Cyclists and Anti-Cyclists

Grant Lamontagne · **on:** May 10, 2017, 01:04:18 PM

Since I have been accused of being an Anti Cyclist, I figured I'd start a thread about it.

Quote from: Huntsman on May 10, 2017, 05:02:43 AM

Quote from: Grant Lamontagne on May 09, 2017, 01:32:33 PM
Great to see you Serena!
Nice town you have built there too! I like the fact that there are no cyclists, because it means traffic can flow freely without some idiot weaving in and out of traffic, causing accidents!
Def

Likewise Serena - You have been away for ages for ages
Love your city - Do you have the French Café there? - I could not make it out - That is my favourite of the building series - It is really really nice with so much inside - including the artist's attic - Very La Boehme!!
And the campervan has to be one of the best sets ever !!

Boss - I am disappointed in you - Not another anti-cycling bigot
What most drivers do not realise is:
Cyclists reduce traffic on the road
Cyclists do not affect a drivers' overall journey time for an urban trip, yes you may have to wait a few seconds to get around them, but you will be stopped at the next set of lights in a traffic queue shortly anyway
Cyclists do not cause accidents

Ah well - A bit political & challenging the Boss - I guess that is the end of me at MTo.

To be fair - There are some cycling idiots on the road - I see this much more in Sydney, where there seems to be all out war between cyclists and drivers, compared to the UK
As a cyclist I started off on the side of the cyclists - of course - However after observing them for a few years - Some of them are not good road users - and I can see why drivers get frustrated.
They do not all stick to the rules of the road or have respect/consideration for other road users

Actually I am not sure what Ottawa or Halifax is like - But one Canadian city that has totally got cycling/motoring co-existence sorted is Vancouver
Everybody seems to cycle there - and the system, mutual respect, the road/cycle path network, really seems to work

Rant over

Let me get this straight first off- I am a recreational cyclist and occasionally even a pedestrian in addition to being a driver. In all three "modes," cyclists piss me off. I am also a courteous driver, not passing cyclists unless it is clear and safe for me to give them at least half a lane, if not the whole lane.

As a cyclist, I use my bell to warn pedestrians when I am about to pass them, and many of them thank me for not just whooshing by them like many (most if I'm honest) do with no warning whatsoever. There are enough cyclists that whoosh by me when I'm on my bike or walking with no warning that I am very tempted to kick them as they go by.

Additionally, as a driver, I have, on many occasions had to slam on my brakes as a cyclist whipped out in front of me, and almost caused me to be rear ended. You could make the argument that it would then be the fault of the guy behind me for following too closely, not paying attention etc, and that certainly is how the insurance companies would take it, but the real cause would be the cyclist, and there is no way to hold them accountable since they carry no identifiers (license plates), have no registration, no license, and, even if they did, no insurance to cover the cost of the repairs in the accident they caused.

When I cycle on the road, I observe traffic laws, I signal for my turns and I look before I pull out. I also realise that, as a meat puppet riding on a toy, being right doesn't keep me alive, and so I don't pull out until/unless the way is clear.

Here in Ottawa we have a lot of designated bike lanes and we have a lot of multi-use trails for cyclists, pedestrians, roller bladers etc. I find that the cyclists are a hazard no matter where they are.

To be fair, there are some that do it properly and courteously, and maybe it is just that the jackasses stand out more, but I would honestly say that they are the majority. And it isn't just Ottawa- it was the same in Halifax, only with less cycling infrastructure and narrower roads.

I have complained about this same issue with electric scooters and e-bikes previously too, and I have yet to see anything that would make me change my mind. Yes, there are far too many idiots in cars too, but they also pay insurance to cover their mistakes.

I am not anti-cyclist. I am "anti-the-type-of-self-centered-self-important-cyclist-that-knows-they-aren't-accountable-and-currently-dominates-the-activity" types that are out there. And, there's little to nothing being done about them.

I am also against the idiots that cut in front of transport trucks in any vehicle, motorized or not, assuming the transport can/will stop safely, and the idiots that stay in the wrong lane to get ahead of all the other traffic, then try to force their way in at the last second.

So there you go- have at me!

Def

Smashie · **Reply #1 on:** May 10, 2017, 01:24:47 PM

I pretty much agree with you to be honest, I live in a rural area and the cyclists are a menace. Even when they aren't cycling they are a pain. I have a large archway over my driveway, it's gated. I was going out a few weeks ago and the bloody cyclists were sheltering under it whilst it was raining. This is private bloody property. They proceeded then to have a go at me for daring to ask them to get off my property and get out of my way. Bunch of smurfing lycra fairies.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/11/off-your-bike/

From a few years ago and a bit tongue in cheek, but also quite accurate.

