Police Need Smaller Surge

[ThundahBeagle]

...why?...

This isnt Adam-12, back when cops wore a short-sleeved shirt, a pair of handcuffs tucked through the belt, and a six-gun. The only two way radio was in the car, nobody had a bullet proof vest, etc...

Truth is, today's  police officers have more than enough metal around their middle, most of which is, in fact, for very specific tasks. Plus what's in the pockets.

A two way radio for communications. Handgun. Extra rounds in the form of magazines. Flashlight. Handcuffs and key. Often a backup pair of cuffs. A baton of various sorts. Mace. Possibly a stun gun. Thats just the stuff on the belt. The belt itself and the holsters for each of those items is each also substantial. Two pens, a notebook. The ballistic vest...maybe a rescue knife of some sort. And now, a camera on the chest.

Yeah... Go ahead and add a pair of plyers for some God forsaken reason.

Some may choose to carry one more item, most will not, unless it is mandatory. Understandably so.

They already have all of the very specialized tools they need. Maybe too many.

[WoodsDuck]

...why?...

This isnt Adam-12, back when cops wore a short-sleeved shirt, a pair of handcuffs tucked through the belt, and a six-gun. The only two way radio was in the car, nobody had a bullet proof vest, etc...

Truth is, today's  police officers have more than enough metal around their middle, most of which is, in fact, for very specific tasks. Plus what's in the pockets.

A two way radio for communications. Handgun. Extra rounds in the form of magazines. Flashlight. Handcuffs and key. Often a backup pair of cuffs. A baton of various sorts. Mace. Possibly a stun gun. Thats just the stuff on the belt. The belt itself and the holsters for each of those items is each also substantial. Two pens, a notebook. The ballistic vest...maybe a rescue knife of some sort. And now, a camera on the chest.

Yeah... Go ahead and add a pair of plyers for some God forsaken reason.

Some may choose to carry one more item, most will not, unless it is mandatory. Understandably so.

They already have all of the very specialized tools they need. Maybe too many.

But think of what they can accomplish with the proper training.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,66097.0.html

[Lynn LeFey]

I am personally of the opinion that if you say 'X tool is great if you just change Y, and Z, and A, and..." ... then it's not the tool you're looking for.

The tool you're ACTUALLY looking for is probably a pocket powerplier. Then just PUT whatever tools you want in the frame. The pocket powerplier is also pretty lightweight and handy, with SOG's compound leverage plier head. There are a lot of things I don't like about SOG MTs, but that basic frame, with the option to easily mod it to whatever tool loadout you want is, I think, the best solution for extremely specific job needs.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

[Rico-2]

The new SOG PowerPint multi-tool seems to be suitable for police-officers, for many reasons. It is pretty light-weight, and has a lot of relevant options for police-work. Specs: https://www.sogknives.com/type/multi-tools/powerpint.html

This SOG PowerPint can be modified after purchase, to be more light-weight for police-work.
This can be done as follows:
- Removing the scissors, awl, can-opener and bottle-opener, making room to carry a few screw-bits for the bit-driver, if wanted.
- The pliers and both knife-blades can be sawed in half.
- Small holes can be drilled in the frame, for extra weight-reduction, and to make a lanyard-hole.
- The belt-clip can be removed.
Of course any modification will end the warranty.

[gregpost]

Police are people, they all have different preferences and like and dislikes. There will never be any perfect Multitool for police, just like there isn't a perfect firearm for all law enforcement. There is what is issued and what is approved for carry.

If you would have said design the ultimate multitool for first repsonders and what do you think it would have, this thread would have made more sense.

It all sounds a bit "mall ninja" to be honest.

[Fuzzbucket]

...why?...

This isnt Adam-12, back when cops wore a short-sleeved shirt, a pair of handcuffs tucked through the belt, and a six-gun. The only two way radio was in the car, nobody had a bullet proof vest, etc...

Truth is, today's  police officers have more than enough metal around their middle, most of which is, in fact, for very specific tasks. Plus what's in the pockets.

A two way radio for communications. Handgun. Extra rounds in the form of magazines. Flashlight. Handcuffs and key. Often a backup pair of cuffs. A baton of various sorts. Mace. Possibly a stun gun. Thats just the stuff on the belt. The belt itself and the holsters for each of those items is each also substantial. Two pens, a notebook. The ballistic vest...maybe a rescue knife of some sort. And now, a camera on the chest.

Yeah... Go ahead and add a pair of plyers for some God forsaken reason.

Some may choose to carry one more item, most will not, unless it is mandatory. Understandably so.

They already have all of the very specialized tools they need. Maybe too many.

