Been doing some work in the Wiki

[Max Stone]

I plan to begin working on the incomplete "Tang Stamp" page https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Tang+Stamp+Guide

The Wiki deserves a good guide as a reference to this important SAK element, so I welcome input and comment from all contributors.

Before I start, does everyone agree that we should continue with the guide separated by SAK size, as it is now? This seems sensible, as it follows the indexing we use for the rest of the Wiki. Some of the missing sizes will need adding, and I may need image and info contributions.

The table format will need updating; the blank third column (Earliest Date) can be dropped as the timeframe will be listed in the notes column. I think it's OK to continue with the table format for each SAK size, as it's easy to build this out for each tang stamp style, and it locks the text to the images?

We will also need to agree on dates/date ranges to list, as these are often uncertain.

(edit: this is obviously a potential rabbit-hole of a topic, as there have been many different (and rare) stamps used since the beginning of Victorinox, so the update will be biased towards more recent SAKs where there is more reference material avalable).

[Reinier]

Added the Spirit MXBS

https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Spirit#Swisstool_Spirit_MXBS_3.0226.M3_

[Max Stone]

More specs at this Swiss site: https://www.ssz-equipment.ch/de/shop/victorinox+swiss+tool+spirit+mxbs~p852577?si=1&limit=15&nav=3%2C228&site=view&page=1&PageSpeed=noscript

[Reinier]

Good job on the tang stamp page Max

[Echotech]

Good job on the tang stamp page Max

:Iagree: thanks very much for this, will be very useful to my collecting

[Max Stone]

  thanks guys, but maybe 2% done...just playing with the formatting and testing the table design. There is sooo much info on tang stamps, it's a real minefield. For the moment, I will focus on the 91mm main blade stamps only. I will definitely need to tap into the experts that have reference material and images for contribution. We have to be cautious not to step too far into this topic, as it's closely related to the broader topic of dating SAKs, and then we open up a real can of worms wrt other identifiers that we don't have in the Wiki. At some stage, someone may want to take up this challenge (how to date a SAK), but this would be a Wiki all on its own!

[Max Stone]

Parachute Knife added to 111mm series.

[kamakiri]

Added ‘US’ #5049 to the Master Craftsman page for the Space Shuttle used toward the introduction side in the early ‘80s. I personally have a copy that is c. ‘82/‘83. 

[NeleDo]

thanks guys, but maybe 2% done...just playing with the formatting and testing the table design. There is sooo much info on tang stamps, it's a real minefield. For the moment, I will focus on the 91mm main blade stamps only. I will definitely need to tap into the experts that have reference material and images for contribution. We have to be cautious not to step too far into this topic, as it's closely related to the broader topic of dating SAKs, and then we open up a real can of worms wrt other identifiers that we don't have in the Wiki. At some stage, someone may want to take up this challenge (how to date a SAK), but this would be a Wiki all on its own!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know, Officier Suisse with crossbow on reverse started in 1975, and there was a blank reverse tang in 1974-1975.

[Max Stone]

Thanks NeleDo  - I'm going to reset the table and focus just on the 91mm tang history to start with. Once I have a draft chronology, I will probably put it out as a new thread on the forum to get comments, so we can get broad agreement.

[Max Stone]

OK - first pass - won't add to Wiki until I get some comments here  Not sure if the blank reverse was only on Elinox in c. 73-75?

Common Main Blade Tang Stamps of Victorinox 91mm Range

Tang Obverse / Reverse Image   Date Range   Notes (images to follow)                           1957 - 1974       VSSR / Victoria OS (images to follow)                           1974-1986           VSSR small "V"/ OS + crossbow emblem (images to follow)                           1986 - 2005    VSSR large "V"/ OS + crossbow emblem (images to follow)                           2005 - 2009       VSS large "V"/ OS (images to follow)                           2009 - 2011    VSS larger Swiss Made, large "V"/ OS (images to follow)                           2011 -             VSS small "V"/ OS

Notes:
-   Tables shows main blade stamps of 91mm range from 1957 onwards
-   Production examples can be found outside the date ranges
-   Tang stamps for Economy line (Elinox) and Hoffritz SAKs are not listed
-   Thinner 2.0mm main blade tang thickness introduced in 2004

Nomenclature:
VSSR (4-lines)
   VICTORINOX
   SWITZERLAND
   STAINLESS
   ROSTFRE

VSS (3-lines)
   VICTORINOX
   SWISS MADE
   STAINLESS

OS = OFFICIER SUISSE

[NeleDo]

OK - first pass - won't add to Wiki until I get some comments here  Not sure if the blank reverse was only on Elinox in c. 73-75?