I will add to end this that I also cycle, but it's a mountain bike and I don't use the roads.

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #2 on:** May 10, 2017, 01:35:34 PM

I do cycle on the road. I often prefer to cycle for some errands, provided it is stuff I can carry on a bicycle. I even got a trailer for my bike last year to allow me to do even more on my bike.

It amazes me how many people are surprised by any courtesy shown by cyclists. I have yet to be out on my bike and not be thanked loudly by pedestrians because I use my bell. And, I have also yet to be out on my bike and not loudly suggest to other cyclists who pass me use their bells in the future. I get flipped the bird an awful lot for that, which just goes to show their dedication to being absolute smurfholes.

Seriously, they have a couple of thousand dollars (easily) invested in their bikes and fancy outfits, yet they can't afford $2 for a bell?

Def

Gerhard Gerber · **Reply #3 on:** May 10, 2017, 01:36:46 PM

From the country with the highest number of per capita road deaths in the world....

Two cyclists were killed in the past 7 days, both were competitive cyclists out practicing I believe.

Personally I'm an Anti-Cyclist Bigot.

Reasons being that cyclists on bicycles worth more than my car have more than once left me with choices:
a) brake to the point where the ABS takes over
b) head-on collision with oncoming traffic
c) take out two side by side smurfs on their little bicycles and go to prison.

Yes, I have turned around, stopped and "assaulted" a cyclist.

The reason I mention the price of the bicycle? In this wonderful free and fair society we live in I have to assume that anybody that has my annual income to spend on a recreational toy must also understand the physics involved on their self-appointed playground.

FLAME-ON!

JP · **Reply #4 on:** May 10, 2017, 01:43:11 PM

Geez, we have people from the city that drive out here to go cycling. Of course, it is on road bicycles, no bells, no lights, no reflectors, no hi-vis jackets. It is terrible. On a country road they blend right into the shadows and landscape, you don't see them until you are almost on them. We don't have paved shoulders here and often times the cyclists ride side by side taking up most of the lane.

I would love to see wide, paved shoulders and encourage more cycling in the rural areas....but I don't want to pay more taxes. Maybe the government's could spend more efficiently and waste less, then we could pay for it.

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dks · **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2017, 01:43:49 PM

Grant, What do you think of prius drivers?

gregozedobe · **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2017, 01:54:24 PM

My favoured applicants for posthumous "Darwin Awards" are those two wheeled cretins who insist on riding at night on busy high speed roads with ZERO visibility aids. I'm talking dark clothing, no lights, no reflectors (note that all bikes sold in Australia are supposed to come with reflectors so they must have deliberately removed them to improve their chances of being hit). And of course they never wear a helmet, so if they do survive being hit I'm going to be paying extra taxes to support them for the rest of their disabled life. Grrrr

Zed · **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2017, 02:07:46 PM

As a Cyclist of pretty much most my life I can see both arguements,sadly though I get bored argueing the toss over it,I've been knocked off 3 times in 30 odd years, all three times was the car drivers fault,what also makes me laugh is most times they get on the defensive even though it me on the deck bleeding

Plus there surprised when it's me getting up and shouting back at them, I've always ridden safely,have lights etc,wear a helmet and bright colours.But Iin life there are good cyclists and bad cyclist,as there are good car drivers and bad car drivers.This is a old argument ,as a pedestrian I got once hit by a Cyclist,I had a little bruise ,i got hit by 3 cars,and let's say I had more than just bruises , this is my view as a proper cyclist ,there are also proper car drivers out there

Etherealicer · **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2017, 04:08:54 PM

I have almost never problems with other cyclists, car driver however regularly. I think most problems come from different speeds (obviously Def is a slow cyclist

). So, as a car driver you cross more path with cyclists and vice versa.

My personal judgment of car drivers is, they are near blind (especially in twilight) often overseeing me and they have no clue how big their vehicle is. They also seem willing to risk my life so they are a fraction of a second faster at their destination.

- Cutting me off (frequency: at least once a week): car passes me, then turns right (or simply pulls right in front of a red light or due to a pedestrian island). I can avoid getting hit by breaking but it happened once that the car driver hit my front wheel (yeah he hit my wheel on the side).

- Passing too closely (frequency: once every two weeks): I got hit on the elbow with the rear-mirror by a car passing me too closely on an empty street (and I mean empty, there was no car on the oncoming lane, fortunately, there was a second car behind the one who hit me). It is rather common for car drivers to pass me way to closely on an empty street.

- I was stopping at a pedestrian crossing (pedestrians go first) and was rear-ended by a car not looking out.

