SAK a "weapon?!"

[dks]

yes, but if you are macgyver you can use that knife or  a pin to make a bigger knife or an axe or an assault weapon  ...  How do they know what skills you have?

[Don Pablo]

yes, but if you are macgyver you can use that knife or  a pin to make a bigger knife or an axe or an assault weapon  ...  How do they know what skills you have?

Cut it out, you’re making me want to learn how to do that, and take up martial arts to become a weapon. 

[VIXADDICT]

yes, but if you are macgyver you can use that knife or  a pin to make a bigger knife or an axe or an assault weapon  ...  How do they know what skills you have?

You got that right DKS! 

After all, gimme some tape, a polystyrene block, 4 matches, an elastic and 2 pipet tips and I will make you a fire throwing office crossbow !!! 

[Lynn LeFey]

Cut it out, you’re making me want to learn how to do that, and take up martial arts to become a weapon. 

"I am the Immortal Iron Fist."
"Yeah, Danny, you told us that already."
 

[Aloha]

There has to be balance at some point.  While part of me sees the need or reason behind this stripping of tools or implements a entirely other part questions it all.  There are plenty of things a determined individual can use to take a life. I'm sure those that make these rules of de-tooling know this.  I sure hope they realize it.  I find myself somewhere in the middle if I am perfectly honest with myself.  Am I worried about some nutter with a knife?  Not necessarily.  Would I freak out if I saw someone use a knife for its intended purpose? Not at all.  Trying to convince those who see knives solely as weapons is not a debate I get myself into.  I guess if I were to take a position even while unpopular here on MTO I say..........   Its their right to ask you not to bring in any items they they don't want in.  Its their property and their right.  We all have the right to decide to go or not. 

If you come to my home I have to the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering.  If you feel strongly about keeping your shoes on thats your right and you wont be let in.  Whats interesting and my point is we tend to feel very strong about our property.  What can and will happen on our property.  What we will allow and not allow on our property.  Yet on others property we want our rights to matter more.  Its private property not unlike your home.  If you decide to go there then you should be prepared to follow their rules.  Again I know its probably not a popular opinion here on MTO but....   

      

[Don Pablo]

Snipped
If you come to my home I have to the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering.  If you feel strongly about keeping your shoes on thats your right and you wont be let in. 
Snipped

Your entire post sounds like a valuable point of view to me. 
Disneyland(or other private organizations) banning knives is not so bad if you consider it from the "private property = the owners can restrict whatever they want" point of view.

Question, can I go sockless in your house Aloha? 
I mean, it's in SoCal after all...... I like "going Hobbit" when I can. 

[Aloha]

Snipped
If you come to my home I have to the right to ask you to remove your shoes before entering.  If you feel strongly about keeping your shoes on thats your right and you wont be let in. 
Snipped

Your entire post sounds like a valuable point of view to me. 
Disneyland(or other private organizations) banning knives is not so bad if you consider it from the "private property = the owners can restrict whatever they want" point of view.

Question, can I go sockless in your house Aloha? 
I mean, it's in SoCal after all...... I like "going Hobbit" when I can. 

You most certainly can go sockless.  I am 3 miles from the beach now and its almost required you have no shoes.  I do provide slippers for those who must have "shoes" within my home. 

[pfrsantos]

I got nothing.

TSA got you too, huh?...

 

[pfrsantos]

I've found that security guys always have fantastic senses of humour, especially at airports. Crack them up with a "I have a bomb in here!" joke and they might even upgrade you to first class.*


*At least this joke went down a treat back in 1953. Things may have changed a bit since then.

Lynn at airport, stops to show security her bladeless Leatherman.
TSA Agent:"What is that?"
Lynn:"It's a modified Blast"
Lynn is tackled by 4 agents.

Next trip, Lynn is emptying her Maxpedition slingbag.
TSA Agent: "What is that?"
Lynn:"I'ts a maxpedition Thermite"
Lynn is tackled by 7 agents.

Wow, you really like uniforms, huh?...

 

[pfrsantos]

I kinda wonder--do they let martial artists in there? I'm sure they could kill people with their bare hands.  Instead of actually stopping those who do evil, these wannabe cops, or "rent a cops" as a friend calls them,  are too busy hassling the average citizen about a small pocketknife.

Yup, those are really dangerous...

 

Show content

 

[pfrsantos]

You yougens dont know how much freedom you have lost. As a grade schooler I carried my 22rabbit rifle on my bicycle to class then stored it in my locker till school let out. Then me and several other boys would take them out and go hunting as soon as school let out.
Try that now, there would be 16 SWAT teams and 6 companies of Marines storming the classroom.

Hell, I'm not even all that old (38) and I remember seeing hunting rifles and shotguns in the rear windows of trucks in the parking lot in high school.  Guys would get up early to hunt before school.  I carried a SAK all through high school as well.  Nobody batted an eye at any of that stuff, and it wasn't too long ago.