But think of what they can accomplish with the proper training.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,66097.0.html

Just had a quick look...  Jesus wept.

[Don Pablo]

It might be just me, but I’m not sure that a multitool is that important to the average police officer.... 
But then they aren’t that important to me either... 

[Lynn LeFey]

It might be just me, but I’m not sure that a multitool is that important to the average police officer.... 
But then they aren’t that important to me either... 

Despite what some folks might think of police, there is a fair amount of the job that is just solving basic problems (often created by extraordinarily stupid people). Having a basic tool set on hand can be extremely useful.

Someone dropped their keys down a storm drain, and you have to make a tool to fish them out. Kid is on playground equipment with their jacket caught in the S-hook of a swing, and you have to get them free. Sure, you can say police shouldn't be called for such things, but they DO get called for such things, or just happen to be passing by.

So, yeah, I can see it being useful. My brother (when he was working as an officer) carried trauma shears. If MTs had been as ubiquitous then as they are now, he'd have probably carried one.

[ThePeacent]

The new SOG PowerPint multi-tool seems to be suitable for police-officers, for many reasons. It is pretty light-weight, and has a lot of relevant options for police-work. Specs: https://www.sogknives.com/type/multi-tools/powerpint.html

This SOG PowerPint can be modified after purchase, to be more light-weight for police-work.
This can be done as follows:
- Removing the scissors, awl, can-opener and bottle-opener, making room to carry a few screw-bits for the bit-driver, if wanted.
- The pliers and both knife-blades can be sawed in half.
- Small holes can be drilled in the frame, for extra weight-reduction, and to make a lanyard-hole.
- The belt-clip can be removed.
Of course any modification will end the warranty.

and after all this you have a weak, unstable, and unwarranted tool impractical for most things I can think of, with an awkwardly placed lanyard, mutilated to take out the best of it and get closer to a typical cheap multitool limited in its functions, durability and versatility 

[Rico-2]

Police-officers could also use the light-weight Leatherman Squirt PS4 mini-multi-tool, plus a separate, cheap, metal, L-shaped bit-driver. Plus a separate set of regular 1/4 inch screw-bits. These items can be carried together in one MOLLE-pouch on their duty-belt or MOLLE-vest. Depending on the situation, the bit-set and L-shaped bit-driver can be left in the patrol-vehicle to save weight. 

Angled bit-driver (This one is very expensive, but they can be found for a few dollars.)
https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-DR-50-Twin-Wrench-Driver/dp/B001YHFQIY/?tag=toolguyd-20

Squirt PS4
https://www.leatherman.com/squirt-ps4-22.html

[Rico-2]

Police-officers could also use the light-weight Leatherman Squirt PS4 mini-multi-tool, plus a separate, cheap, metal, L-shaped bit-driver. Plus a separate set of regular 1/4 inch screw-bits. These items can be carried together in one MOLLE-pouch on their duty-belt or MOLLE-vest. Depending on the situation, the bit-set and L-shaped bit-driver can be left in the patrol-vehicle to save weight. 

Angled bit-driver (This one is very expensive, but they can be found for a few dollars.)
https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-DR-50-Twin-Wrench-Driver/dp/B001YHFQIY/?tag=toolguyd-20

Squirt PS4
https://www.leatherman.com/squirt-ps4-22.html

A separate L-shaped bit-driver is very sturdy, can be used with force and precision, and can reach in narrow, deep holes.

The cheaper competitor of the Leatherman Squirt PS4 mini-multi-tool is the Gerber Dime. On the internet you can find many discussions and video's about the comparison: Squirt PS4 vs Gerber Dime.

[ThundahBeagle]

Police-officers could also use the light-weight Leatherman Squirt PS4 mini-multi-tool, plus a separate, cheap, metal, L-shaped bit-driver. Plus a separate set of regular 1/4 inch screw-bits. These items can be carried together in one MOLLE-pouch on their duty-belt or MOLLE-vest. Depending on the situation, the bit-set and L-shaped bit-driver can be left in the patrol-vehicle to save weight. 

Angled bit-driver (This one is very expensive, but they can be found for a few dollars.)
https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-DR-50-Twin-Wrench-Driver/dp/B001YHFQIY/?tag=toolguyd-20

Squirt PS4
https://www.leatherman.com/squirt-ps4-22.html

A separate L-shaped bit-driver is very sturdy, can be used with force and precision, and can reach in narrow, deep holes.

The cheaper competitor of the Leatherman Squirt PS4 mini-multi-tool is the Gerber Dime. On the internet you can find many discussions and video's about the comparison: Squirt PS4 vs Gerber Dime.

Yes, Rico...
And no disrespect here, but I believe by that time, the police officer would just be called "mechanic."

