30 years old; and their crash truck 15.

Also, cutting the beams (holding the roof) almost requires a EOD team with the high possibility of airbags in place. Cutting one can make them co pop, endangering the fireman or the passengers.
I don't envy firemen these days.

[Etherealicer]

Also, cutting the beams (holding the roof) almost requires a EOD team with the high possibility of airbags in place. Cutting one can make them co pop, endangering the fireman or the passengers.
I don't envy firemen these days.

Man I never envied people who have to go to accident sites... but I think I would prefer a slightly more difficult rescue of less injured person to the "good old days". Seriously, the improvement in structural integrity means the driver/passengers are less badly injured (less loss of limbs because the windows stay in place, less crushing as the whole carbine is stronger). It also means that if the heavy gear has to come out, the airbags have already been deployed, so no danger there.
Furthermore it makes braking into cars and carjacking harder.