- Car drivers parking on a bike-path consider their car out of the way.

Summary: 3 hospital visits due to a blind/inattentive car driver.

Etherealicer · **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2017, 04:14:49 PM

Quote from: Huntsman on May 10, 2017, 05:02:43 AM

Cyclists reduce traffic on the road
Cyclists do not affect a drivers' overall journey time for an urban trip, yes you may have to wait a few seconds to get around them, but you will be stopped at the next set of lights in a traffic queue shortly anyway
Cyclists do not cause accidents

Not to mention

Cycling is exercise, many people could use some more exercise.
Cycling is better for the environment.
Cycling is less noisy.

styx · **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2017, 04:30:23 PM

Quote from: Etherealicer on May 10, 2017, 04:08:54 PM

I have almost never problems with other cyclists, car driver however regularly. I think most problems come from different speeds (obviously Def is a slow cyclist ). So, as a car driver you cross more path with cyclists and vice versa.

My personal judgment of car drivers is, they are near blind (especially in twilight) often overseeing me and they have no clue how big their vehicle is. They also seem willing to risk my life so they are a fraction of a second faster at their destination.

- Cutting me off (frequency: at least once a week): car passes me, then turns right (or simply pulls right in front of a red light or due to a pedestrian island). I can avoid getting hit by breaking but it happened once that the car driver hit my front wheel (yeah he hit my wheel on the side).

- Passing too closely (frequency: once every two weeks): I got hit on the elbow with the rear-mirror by a car passing me too closely on an empty street (and I mean empty, there was no car on the oncoming lane, fortunately, there was a second car behind the one who hit me). It is rather common for car drivers to pass me way to closely on an empty street.

- I was stopping at a pedestrian crossing (pedestrians go first) and was rear-ended by a car not looking out.

- Car drivers parking on a bike-path consider their car out of the way.

Summary: 3 hospital visits due to a blind/inattentive car driver.

I think a lot of this comes down to cycling and driving culture. In Switzerland I've never had issues with cyclists. In Croatia, I'm just glad that I do not have access to firearms.

Since those two countries are my point of reference, here is the exact difference:
- never seen a cyclist in Switzerland without a helmet, going the wrong way, taking the right of way when there is none or not using a bicycle lane if there is one
Almost all of those are a very rare occurrence in my city. Actually it has gotten to where many cyclists cause problems on purpose just so they can play the victim card on social media and any other media outlet that will listen to them.

While I love bicycles and really should get another one ("sold" my old one a few months ago to a not so well off kid so he can get to high school on time), I would not ride it around the city. The traffic is aggressive and bicycle lanes in this city are inadequate, plus a lot of anti-cyclist feelings have been conjured up by very egotistical behavior of a good amount of cycling population.

Oh all of the eco and health stuff does stand. Well the health stuff stands if one is smart enough not to get hit by a tram since that is somewhat bad for your health

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2017, 04:39:36 PM

Yes, I am also allergic to being run over by larger vehicles....

Beat, while I respect your experiences (as I do everyone's), you have to remember that your country is all about bicycles, and is small enough for that to be feasible. And, according to Jeremy Clarkson at least, cars are considered evil in Switzerland.

Next time you visit NA, rent a car, drive in traffic downtown and see whether you still think cyclists aren't complete and utter smurfs.

Def

Ron Who · **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2017, 04:53:26 PM

In The Netherlands, there are more bicycles than people. And lots of cars too. Most of the time all goes well. Of course cyclists can be a PITA to car drivers, but the same is true the other way. It all depends on your way of riding/driving. People with a this-road-is-mine attitude are a menace.

Etherealicer · **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2017, 05:11:37 PM

Quote from: styx on May 10, 2017, 04:30:23 PM

I think a lot of this comes down to cycling and driving culture. In Switzerland I've never had issues with cyclists. In Croatia, I'm just glad that I do not have access to firearms.

I'm not kidding, I've seen a cyclist (Munich, Germany) who had a basket full of stones on his handle bar... I noticed that because he threw one at a car that cut him off.

lister · **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2017, 05:15:23 PM

Here I am having at you:

As for drivers vs cyclists: I am both and I hate both. Ain't I a good misanthrope?

Mechanickal · **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2017, 05:22:50 PM

I'm none of both.
I'm anti "cyclist that thinks he's the king of the road and is never wrong".

Like mentioned here before, staying alive is priority, not being right.

2 months ago I had a near collision with a cyclist.
I took a turn on a roundabout while a cyclist on an electric bike wanted to get on the roundabout.

Road markings showed that I had priority.
The dude rides up the roundabout anyway and sees me take the turn.
I slowed down because I noticed he didn't follow the markings.