I'm not against police carrying multitools. I carry a Rebar every day and would if I were a cop.

I do, and I'm NOT a cop. Why you insist on making this specifically about police, I don't know. These tools are good for anyone, but most choose not to carry.

Lynn is right in that police get calls for, or "on sight" some strange situations, and it would be handy for them to have a rescue blade on them. Having said that, they mostly drive cars, and can have a 100 piece Craftsman tool set in the trunk if they want. Plus, frankly, a lot of stupid stuff has nothing to do with the police...if your kid's head got stuck in a slatted chair, you got your saw or called the fire department.

No officer is going to carry much more crap on their belt than they already have to. And if they do, their mobility suffers.

The things you feel the police need training in...it's just life experience,  and you can't train for that. That's part of why I believe one shouldn't be allowed to be a policeman until one is in their mid 30'S and had at least two jobs OUTSIDE of the law enforcement field. To know something about life before you have authority to question anyone about anything

[Rico-2]

Stronger police-officers could consider carrying the popular medium-weight Leatherman Wave + (8.5 oz). That has a bit-driver for the thin Leatherman screw-bits.

https://www.leatherman.com/wave-10.html?dwvar_10_color=10&cgid=multi-tools#prefn1=3&expanded=toolsincluded&prefv1=true&start=1

Or they could think of the Leatherman Crunch (6.9 oz). That multi-tool has a bit-driver for regular 1/4 inch screw-bits. It has unique lock-pliers, but no one-hand opening.

https://www.leatherman.com/crunch-1.html?cgid=multi-tools#prefn1=3&expanded=toolsincluded&prefv1=true&start=1

[Rico-2]

That's part of why I believe one shouldn't be allowed to be a policeman until one is in their mid 30'S and had at least two jobs OUTSIDE of the law enforcement field. To know something about life before you have authority to question anyone about anything.

True, but the younger boys run a bit faster than the 40+ group, in foot-pursuit.

[ironraven]

At this point, there are only two possibilities.

One, Rico is trying and failing to run a scam. Last year when he started this spammage we tried to find out what he is, and who he's with- secret squirrel song and dance worthy of a 30 year old private trying to pick up drunk co-eds by pretending to be some kind of special operator was the answer we got back. If he was really in the community, he'd give a straight answer as to his background. I think he's either try to data mine or sell some miracle solution in search of a problem that is so bad it couldn't buy column space in Mad Magazine, much less Solder of Fortune.

Or, two, he's completely smurfing nuts and he's on some kind of messianic crusade.

Either way, I'm calling BS. Again. And asking the mods to please consider this insanity to be spam. He's pitching something and sucking hard.

[Glockfan]

 

At this point, there are only two possibilities.

One, Rico is trying and failing to run a scam. Last year when he started this spammage we tried to find out what he is, and who he's with- secret squirrel song and dance worthy of a 30 year old private trying to pick up drunk co-eds by pretending to be some kind of special operator was the answer we got back. If he was really in the community, he'd give a straight answer as to his background. I think he's either try to data mine or sell some miracle solution in search of a problem that is so bad it couldn't buy column space in Mad Magazine, much less Solder of Fortune.

Or, two, he's completely smurfing nuts and he's on some kind of messianic crusade.

Either way, I'm calling BS. Again. And asking the mods to please consider this insanity to be spam. He's pitching something and sucking hard.

   agreed

And special operator??  Lol. First I’ve heard of that. I would have to think that special forces would be a little quicker on decision making.

[kaput]

His posts are as mysterious as his avatar is... 

[ReamerPunch]

Are police officers really carrying the absolute limit of gear weight?
Is a Wave really the breaking point? The Wave weighs 8.5 oz I think. Is that minuscule amount really going to hinder a fit, healthy police officer from running at his top speed?

If I were in the police force, I imagine I'd go with either a Wave or Charge. It's not popular because it's pretty. It's popular because it works. oho blades, saw and file, good pliers, screwdrivers.
I certainly would not want a light duty MT like the powerpint, which was mutilated out of it capabilities and warranty.

[hiraethus]

And asking the mods to please consider this insanity to be spam. He's pitching something and sucking hard.

Not spam, just odd.  Nothing wrong with that.  In two years he's not tried to sell anything, and isn't convincing anyone about the need for whatever it it is he's going on about.  But there's room for everyone here.

[ThePeacent]

I go for messianic task and illuminating mission, obsessive self-centered behavior, ignorance of input or opinions about the own already fixed concepts, irrational and sudden change of ideas bordering multiple personality disorder and a few other issues, 

but fun nonetheless, we all need some laughs from time to time   

[Fuzzbucket]

I go for messianic task and illuminating mission, obsessive self-centered behavior, ignorance of input or opinions about the own already fixed concepts, irrational and sudden change of ideas bordering multiple personality disorder and a few other issues, 

but fun nonetheless, we all need some laughs from time to time   

Eer, watch it, I tick loads of those!!!  

