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Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison 899

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« on: June 28, 2018, 10:55:54 PM »
Recently I've been lucky to get hold of my Birth Year SAK, a 1971 Victorinox Soldier.

I was curious about the differences to the modern civil version Pioneer.

No keyring and a hollow rivet.



Looks the same here...



The Soldier has a lesser pronounced pattern on the Alox scales...



The opener layer seems thicker, sturdier.
And the blade too.



So what are the measurements then?

                              71 Soldier    2017 Pioneer

Weight                  74 g                  70 g

Bottle-opener      2.675                2.27

Can-opener          2.24                  2.17

Blade tang           2.795                2.775

Awl                        1.69                  1.73

Scale to scale    11.55                11.62
(blade end)

Scale to scale    12.21                11.735
(awl end)

Ok, so only the bottle-opener of the' 71 Soldier appears to be noticeable thicker (by 0.5mm).

Because of that the '71 Soldier varies in width from one end to the other. It's over 0.5mm thicker on the bottle-opener end than on the other side as seen above.

Thinking about that, if the scales are straight then the bottle-opener or the awl shouldn't be flush with the scales inside, right?   :think:

And it appears so. Can you see it?



Otherwise the tools finish got less attention than the ones on the modern Pioneer. You can clearly see the cost reduction measures.

Bottle-opener





No notch for wire bending, but a sharpened edge for wire stripping. You can see it on this pic...



Can-opener





Springs and tangs...



But to be fair it doesn't affect the functionality at all. And all tools deploy smoothly and have a great (grrrreat) snap.




I hope this was interesting for some of you.

Matt
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 12:00:36 AM by MTMatt »

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,110 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 10:58:02 PM »
Very interesting.  :salute:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
No Life Club Posts: 3,195
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2018, 11:55:46 PM »
Interesting indeed! I will have to get a pioneer to compare it to my Wenger 88

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 12:03:22 AM »
I've added a note and pic for the bottle-opener  :salute: Forgot to mention the wire stripper stuff...

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 12:04:26 AM »
Interesting indeed! I will have to get a pioneer to compare it to my Wenger 88

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

That's a brilliant idea  :like:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2018, 12:05:04 AM »
Very interesting.  :salute:

At your service  :salute:

Formerly known as MTMatt
No Life Club Posts: 2,469 I Tool Therefore I Am
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2018, 12:59:34 AM »
Congrats on getting your BYSAK, Matt! And this is very interesting post. Thanks!

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 10,150
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2018, 01:06:41 AM »
Nice comparison Matt! :like: :tu: :tu:
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2018, 01:17:02 AM »
Congrats on getting your BYSAK, Matt! And this is very interesting post. Thanks!

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

Cheers anOnemus   :cheers:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2018, 01:17:52 AM »
Nice comparison Matt! :like: :tu: :tu:

Glad you like it VICMAN  :salute:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,115 Bon Journee!!
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2018, 01:21:32 AM »
 :tu: Excellent Matt!

Barry
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2018, 01:33:34 AM »

Formerly known as MTMatt
No Life Club Posts: 1,348
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2018, 01:39:21 AM »
Interesting, I pulled out a '91 Soldier and a modern Pioneer and Grand Pappy's micrometer:


'91 Bottle Opener .104" Overall thickness .480"
Pioneer Bottle Opener .088"


'91 Can Opener .090" Overall thickness .460"
Pioneer Can Opener .088"


I can't see any gap on my '91

- Steve
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2018, 08:18:23 AM »
That's interesting SMiller.
80% of the time I cannot see the gap either, and I'm using a magnifier.
I needed​ like 30 tries and a mini tripod to make that pic.

They could also have changed​ the scales on yours on the inside at that spot  :think:

I wonder why the bottle-opener was made thicker?  :think:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Sr. Member Posts: 339 Carpe omnia cultris
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2018, 06:53:34 PM »
Very cool, Matt!  I've got a '79 Soldier (my birth year) and you're right about the tools not being finished as nicely as on the modern Pioneers.  Those old Soldiers are nevertheless extremely rugged, well-made knives that should last multiple lifetimes.

Congrats on scoring your BYSAK!

(\(\                                                                                ⁁ -----,__
( -.-)  o˫▄▄═ ‑‑‑-----------------------------------     _____⁁[_____}═══════
0(")(")    /|\                                                       /_____________\
"""""""""""""""""""I                                                ',(o)(o)(o)(o)(o),'
No Life Club Posts: 1,348
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2018, 07:29:44 PM »
I wonder why the bottle-opener was made thicker?  :think:
Possibly because that's the main pry tool on a SAK.

- Steve
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2018, 09:28:15 PM »
Very cool, Matt!  I've got a '79 Soldier (my birth year) and you're right about the tools not being finished as nicely as on the modern Pioneers.  Those old Soldiers are nevertheless extremely rugged, well-made knives that should last multiple lifetimes.

Congrats on scoring your BYSAK!

I have no doubt  :D
Thanks TennTexan  :cheers:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2018, 09:28:56 PM »
I wonder why the bottle-opener was made thicker?  :think:
Possibly because that's the main pry tool on a SAK.

That's true  :salute:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,110 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2018, 08:13:30 AM »

                              71 Soldier    2017 Pioneer

Weight                  74 g                  70 g

Bottle-opener      2.675                2.27

Can-opener          2.24                  2.17

Blade tang           2.795                2.775

Awl                        1.69                  1.73

Scale to scale    11.55                11.62
(blade end)

Scale to scale    12.21                11.735
(awl end)

Ok, so only the bottle-opener of the' 71 Soldier appears to be noticeable thicker (by 0.5mm).