I hear you mate, I'm 40 and when I was 16 I bought my first Leatherman (original Supertool) and carried it every day to high school, and in weekends when going out ... Never had any problems (and I used to pull it out every time I had the chance, since I was so proud to own this beautiful piece of engineering, these days I'll take a good look around even before I use my Swisschamp in public ...  ).

P.S.: No need for puns about the "I used to pull it out every time I had the chance" part guys  .

 

You're no fun!

 

[Lynn LeFey]

Its their right to ask you not to bring in any items they they don't want in.  Its their property and their right.  We all have the right to decide to go or not. 

The problem with this is when it's NOT private property, or when you really DON'T have a choice, ala museums (NOT private property) and airports (don't have a choice).

The Art Museum in St. Louis is public property, PUBLIC funded, free to enter, paid for by tax dollars, to be used by everyone. It's on public property. 100% NOT private property.

The second example, airports, you can argue till you're blue in the face, but if you have to get across the country for a funeral (for instance) you REALLY don't have a choice in the mode of transportation. Moreover, International Airports are sorta-kinda international 'properties' in the eyes of the law. By strict letter of the law, they are private property, but I honestly find that a pretty huge cop-out, and has already been pointed out in this thread, no one will EVER take over another airplane with a pointy bit of metal. No one is ever going to be able to successfully hijack an aircraft with anything short of firearms or explosives ever again, and even then probably not.

People want to restrict knives or whatever in private parks, that's their business. It's dumb, in my opinion, but lots of people do lots of dumb things, and it's still not my business. When it's public spaces or public transportation, then it starts to get me upset.

[Don Pablo]

Its their right to ask you not to bring in any items they they don't want in.  Its their property and their right.  We all have the right to decide to go or not. 

The problem with this is when it's NOT private property, or when you really DON'T have a choice, ala museums (NOT private property) and airports (don't have a choice).

The Art Museum in St. Louis is public property, PUBLIC funded, free to enter, paid for by tax dollars, to be used by everyone. It's on public property. 100% NOT private property.

The second example, airports, you can argue till you're blue in the face, but if you have to get across the country for a funeral (for instance) you REALLY don't have a choice in the mode of transportation. Moreover, International Airports are sorta-kinda international 'properties' in the eyes of the law. By strict letter of the law, they are private property, but I honestly find that a pretty huge cop-out, and has already been pointed out in this thread, no one will EVER take over another airplane with a pointy bit of metal. No one is ever going to be able to successfully hijack an aircraft with anything short of firearms or explosives ever again, and even then probably not.

People want to restrict knives or whatever in private parks, that's their business. It's dumb, in my opinion, but lots of people do lots of dumb things, and it's still not my business. When it's public spaces or public transportation, then it starts to get me upset.

I also agree on this, and I think that a large portion of the membership here will also. 

[pfrsantos]

If you really, really look into it, you'll see it's our fault.

Governments make these laws. Government officials make them because of public opinion pressure, the same public that elects them. If you vote to elect someone (or run for some political office), you can make a difference. You can decide who gets elected, you can decide what you feel should be legal or ilegal.

You can educate your kids/family/friends/colleagues about these issues. You can have them then do the same to other people.

Not saying it's easy or quick, just saying how you can/should be done.

When someone asks me if I agree with something, my answer is either "no, but since I'm not trying to correct it I can't complain" or "no, that's why I'm complaining and doing what I can to change it".

 

[Aloha]

Lynn with regard to public property I will hold my tongue as to my opinion.  As far as the airports, SIGH.  I'll go ahead and bite my tongue on this too. 

[TennTexan]

Clearly you shouldn't allow one to carry a machette on a plane...

Why not?  I would assert that if a man has no intention of causing harm on the plane it doesn't matter whether he's carrying a Classic SD or a machete.  The person is the weapon, not the thing.

[dks]

[pfrsantos]

If you really, really look into it, you'll see it's our fault.

Governments make these laws. Government officials make them because of public opinion pressure, the same public that elects them. If you vote to elect someone (or run for some political office), you can make a difference. You can decide who gets elected, you can decide what you feel should be legal or ilegal.

You can educate your kids/family/friends/colleagues about these issues. You can have them then do the same to other people.

Not saying it's easy or quick, just saying how you can/should be done.

When someone asks me if I agree with something, my answer is either "no, but since I'm not trying to correct it I can't complain" or "no, that's why I'm complaining and doing what I can to change it".

 

Just read this and it feels so OOC...

 

I need to say something stupid soon or people will start taking me seriously...

 

[ThePeacent]

Its their right to ask you not to bring in any items they they don't want in.  Its their property and their right.  We all have the right to decide to go or not. 

