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I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx 14918

Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« on: July 30, 2017, 07:12:51 AM »
As the title suggests, I recently converted Jalox (Urban Pioneer) to torx screws... Some may ask why. Answer is simple... I wasn't too happy with the brass pins I used. It is simply not strong enough for 93mm backsprings and tools. I would from time to time need to re-peen (if this is the correct term) the pin heads as some tools were developing play from use... Now I understand why Vic uses Nickel Silver for pins... Stronger they are...

Of course there are other benefits of using torx... No need to peen... Am still not good at peening... hahaha... There also much more convenient for assembling and disassembling...

OK. To be honest, I had no plans/intentions whatsoever of making a thread about torx conversions... I didn't take any pictures of the conversion process...Hey, I had no experiences prior to this... Focus was needed... ah ah ah... I did get some helpful tips from a good man, Tattoosteve99.

I'm dedicating this thread to you Steven.

Poncho65 and Pablo O'Brian. As requested... Hope it was helpful...

First things first, here's what is needed (apart from the normal tools required to mutilte your SAK) to do a conversion...

Obviously, some torx screws and pivot barrels.

The ones I used were 3mm and 2.5mm pivots and are about 0.5" long... Most common used are 1/8".

A couple of torx and a step drill


Some threadlocker


Hope I didn't forget anything else...

Btw, here's a pic of Jalox....


(To be continued in the next post). Stay tuned...


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« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 08:02:13 AM by jaya_man »
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2017, 07:31:27 AM »
First thing needed to do is to disassemble your SAK. There are lots of guides in the forum so I won't show them here.

Clean and wash all the parts afterwards. Hopefully you remembered to take pics of the tool layout, configuration and order...

Here's mine

I later realized that the order of the two backsprings at the bottom of the pic are wrong... Found out during assembly...

Next thing I did, is to pre-fit the torx screw on the scale pivot holes to see if it will sit flush... I want this conversion to be aesthetically pleasing and functional... Turns out OK on the outer holes... Just need to countersink the middle hole...

Here's were the step drill bit comes in...Now I don't have a drill press thingo... And I didn't want to mess up the alox scales I wanted to use any further than what I had already did... Don't ask how... :facepalm:

Luckily aluminum is soft... I wanted to do this really nice and slow, so my rotary tool (dremel) was out of the picture... I manually drilled by hand to make a counter sink... Kinda like carving...


Nice and slow... frequently eye balling until I was satisfied that it is flush...


Now were ready for assembly and fitting and mockup...


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« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 07:33:08 AM by jaya_man »
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,941 I brake for cake
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2017, 07:49:33 AM »
 :popcorn:
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2017, 07:57:06 AM »
Forgot to mention that I used a 4mm step drill.. which is about the same diameter as the torx screws I have...

As mentioned previously, I used a couple of 3mm and a 2.5mm pivot barrels... This means no drilling on the backspring and tools required... If 1/8" barrels are used, then get a 1/8" cobalt drill bit (I think) and drill all the pivot holes on each tool, liner, scale and back spring...

Torx a screw on each barrel and insert them in the hole on the scales...



Since the middle pivot is smaller than the other ones, I placed a longer screw to add strength... (a helpful tip from Tattosteve99)

Afterwards, I did my assembly... all the while thinking (are the pivots long enough for my build? Are they shorter or longer than required?)... Again I was lucky... The pivot lengths are just about right... No cutting required...

TIP: determining pivot length needed is trial and error or if your good at it, do some measurements. The goal is, once screw is in place nice and tight, there are no play on the tools and open/closes nicely... You know, that click and pop sound...

Once everything is done... I focused my attention a bit to the middle pivot as both screw ends should meet... so I had to remove a bit of length from the long screw by cutting with pliers and filing... once I was happy.. I moved on the the next step...

Applying threadlocks so that the screws wont move... Loctite 243 came highly recommended from an inquiry I had in a separate thread. (thanks to all the guys that helped out on this question)...

Only apply a very minimal amount on each screw end... if more than required is applied, it will be tough to unscrew in the future...

Then all that is needed is some minor adjustments on each screw so that tools are not so tight and not too loose either.



I guess that's all I did really...

Again, I hope this helps you Poncho and Pablo...