He saw me and slammed his brakes.
His foot hit the pedal, causing the motor to push forward again, but he had 1 foot on the ground!

Result: faceplanting biker and a bike that got slinged to the middle of the road.
Luckely he didn't have anything but some scratches.

Now don't let me get started about cyclists who refuse to use the cycling lane because "the group is too large" or "it's not smooth enough to my likings" because I have to control myself not to run them over on purpose!

I'm on the road for work every day of the week, and there are some crazy smurf drivers AND cyclists out there!

caninesapien · **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2017, 05:37:40 PM

I have much more of an issue with bad drivers than cyclists - the town where I currently live appears to be nirvana for the rubbish motorist. There's a junction at the end of my street that is really bad for it and it's no exaggeration to say that 50% of the time I've driven there I've had to slam on the brakes for other motorists who just didn't check the junction before pulling out.

Even so, I'd probably say that cyclists are like any other group of people using the roads - you get some courteous ones, and some rude/irresponsible ones. I'd find it hard to say "All cyclists are [insert adjective here]".

The worst offenders for me are some of the cyclists on my city's pedestrianised areas. I work near to my city centre and during my lunch break I often have to brace myself as a cyclist whizzes through the crowds, weaving between groups of people. Also the other day, as I was walking along the pavement, a cyclist bashed into me with such force that I had to hop into.... the bike lane.... where he should have been.... TO START WITH!

Etherealicer · **Reply #17 on:** May 10, 2017, 05:49:14 PM

Quote from: caninesapien on May 10, 2017, 05:37:40 PM

The worst offenders for me are some of the cyclists on my city's pedestrianised areas. I work near to my city centre and during my lunch break I often have to brace myself as a cyclist whizzes through the crowds, weaving between groups of people. Also the other day, as I was walking along the pavement, a cyclist bashed into me with such force that I had to hop into.... the bike lane.... where he should have been.... TO START WITH!

Yeah, that is totally rude. Gets worse with those silly electrical "hover"-boards and e-bikes

Sadly, there is always a traffic-planner who thinks it is a great idea to put the bike path straight through the pedestrian area. Also not funny, there is often no clear access to bike parking... its like, just drive over that crowded square.

Don Pablo · **Reply #18 on:** May 10, 2017, 05:51:52 PM

I have nothing to add.
Except these two comics related to cycling that I thought of when reading this thread.

n00bs off the road
This is Bikeland!

JP · **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2017, 06:06:16 PM

I was a cyclist. Full time before I had a car and lived in the city.

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AlephZero · **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2017, 06:11:23 PM

Im just going to post once to this thread of just saying that you don't want to hear what I think about most drivers...

lister · **Reply #21 on:** May 10, 2017, 07:38:24 PM

To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem

Etherealicer · **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2017, 07:46:09 PM

Quote from: Grant Lamontagne on May 10, 2017, 04:39:36 PM

Yes, I am also allergic to being run over by larger vehicles....

Beat, while I respect your experiences (as I do everyone's), you have to remember that your country is all about bicycles, and is small enough for that to be feasible. And, according to Jeremy Clarkson at least, cars are considered evil in Switzerland.

Next time you visit NA, rent a car, drive in traffic downtown and see whether you still think cyclists aren't complete and utter smurfs.

Def

Where to start... ah yes, its not about bicycles its all about public transport.

As for the video: The Freedom Party is called Autopartei (car-party, official German name), needless to say they are a bunch of idiots who fortunately have nothing to say. The forests were in dire shape (around where I live you could go to any tree in summer stand next to the trunk and still see the sky) and the increase of forest area was certainly not thanks to those blithering idiots.

I think he got the part about motorbikes right, nothing better to enjoy mountain roads... btw, the loveride is still going strong and they have a lovely SAK
Photo from kosmo

I think he is wrong when it comes to horsepower, I bet you the average motor-vehicle in Switzerland has more horsepower than most other countries... we don't buy the Dodge Challenger, we buy the SRT Hellcat (seen one today, American muscle is still pretty rare but it gets more and more common).

Why do we have luxury cars... well we can afford them

Also, about 10 years ago the Italian tax office decided to look at the tax-returns of luxury car owners, needless to say many people in Switzerland jumped at the opportunity for a cheap-ish Ferrari

I also have to say Franco Sbarro is my hero... asking him about price. Despite him being Italian that answer was very Swiss.

Btw, the most Swiss car is not from Monteverdi / Rinspeed or Sbarro, it is of course the VW Phaeton... looks like a Passat but has more luxury than a Rolls Royce, classic understatement car.