Common Main Blade Tang Stamps of Victorinox 91mm Range

Tang Obverse / Reverse Image   Date Range   Notes (images to follow)                           1957 - 1974       VSSR / Victoria OS (images to follow)                           1974-1986           VSSR small "V"/ OS + crossbow emblem (images to follow)                           1986 - 2005    VSSR large "V"/ OS + crossbow emblem (images to follow)                           2005 - 2009       VSS large "V"/ OS (images to follow)                           2009 - 2011    VSS larger Swiss Made, large "V"/ OS (images to follow)                           2011 -             VSS small "V"/ OS

Notes:
-   Tables shows main blade stamps of 91mm range from 1957 onwards
-   Production examples can be found outside the date ranges
-   Tang stamps for Economy line (Elinox) and Hoffritz SAKs are not listed
-   Thinner 2.0mm main blade tang thickness introduced in 2004

Nomenclature:
VSSR (4-lines)
   VICTORINOX
   SWITZERLAND
   STAINLESS
   ROSTFRE

VSS (3-lines)
   VICTORINOX
   SWISS MADE
   STAINLESS

OS = OFFICIER SUISSE

No, blank back stamp was also found in the main line, so I would just add:
1974-1975           VSSR small "V"/ <no stamp>
1975-1986           VSSR small "V"/ OS + crossbow emblem

[Max Stone]

 

[Max Stone]

I have taken pictures of 5 of the 91mm tang stamp types that I have, and added these to the Tang Stamp section on the Wiki in a new table format. 

To avoid early onset of Wiki madness, I have limited the table to the 91mm series. It we feel this table format and presentation is working, we can look at expanding to other series. But I do suggest that we keep the reference page to the more common stamps found on the main blade of the SAKs listed on the Wiki. If we start to list every rare stamp, the page will get impossibly long  . We can always daughter-off a page for rare stamps.

As dates are often a subject of much debate, please comment on the date ranges that I have used -- but we'll need some agreement on dates if any need changing.

I am also appealing for images of the tangs I am missing, the 74/75 with a blank reverse, and the VSS tang where the SWISS MADE is as wide as VICTORINOX. If someone wants to offer to take pictures of their references, please try to get a good contrast, and keep the text level in the pic, similar to the ones I added at the end of the table. 

[kamakiri]

No, blank back stamp was also found in the main line, so I would just add:
1974-1975           VSSR small "V"/ <no stamp>
1975-1986           VSSR small "V"/ OS + crossbow emblem

The blank rear stamp in main line is very well correlated to black double scissor spring use. But I do not think late ‘73 or early ‘76 should be excluded. Also pretty sure I have ID’d early OSCB rear stamps from ‘76.

1973-1976           VSSR small "V"/ <no stamp>
1976-1986           VSSR small "V"/ OS +

And I think ESSR/blank was used later into the ‘77/‘78 range. And that Elinox stamps should be on a separate table to avoid confusion.

I think this effort should have a separate thread to discuss and not make updates without broad input and verification from what can be found in posts like  in ulli’s thread and the vintage club thread. I think you’re okay with the more recent dates and they can be refined if or as needed.

But honestly, the ‘70s (and earlier) are a big cluster smurf that I am trying to explain with clear methods and examples. Without that, I think there will always be disagreement and confusion about dates therein.

And I’d suggest choosing a uniform color background (black or gray?) for the pics and to shoot them so the main reflection is ‘white’ and the text appears ‘black’ and not the other way around like they are.

