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alternatives to carbide cutters 4949

Full Member Posts: 120

gav

***
alternatives to carbide cutters
« on: May 05, 2017, 11:40:03 PM »
has anyone found an alternative carbide cutter to the overpriced gerber ones?
ive searched the web and may have something.i have them ordered from ebay and when i get them and if they work i'll post pics.
what i can tell you is the product no.is
TCMT 110204 CARBIDE CUTTER
the size of these ones match the gerber ones.i paid 8 euros for a set of ten.
like i said,when they arrive i'll see if they fit.they should though.
it would cost me 50 euros to get 2 of the original gerber ones on amazon.
keep you posted.

gav.
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,620
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2017, 12:58:00 AM »
 :popcorn:
Full Member Posts: 120

gav

***
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2017, 01:44:12 AM »
just to add to it,carbide cutters are not designed to work in pliers.they cant crush objects,like say nails or steel pins,theyre too hard and brittle.they break.but theyre cheap to mass produce.
gerber could have used 154cm which will last but wheres the after sales money to be made in that.
better to sell a 100 dollar tool and then make lots on it for years to come.
its like car tires,you dont get rid of your car just because your tires go bald.you go buy a new set.
gerber took a chance on carbide cutters years ago knowing that owners of their multis would keep replacing the cutters because they love that particular tool and want to keep it working.
charge a high price for replacement parts and laugh all the way to the bank.
carbide cutter tips,which is what the gerber ones are,are alot cheaper than what gerber charge for their original replacement ones and you can buy them in packs of ten.
they must have made millions on cutters alone over the years.
clever.clever.clever.
Hero Member Posts: 647 High Octane Gasoline
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2017, 03:14:41 AM »
Are there any aftermarket steel replacements instead of carbide I wonder?

Last of the V8 Interceptors
Full Member Posts: 120

gav

***
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2017, 08:16:29 PM »
not that i know of or can find anywhere anyway.unless someone whos handy with steel fabricating has done it themselves at home.i am looking into it myself though.it depends on the costing.i cant ask a fella to make a pair.it would have to be 100 min to make it worth anyones while.
it would be nice though.stainless steel cutters on my center drive.that dont split at the sight of two copper wires.
No Life Club Posts: 1,057 Find me if you can...
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2017, 08:26:26 PM »
has anyone found an alternative carbide cutter to the overpriced gerber ones?
ive searched the web and may have something.i have them ordered from ebay and when i get them and if they work i'll post pics.
what i can tell you is the product no.is
TCMT 110204 CARBIDE CUTTER
the size of these ones match the gerber ones.i paid 8 euros for a set of ten.
like i said,when they arrive i'll see if they fit.they should though.
it would cost me 50 euros to get 2 of the original gerber ones on amazon.
keep you posted.

gav.

Not sure what the dimensions are of the Gerber's inserts, but you likely just bought the wrong stuff. Those are carbide inserts used in metal working like lathes or mills. I should have caught it right away with the TCMT, as CNC prgramming is my bread and butter. Those inserts are meant to cut by "shaving" material, not by shock impact like scissor cutting. Their edges are not sharp.

Also, those inserts are ISO standard. Each letter and number in the description has its own meaning. In case of TCMT 110204, it has an inscribed circle of 6.35mm (1/4"), 7-degree relief angle, and a counter sink hole. Dimensions of the TCMT 110204 can be found easily, like here: http://www.mitsubishicarbide.net/mhg/enuk/turning_inserts/no_srs/20044850. I think something like the Gerber inserts may have sharper than 7-degree relief angle.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 08:57:02 PM by chrono »
Full Member Posts: 120

gav

***
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2017, 08:51:27 PM »
i hear ya brother but the ones i bought had the closest measurments to my center drive ones.i know from researching it though that carbide cutter tips are no good in pliers.theyre not designed for it.
this whole rant comes from my own frustration at my own center drive cutters always breaking at simple jobs like changing a household plug or snipping 4mm wide cable ties.i've spent nearly as much on cutters as the tool cost me.these ebay cutters cant be any worse than the gerber ones.can they?
No Life Club Posts: 1,057 Find me if you can...
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2017, 09:00:57 PM »
i hear ya brother but the ones i bought had the closest measurments to my center drive ones.i know from researching it though that carbide cutter tips are no good in pliers.theyre not designed for it.
this whole rant comes from my own frustration at my own center drive cutters always breaking at simple jobs like changing a household plug or snipping 4mm wide cable ties.i've spent nearly as much on cutters as the tool cost me.these ebay cutters cant be any worse than the gerber ones.can they?

Theoretically, you can have those Gerber insert resharpened, though you need to find a CNC grind shop to do it properly. Plus it won't come cheap. 
Full Member Posts: 120

gav

***
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2017, 09:16:22 PM »
getting them resharpened isint the problem.they shatter.
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,620
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2017, 09:35:56 PM »
i hear ya brother but the ones i bought had the closest measurments to my center drive ones.i know from researching it though that carbide cutter tips are no good in pliers.theyre not designed for it.
this whole rant comes from my own frustration at my own center drive cutters always breaking at simple jobs like changing a household plug or snipping 4mm wide cable ties.i've spent nearly as much on cutters as the tool cost me.these ebay cutters cant be any worse than the gerber ones.can they?