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2017, 08:09:25 AM »
Forgot to mention that the screws I had were T6... Though some may come in T8? :facepalm:


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2017, 08:10:13 AM »
This probably the most unorganized and unplanned thread I have made... sigh


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No Life Club Posts: 3,640
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2017, 08:53:42 AM »
This is helping me understand how the mod works for sure! This is somewhat unrelated to the pivots but when you put your two openers opposite the phillips what did you have to do to fit them?
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 08:56:43 AM »
This is helping me understand how the mod works for sure! This is somewhat unrelated to the pivots but when you put your two openers opposite the phillips what did you have to do to fit them?
2 opener backsprings are needed... flip one so that it will fit the bottle opener on the same end as the can opener... Reshape the phillips the same as the openers and enlarge the pivot hole... :cheers:


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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,982
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2017, 09:32:47 AM »

 :popcorn:

Very nice tiny tiny work  :salute:

Everything’s adjustable
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,094 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 09:58:33 AM »
Very cool.  :salute:
You got lucky with being able to use 3mm pivots I think... :)

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
No Life Club Posts: 3,176
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2017, 10:00:20 AM »
Awesome! This is one of my dream mods and will hopefully be made in the future. This thread will work for reference so thank you!!

It's not failure if you learn something from it

Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,941 I brake for cake
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2017, 10:07:31 AM »
Very cool.  :salute:
You got lucky with being able to use 3mm pivots I think... :)

Got lucky? Why go to all the trouble of drilling out the tools to 1/8" if 3mm pivots are available?
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,094 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2017, 10:13:34 AM »
Very cool.  :salute:
You got lucky with being able to use 3mm pivots I think... :)

Got lucky? Why go to all the trouble of drilling out the tools to 1/8" if 3mm pivots are available?
:D
Indeed... 3mm pivots don't seem to be common.  :D

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2017, 10:18:27 AM »
Thanks Guys :cheers:

The pivots were part of a deal I had with Tattoosteve99... An awesome guy and friend... A good person to deal with...


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« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 12:44:44 PM by jaya_man »
Thread Killer 2017 Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,420 Born to multitask.
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2017, 11:14:59 AM »
Forgot to mention that the screws I had were T6... Though some may come in T8? :facepalm:

I was about to ask that, thanks.  :tu:

Imagine if SAKs came with torx screws. Man, the hours of fun we would have had.
Jr. Member Posts: 92
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2017, 11:42:20 AM »
Awesome and timely post.

Well done - l believe your approach is the simplest l have seen.

I too want to build an Alox with this exact layout.

I've been holding off on buying the 1/8" pivots from the recommended place as they have a $US 50 minimum order (not including postage) for overseas buyers.

 A few questions;

1) What is the thread size of the torx screws and where did you buy them from? Are they metric?

2) Any idea of the source of the pivots?

2) l thought l read somewhere on this site that you have to counterbore the inner surface of the scales slightly for the pivots - l believe this is so that the pivots take the load rather that the screws? Is it OK not to do this?

Cheers

George

Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2017, 12:43:50 PM »
Awesome and timely post.

Well done - l believe your approach is the simplest l have seen.

I too want to build an Alox with this exact layout.

I've been holding off on buying the 1/8" pivots from the recommended place as they have a $US 50 minimum order (not including postage) for overseas buyers.

 A few questions;

1) What is the thread size of the torx screws and where did you buy them from? Are they metric?

2) Any idea of the source of the pivots?

2) l thought l read somewhere on this site that you have to counterbore the inner surface of the scales slightly for the pivots - l believe this is so that the pivots take the load rather that the screws? Is it OK not to do this?

Cheers

George
Hi George,

I wouldn't be able to answer no.1 as I don't know... like I mention above, I source the pivots and screws from Tattoosteve99...

I didn't counterbore the inside scale holes as all of the pivots ends goes through the scale holes... This I forgot to mention above...


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2017, 12:44:23 PM »
Forgot to mention that the screws I had were T6... Though some may come in T8? :facepalm:

I was about to ask that, thanks.  :tu:

Imagine if SAKs came with torx screws. Man, the hours of fun we would have had.
That's for sure... :cheers:


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Global Moderator Just Bananas Posts: 65,726
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2017, 03:21:04 PM »
Thanks for this thread jaya :like: I had always wondered about the countersinking part :salute: A very straight forward explanation and great pics to go with it :cheers: I may try this someday if I can source the parts needed :like: Maybe a Farmer X with a file and an electrician blade instead of the opener :dd: :D

Some of the way the mod goes just hadn't occurred to me, thus why I wanted to see the process :salute:

Excellent thread :cheers:
Global Moderator Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 24,947
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2017, 03:26:29 PM »
Nice reference for those looking to attempt this mod. 