[lister]

A thing to consider: when a group of odd people calls you odd because of a range of odd behaviours that group considers quite normal you might in fact be very odd indeed! 

[Aloha]

I recently saw an episode of Blue Bloods where Jamie handed a MT to a fellow officer.  It looked like a Gerber Suspension.   

Rico, I think any MT you are considering or thinking about needs to be a stock MT.  Any modifications would be solely to the discretion of the user. 

[Rico-2]

Are police officers really carrying the absolute limit of gear weight?
Is a Wave really the breaking point? The Wave weighs 8.5 oz I think. Is that minuscule amount really going to hinder a fit, healthy police officer from running at his top speed?

If I were in the police force, I imagine I'd go with either a Wave or Charge. It's not popular because it's pretty. It's popular because it works. oho blades, saw and file, good pliers, screwdrivers.
I certainly would not want a light duty MT like the powerpint, which was mutilated out of it capabilities and warranty.

Some police-officers are top-fit, and physically strong. But esp. older officers can suffer from temporary or chronically medical ailments or trauma. Symptoms can be for example pain in the back or knees, etc. That's one of the reasons, why heavier multi-tools like the Leatherman Wave and Charge are not suitable for all officers IMO, although they offer good quality and functionality. Same goes for the heavier multi-tools form Gerber, SOG, Victorinox, etc.

[ReamerPunch]

Are police officers really carrying the absolute limit of gear weight?
Is a Wave really the breaking point? The Wave weighs 8.5 oz I think. Is that minuscule amount really going to hinder a fit, healthy police officer from running at his top speed?

If I were in the police force, I imagine I'd go with either a Wave or Charge. It's not popular because it's pretty. It's popular because it works. oho blades, saw and file, good pliers, screwdrivers.
I certainly would not want a light duty MT like the powerpint, which was mutilated out of it capabilities and warranty.

Some police-officers are top-fit, and physically strong. But esp. older officers can suffer from temporary or chronically medical ailments or trauma. Symptoms can be for example pain in the back or knees, etc. That's one of the reasons, why heavier multi-tools like the Leatherman Wave and Charge are not suitable for all officers IMO, although they offer good quality and functionality. Same goes for the heavier multi-tools form Gerber, SOG, Victorinox, etc.

Police officers close to retirement are assigned desk jobs, and deal with office work. Rarely are they in the field, chasing after bad guys. If a police officer is unable to run, jump over fences etc already, having a lighter multi-tool instead of a heavy one will not help at all. They are not the ones that will be helping people out of a wreckage, or cutting wire fences to get to wherever they need to get. Fit, healthy, young police officers who are expected to be at good physical condition, will have no problem carrying the Leatherman Wave, or any medium duty multi-tool.

I have never seen a police officer here that was not fit, and the oldest would be probably forty years old, and healthy, well built, very capable of performing in the field, be it running, climbing, defending themselves etc.

[ReamerPunch]

I see no reason to be rude to Rico or any other member here. He is obviously concerned, and has not violated any forum rules as far as I am aware of.

[Poncho65]

I see no reason to be rude to Rico or any other member here. He is obviously concerned, and has not violated any forum rules as far as I am aware of.

+1

He might have been excentric a time or so but the topic is good for discussion

[kaput]

I think the answer is out there, or been answered a time or two already.

Has he answered whether indeed he is a police officer or not? I have forgotten

In any case, the answer might be as simple as different strokes for different folks. Or as difficult as maybe they don't have the perfect multitool for law enforcement. I think its both.

[Lynn LeFey]

To make a home for discussion about the PowerPint that is more reasonable than in the middle of a thread about the Surge, in the Leatherman forum, I made it it's own thread in the SOG forum.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76874.0.html

[ThundahBeagle]

That's part of why I believe one shouldn't be allowed to be a policeman until one is in their mid 30'S and had at least two jobs OUTSIDE of the law enforcement field. To know something about life before you have authority to question anyone about anything.

True, but the younger boys run a bit faster than the 40+ group, in foot-pursuit.

Who needs foot pursuit? We have two way radios so we can call one another (the IS more than one police officer in town...?) and head the runner off at the pass.

Pursuit causes pandemonium. It is actually very rare a police officer really needs to chase someone on foot. Stay in shape, by all means, but work smarter, not harder.

To much rah rah rah and not enough use of grey matter in many police departments if you ask me