I tried cutting cable ties once, it didn't work but at least they didn't shatter on me.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,63712.msg1201288.html#msg1201288
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 09:36:57 PM by zoidberg »
No Life Club Posts: 2,959
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2017, 10:06:30 PM »
Replaceable cutters in general are a bad idea.  Someone made a pair of linesman's pliers with them in the 50's or '60s and they weren't made long.   Just get a Pro Scout or older Gerber that doesn't have them.
No Life Club Posts: 1,057 Find me if you can...
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2017, 11:25:56 PM »
getting them resharpened isint the problem.they shatter.

Ok. I thought if the carbide was dull or slightly chipped... Also, after look at Zoid's thread, I am certain the TCMT inserts will not work, as the cutting surface is on the same side where the screw goes into. You have a 97-degree corner on each insert at the cutting area. I have never seen a cutter with an obtuse angle on the cutting blade

Replaceable cutters in general are a bad idea. 

It depends. If the function is only 10% of the cost of the tools, proper design of indexable/ replaceable tools are win/ win for both manufacturers and users. However, carbide should not be used in this cutting manner. Usually, when the hardness goes up, toughness goes down. I am actually interested in how Gerber came up with this brilliant idea  :think: (and got away with it)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 12:35:21 AM by chrono »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,859 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 12:01:10 AM »
I've got tooling contacts that could make some in a tool steel, but as pointed out previously in this thread, it's highly unlikely to be cost effective. Even in batches of 100+ it would still be incredibly difficult to produce them efficiently enough to even match the current Gerber pricing



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Newbie Posts: 8
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2017, 03:40:54 PM »
Economical alternative to the expensive Gerber 48252 carbide cutter replacement.

Gerber REPLACEMENT Tungsten Carbide Cutters 48252
Two tungsten carbide cutter replacements for Multi-Pliers
Hex head wrench
Four replacement screws
$14.24 + $2.61 s&h = $16.85

TCMT 731 Carbide Inserts C6 Grade For 1/4 & 5/16'' Turning Tools 2mm 10mm
10pcs Carbide inserts
$8.75 + $0.99 ePacket delivery from China = $9.74

No Life Club Posts: 2,367 21 Badges for Eagle
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2017, 04:18:55 PM »
Economical alternative to the expensive Gerber 48252 carbide cutter replacement.

Gerber REPLACEMENT Tungsten Carbide Cutters 48252
Two tungsten carbide cutter replacements for Multi-Pliers
Hex head wrench
Four replacement screws
$14.24 + $2.61 s&h = $16.85

TCMT 731 Carbide Inserts C6 Grade For 1/4 & 5/16'' Turning Tools 2mm 10mm
10pcs Carbide inserts
$8.75 + $0.99 ePacket delivery from China = $9.74

Do you think they will shatter as easily as the ones from Gerber?

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Newbie Posts: 8
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2017, 05:08:46 PM »
I don't know if they will shatter as easily as the Gerber 48252 carbide cutters.
When I looked at my Gerber 48252 cutters, they appear to be flat and without angular cutting edge.
Unlike the Leatherman replaceable carbide cutters, the Gerber 48252 does not appear to have beveled cutting edge.
I just looked for similar dimension of the triangle size, center hole size, material of cutter, and lastly the price.
If the TCMT 731 shattered on materials just like the Gerber 48252, its fine with me because they're inexpensive $1.95/pair replacements compared to the $16.85/pair Gerber 48252.
Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,620
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2017, 09:50:21 PM »
Welcome to the forum vlelet.   :cheers:   :cheers:
No Life Club Posts: 1,057 Find me if you can...
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2017, 11:46:08 PM »
Economical alternative to the expensive Gerber 48252 carbide cutter replacement.

Gerber REPLACEMENT Tungsten Carbide Cutters 48252
Two tungsten carbide cutter replacements for Multi-Pliers
Hex head wrench
Four replacement screws
$14.24 + $2.61 s&h = $16.85

TCMT 731 Carbide Inserts C6 Grade For 1/4 & 5/16'' Turning Tools 2mm 10mm
10pcs Carbide inserts
$8.75 + $0.99 ePacket delivery from China = $9.74

Oh I see how those inserts are seated in the tool pockets. I was under impression that the one on top would be on the bottom, hence the comment about the obtuse angle. Now the TCMT has those fancy feature called "chip breaker" on the insert face. If you get TCMA insert which has a flat top (no chip breaker), it will has a bit stronger edge than TCMT.  :cheers:
Newbie Posts: 8
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2017, 04:49:27 AM »
I'm correcting my previous statement about the Gerber 48252 being flat.
I got curious and took a long look at the 48252 cutter and saw that it is sliding forward and downward to one side which is the cutting side.