 :tu:

Esse Quam Videri
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,648
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2017, 03:31:32 PM »
Where did you find those torx screws/pivot barrels?
 Edit: just read all replies... nvm :facepalm:
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 03:33:09 PM by Mechanickal »
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2017, 03:31:34 PM »
Thanks Poncho and Aloha007... :salute: :saknight:


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2017, 03:36:13 PM »
Here's an illustration of how  the torx and pivot looks like... at least on my mod... as the diameter of the scale pivot holes are just right for the barrels, and there is enough length for the barrel to go through the scale, counterbore wasn't required...



Maybe counterbore would be required for 1/8" barrels?


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Sr. Member Posts: 273
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2017, 03:37:53 PM »
Very cool thread
 :like:
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2017, 03:40:29 PM »
Where did you find those torx screws/pivot barrels?
 Edit: just read all replies... nvm :facepalm:
I just don't know whether Steven sells them to anyone who asks? Or mine were just extras lying around...


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2017, 03:50:27 PM »
Very cool thread
 :like:
Thanks :cheers: :drink:


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Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,941 I brake for cake
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2017, 03:52:33 PM »
Here's an illustration of how  the torx and pivot looks like... at least on my mod... as the diameter of the scale pivot holes are just right for the barrels, and there is enough length for the barrel to go through the scale, counterbore wasn't required...

(Image removed from quote.)

Maybe counterbore would be required for 1/8" barrels?


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Great sketch - shows the arrangement nicely. :tu:
A couple of points to add, from my experience of similar mods (using 3mm brass pivots on all three points):
1) cut the pivots as long as you possibly can.  The more of the pivot that sticks into the scale the better.  I assembled the knives onto longer plain rod, measured the overall thickess then subracted 2.5mm to get the final pivot length.
2) countersink the ends of the pivot barrels if you can too - this allows the pivots to be longer and have more engagement with the scales for better snap.
3) Make the countersinks in the scales as shallow as possible - again, to maximise the overlap between the pivot and the scale.

The screws I used were metric M2x0.5mm with countersunk T6 heads, but I guess the ones Steve used are imperial/standard 2-56.
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2017, 03:56:51 PM »
Here's an illustration of how  the torx and pivot looks like... at least on my mod... as the diameter of the scale pivot holes are just right for the barrels, and there is enough length for the barrel to go through the scale, counterbore wasn't required...

(Image removed from quote.)

Maybe counterbore would be required for 1/8" barrels?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great sketch - shows the arrangement nicely. :tu:
A couple of points to add, from my experience of similar mods (using 3mm brass pivots on all three points):
1) cut the pivots as long as you possibly can.  The more of the pivot that sticks into the scale the better.  I assembled the knives onto longer plain rod, measured the overall thickess then subracted 2.5mm to get the final pivot length.
2) countersink the ends of the pivot barrels if you can too - this allows the pivots to be longer and have more engagement with the scales for better snap.
3) Make the countersinks in the scales as shallow as possible - again, to maximise the overlap between the pivot and the scale.

The screws I used were metric M2x0.5mm with countersunk T6 heads, but I guess the ones Steve used are imperial/standard 2-56.
Ahhh... more helpful tips for me... I will need it for future mods...

Thanks H :saknight: :cheers:


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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,517 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2017, 05:59:47 PM »
Great thread, and very useful  :tu:

Going back to the original motivation for a moment though, are we sure that it's the brass that's not up to the job. If the pins need repeening, they may be stretching, OR the peened heads may just be "settling" in the holes. I had this happen on one of my mods - everything was tight, but it became a little sloppy with gaps between layers without doing much work. The pins weren't stretching, but the peened heads were pulling in slightly. It may have been that when I was peening, the knife was adequately supported but not the pin itself, and this may have floated slightly when peening the second side.

Hopefully that makes sense  :think:



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 9,007
Re: I Recently Converted My Alox Mod to Torx
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2017, 06:28:11 PM »
Great thread, and very useful  :tu:

Going back to the original motivation for a moment though, are we sure that it's the brass that's not up to the job. If the pins need repeening, they may be stretching, OR the peened heads may just be "settling" in the holes. I had this happen on one of my mods - everything was tight, but it became a little sloppy with gaps between layers without doing much work. The pins weren't stretching, but the peened heads were pulling in slightly. It may have been that when I was peening, the knife was adequately supported but not the pin itself, and this may have floated slightly when peening the second side.

Hopefully that makes sense  :think:
Good point... That could be the case too... I suspected that initially... I used the same type of brass pins for my other mods, and I never had to re-peen...

The brass pin material available locally could also be different from those available overseas... The ones I have are actually brass welding rods... I once tried brass pins made in Germany... they were tougher to cut...


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