Because of that the '71 Soldier varies in width from one end to the other. It's over 0.5mm thicker on the bottle-opener end than on the other side as seen above.

Thinking about that, if the scales are straight then the bottle-opener or the awl shouldn't be flush with the scales inside, right?   :think:

And it appears so. Can you see it?

(Image removed from quote.)

I'm annoyed that the old soldiers apparently aren't the same thickness at each end.  :D That sounds like something I would do messing up a mod. :P

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
No Life Club Posts: 1,687
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2018, 01:30:53 PM »
Hey there, MTMatt,

I've been away from the forum and am just seeing this thread.  I wanted to thank you for posting it, congratulate you on your BYSAK, and compliment you on how cool your macrophotography is.  I have my own BYSAK coming and will check out these dimensions when it does. 

Again, congratulations and thanks for taking the time to post this!

Myron
No Life Club Posts: 1,246
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2018, 05:16:08 PM »
Great comparison Matt!

A couple things to note though:
 - The knife was in slightly used condition, which explains the tip of the cap-lifter being a bit rough. (Doesn't justify the burrs everywhere else though)
 - As some people pointed out, the cap-lifter can and is often used as a pry-tool. When a strong force is applied I feel the scale might bend out a little, which is what appears to have happened in your case. The scales are made of aluminum/aluminium after all, which is a soft metal. I've had many 93mm alox knives with the scales either bent out (due horizontal force being exerted on the tools) or in (after a fall or hits, preventing the tools from opening properly). You may be able to bend it back with a vice but you risk marking the scales or damaging their pattern.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2018, 08:53:34 PM »

                              71 Soldier    2017 Pioneer

Weight                  74 g                  70 g

Bottle-opener      2.675                2.27

Can-opener          2.24                  2.17

Blade tang           2.795                2.775

Awl                        1.69                  1.73

Scale to scale    11.55                11.62
(blade end)

Scale to scale    12.21                11.735
(awl end)

Ok, so only the bottle-opener of the' 71 Soldier appears to be noticeable thicker (by 0.5mm).

Because of that the '71 Soldier varies in width from one end to the other. It's over 0.5mm thicker on the bottle-opener end than on the other side as seen above.

Thinking about that, if the scales are straight then the bottle-opener or the awl shouldn't be flush with the scales inside, right?   :think:

And it appears so. Can you see it?

(Image removed from quote.)

I'm annoyed that the old soldiers apparently aren't the same thickness at each end.  :D That sounds like something I would do messing up a mod. :P

 :rofl:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2018, 08:54:35 PM »
Hey there, MTMatt,

I've been away from the forum and am just seeing this thread.  I wanted to thank you for posting it, congratulate you on your BYSAK, and compliment you on how cool your macrophotography is.  I have my own BYSAK coming and will check out these dimensions when it does. 

Again, congratulations and thanks for taking the time to post this!

Myron

Thanks a million Myron  :salute:

Formerly known as MTMatt
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2018, 08:58:49 PM »
Great comparison Matt!

A couple things to note though:
 - The knife was in slightly used condition, which explains the tip of the cap-lifter being a bit rough. (Doesn't justify the burrs everywhere else though)
 - As some people pointed out, the cap-lifter can and is often used as a pry-tool. When a strong force is applied I feel the scale might bend out a little, which is what appears to have happened in your case. The scales are made of aluminum/aluminium after all, which is a soft metal. I've had many 93mm alox knives with the scales either bent out (due horizontal force being exerted on the tools) or in (after a fall or hits, preventing the tools from opening properly). You may be able to bend it back with a vice but you risk marking the scales or damaging their pattern.

Thanks Syêm  :cheers:

But... as I said earlier, it's perfect   :D
I'm not complaining at all.

I just wanted to compare the old military version with the modern civil version.

So I just tried to find proof to my measurements.
I used a micrometer so I trust them.
To be honest I cannot see anything bent here...







The bottle opener does not show any usage at all...





I think on this picture you can see that it has some excess left from the casting process which extends out more than the hook part usually does. I think this might be quite a rare thing to see though.
There is nothing broken off, there is too much material



Greetings from Cork to Geneve  :salute:
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 09:00:41 PM by MTMatt »

Formerly known as MTMatt
No Life Club Posts: 1,246
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 10:51:07 PM »
Mmh... Actually, when you look at the 2nd pic of your first post we can see that the spring on the right of the soldier is not the same width on both sides. That's the opener layer.

To be more precise, the Awl/Blade back spring is the same width throughout whereas the cap lifter/can opener back spring is thinner on the can opener side.

On this pic, can opener on the left and blade on the right. Setting the caliper to the can opener width.


On this other pic, cap lifter on the right and awl on the left. Caliper still at the can opener width but in front of the cap lifter side of the spring.


That probably explains why the scales are both slightly bent outwards on the cap lifter/awl side. It's more obvious on the front scale

Than on the back scale... Although we can see some light shining through on the back too.



For the record that's a Elsener 69
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:53:08 PM by Syem »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,221
Re: Victorinox '71 Soldier to 2017 Pioneer comparison
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2018, 11:03:58 PM »
Oh...hey.. that confirms it  :salute:

Thanks for the great pics too  :like:

Formerly known as MTMatt

 

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