Its like the tip of the chisel with the cutting edge sliding forward and down towards the sharp cutting edge.
The 731 is also slightly longer than the 48252.

Comparing with the TCMT 731, it is also slightly angled forward and downward from the flat side to the fancy side.
Does that makes the fancy side the cutting edge of the insert? It's going to make contact first than the shorter side of the cutting edge.
Will it matter if the flat side is placed as the cutting side of the insert?

Newbie Posts: 8
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2017, 01:26:19 AM »
Follow up for anyone interested, I positioned the fancy side of the cutter inside and cut a few pieces from a metal clothes hanger.

1. It was easier to cut the metal clothes hanger when the cutter is positioned with the fancy (longer) side making a scissor action with the other cutter.
2. Also, it is easier to cut the clothes hanger using the rear or middle part of the cutter than the forward part of the cutter.
3. The $1.95/pair carbide cutter got chipped when I cut the hanger using the forward part of the cutter. Imagine if it was the $16.85 Gerber 48252 carbide cutter.

I think that's the benefit of having a inexpensive carbide cutter alternative, it won't hurt my wallet as much as the Gerber 48252 would.

Global Moderator Point Of No Return Posts: 37,620
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2017, 02:34:00 AM »
 :cheers:
No Life Club Posts: 1,057 Find me if you can...
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2017, 04:03:06 AM »
Not sure if you can find TCMA at the size that may fit your cutter, but the TCMA is stronger at the edge than TCMT. Also, being Chinese made, quality of the carbide may be questionable

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,634 Hidalgo, Castillo del Hook
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2017, 10:07:44 AM »
Not sure if you can find TCMA at the size that may fit your cutter, but the TCMA is stronger at the edge than TCMT. Also, being Chinese made, quality of the carbide may be questionable

(Image removed from quote.)
Can't see the pic.  :pok:

Also, Questionable?! Because its Chinese?!
What about the iphone oh I see what you mean.  :D :whistle:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Newbie Posts: 8
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 02:07:11 AM »
Anyone knows the specs of the screw that goes with the Gerber carbide cutter?
Newbie Posts: 8
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 02:11:44 AM »
has anyone found an alternative carbide cutter to the overpriced gerber ones?
ive searched the web and may have something.i have them ordered from ebay and when i get them and if they work i'll post pics.
what i can tell you is the product no.is
TCMT 110204 CARBIDE CUTTER
the size of these ones match the gerber ones.i paid 8 euros for a set of ten.
like i said,when they arrive i'll see if they fit.they should though.
it would cost me 50 euros to get 2 of the original gerber ones on amazon.
keep you posted.

gav.

I wonder if we got the same carbide cutter?
Please post pics soon as you get them installed in your plier.
No Life Club Posts: 1,057 Find me if you can...
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2017, 02:44:55 AM »
Not sure if you can find TCMA at the size that may fit your cutter, but the TCMA is stronger at the edge than TCMT. Also, being Chinese made, quality of the carbide may be questionable

(Image removed from quote.)
Can't see the pic.  :pok:

Also, Questionable?! Because its Chinese?!
What about the iphone oh I see what you mean.  :D :whistle:

Here, just a eBay picture http://i22.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/b2/59/20_35.JPG
TCMA has "flat top", meaning no fancy chip breaker, just a smooth flat. And I was serious about the crappy Chinese carbide. My workplace only uses American, Japanese, Sweden... made ones. Simple, cheapest ones are over $3, and that is with discount from distributors. It gotta be with the carbide purity, coating... or something.
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,808 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2017, 04:50:32 PM »
Just had a carbide cutter fail on me trying to cut some 2.2mm brass rod. Once it shattered my MP400 took over duties and was victorious.


'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf

'Derail a thread and we'll come at you like a block of cheese'. Captain Mags and Sergeant Fuzzbucket of the Anti Derai.... mmmmmmm cheese
No Life Club Posts: 1,915
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2017, 03:41:18 PM »
Alternative you say, this was a cut out from a cheap pair of garden shears. I simply refuse to pay for the price that gerber is asking for the carbide inserts. It's ridiculously expensive and does not work. I swear it works better than carbide. It may ding, but can be sharpened. Just some time needed. And $2 to spare.
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,808 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2017, 04:00:00 PM »
Interesting Sam - is there a link to these?  :salute:

'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf

'Derail a thread and we'll come at you like a block of cheese'. Captain Mags and Sergeant Fuzzbucket of the Anti Derai.... mmmmmmm cheese
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,859 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: alternatives to carbide cutters
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2017, 04:14:36 PM »
Just had a carbide cutter fail on me trying to cut some 2.2mm brass rod. Once it shattered my MP400 took over duties and was victorious.

Email them  :pok:

The only way they are going to change things, or offer a suitable tool steel alternative, is if the customer base gets vociferous about it. Numbers matter, and every  :twak: the company gets, adds up to more potential change  :salute:



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad

 

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