[Reinier]

I would like to add a reference to those green EvoGrip scales. But we don't know the model (yet). What to do?

Also: https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=202 I guess that should be 91mm?

[Max Stone]

Thanks for your comments kamakiri - I've made these changes but will hold off on anything further. I'm now going to promote this topic to a new thread to encourage discussion and get broad agreement on needed changes. This Wiki page had no input since 2010 and was lacking all but a couple of reference dates and images, so this is just a start. I can retake the images to set a reference and standard for additional images. The Wiki is an open resource that needs the shared contribution from many knowledgeable forum members, so let's look forward to seeing how this develops.

[Huntsman]

I would like to add a reference to those green EvoGrip scales. But we don't know the model (yet). What to do?

Also: https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=202 I guess that should be 91mm?

Very nice scales indeed - The Wiki says the 23 is a five layer model - But that one looks more like eight - Maybe a naming error from Vic, or the scales are available on more models?     
Need to wait for more pics, or until someone gets one, I guess.

Yes 91mm - Thanks     and ...... corrected.
Max suggested we put it there, could also have gone in the Tools gallery I guess. 50:50!  - But I think he is/we are going to put a link from the Tools page to the SOS page anyway - So we are covered 

[Reinier]

The orienteering tool usee three springs I think. That would add two layers to the 23 config with the thinner compass. So perhaps it's an Evolution 23 with orienteering tool instead of compass

[Manorcom]

Any idea why the Wenger Camper 17 [1 17 92 300] is not mentioned?

[Huntsman]

Hi - Thanks for this

You are right - It does not seem to be in the Wiki

So it is an Evolution 17 - With a tent printed on the scales - Is that correct?   

If so we can put it as a variation of the 17 and in the alpha list

[Manorcom]

Yes it is. Let me know if you need a good picture. It is dark now but I could do one tomorrow.

But surely should have a reference under Camper?

Regards....Keith

[Manorcom]

I mean looking at the box it is a named model.

i.e.it is called "Camper 17"

[Huntsman]

Hi Manocrom,

Yes a photo would be great - I did find one on ebay - But one of our own is much more preferable and you would be credited as the author 
- I'll send you a PM with an email address

But surely should have a reference under Camper?

If so we can put it as a variation of the 17 and in the alpha list

My proposal would be that, as the toolset is the Evolution 17 toolset, the model is referenced on that page.
There would also be a line for the Camper model/variation in the main 85mm alpha page .... This one:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wenger+85mm

This is typically the approach we take when one model is essentially a variation of another model eg different scales
I made these changes - So please check them out
- There is a nice empty space at the bottom of the page where your picture could go!       

[Manorcom]

Huntsman, all looks good. I should add that the main blade is non-locking.

Please PM your email for the photo.

Regards...Keith

[pfrsantos]

Just found a Wenger Classic 10 I had statched away. Looked for it in the Wiki but there's only a mention of it in the Commander's page.

Shouldn't it be in the model list, even if with a mention of "see Commander"?

I can try to get some pics of it for the Wiki, if you want. Don't know if I can get some good enough, though...

 

I awlso noticed mine has "WENGER" embossed in the scale, near the scale cutout for the awl.

[Reinier]

The Classics are listed here in the 85mm model list: https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wenger+85mm
But indeed they are not featured on the 2 layer model page: https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wenger+85mm+2+Layer+Models

[pfrsantos]

(...)
But indeed they are not featured on the 2 layer model page: https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wenger+85mm+2+Layer+Models

Yup,that's the one I saw. It's a more common model than the Commander, isn't it? Maybe it should have its own page and pics.

 

[enki_ck]

Nick4 and Huntsman, you have PMs, regarding the X-mas series.

[Huntsman]

Hi Knights,

We have received a couple of nice images of the Christmas series from Marcos of the VicSpain youtube channel and updates on the released quantities.
The images are in the Christmas gallery and the numbers have been updated.
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Christmas+Series

As always - Let us know any comments, corrections, feedback etc etc

Thanks Marcos