The problem with this is when it's NOT private property, or when you really DON'T have a choice, ala museums (NOT private property) and airports (don't have a choice).

that's also what caught my attention from 007's post 

I live in a city -and a country- where many many public places and apparently free access places have metal detectors.
Most hospitals, all airports, some ports, and most of if not all Government buildings -from the Department Of Agriculture to the Conference Chambers, to the Health and Public Safety agency and the offices of the Education and School Ministry- have detectors on their entrance, full size scanners 
That makes me not want to get there for consultations, conferences and speeches (happened twice, that I went the way I came  ) and other bureaucracy
 
that includes all courthouses, jails, courts...
and lots of museums.

National museums, art museums, science museums...many both private and public (and public funded) expositions, buildings and exhibitions have a metal detector for your person and X-ray for your stuff at the entrance. 

The Museo Del Prado in madrid being one example of this, arguably the most visited and frequented Art Museum of all Spain. I had to dig and hide my knife and MT outside before making it into the queue and into the museum,
they offered no service to take it back as you left or check it in with a ticket 

[stugumby]

I work in the security industry aka rent a cop/barney fife etc and our work had a big issue with "dangerous knives" as they were called in the EL TARDO memo. so basically when people enter or leave the plant they must open all bags,packs etc for a visual check. We are supposed to look for guns and "dangerous knives", well this is a distillery/bottling plant, so there is a product called slop which is basically fermented alcohol residue that is used for animal feed, looks and smells like corn flake vomit by the way. Anyhow a slop hauler comes in and in Kentucky open carry of pistols is legal, however this is on private property, and to make things more confusing the individual in question is a current and sworn local deputy/gentleman farmer carrying concealed. With the old winchester 3030 hanging from the gun rack in the cab. So that was quite a discussion indeed, the boss said he had to leave it at home or not be allowed on the property, state law says we cant do that, if a person has a concealed carry permit, that right cant be infringed upon. The retail store and entrances are clearly marked with the no gun symbol as well. A good one for the lawyers to haggle over. Back to the knives, so employee X cant have a dangerous knife, so what exactly is that, all the maint men carry folders with pocket clips, blades run from 2-4 plus inches etc and part of their issued tool sets are basic knives and box cutters etc. Plant cafe has real silverware, so evil butter knives there, not to mention standard kitchen butcher/cleaver etc, and since its a factory there is a fire axe every 75 feet in compliance with OSHA. Not to mention as a bottling plant there are plenty of bottles to pop someone upside the head with,plus the breakage pile. Cut city on a bad day, missy cant have her paring knife to cut her apple etc but lets use the fire axe to cut the cake,thank you EL TARDO. Had a big toodo with multi tools as well, since they have blades. And since lots of new construction going on well over 100 contractors a day bringing in their daily work tools and all carry a knife or multi tool of some kind. it would be nice if the people who sit in their office and make rules would actually think it through and see whats coming and going daily.

[ironraven]

Lets put it simply.

It isn't about the props. Not firearms. Not knives. Not evil scary throwing stars or the numbchucks. It's about control.

This is no different than banning books or songs or a religion, by banning how many people may gather without permission. The things that humans make are ideas, but ideas made solid. Are they less an idea, an exercise in speech and belief and human spirit, than ideas not made solid? I would say "no", they are at least real as the less tangible ones. And it all comes down to control. Control over those who surrender because they don't want to have the duties and hardships of freedom. Control of the weak and the cowardly and the stupid, the ones who want someone to protect them from scary ideas and the scary people who have scary ideas. Then control of those who do not surrender- they make a good "them", the evil, villainous "them" that every society needs to look down on. Needs to hate. Needs so that those in control can whip the terrified mob into a mass of mindless hate and rage against the THEM.

"them"- we use the word "us" to describe that group. Everyone here is part of a "them" already. The evil them.

[Sawl Goodman]

I can understand indiscriminate knife bans being a method used by elites to control the common people, or certain groups of. Here in NZ I wouldn't like to be carrying any knife if I had brown skin and was wearing a black hoodie and was stopped and searched by police - which is less likely to happen if you have white skin. But I also think it's as likely to be a form of paranoid stupidity.

[m47mu74nt]

Its their right to ask you not to bring in any items they they don't want in.  Its their property and their right.  We all have the right to decide to go or not. 

The problem with this is when it's NOT private property, or when you really DON'T have a choice, ala museums (NOT private property) and airports (don't have a choice).

that's also what caught my attention from 007's post 

I live in a city -and a country- where many many public places and apparently free access places have metal detectors.
Most hospitals, all airports, some ports, and most of if not all Government buildings -from the Department Of Agriculture to the Conference Chambers, to the Health and Public Safety agency and the offices of the Education and School Ministry- have detectors on their entrance, full size scanners 
That makes me not want to get there for consultations, conferences and speeches (happened twice, that I went the way I came  ) and other bureaucracy
 
that includes all courthouses, jails, courts...
and lots of museums.

National museums, art museums, science museums...many both private and public (and public funded) expositions, buildings and exhibitions have a metal detector for your person and X-ray for your stuff at the entrance. 

The Museo Del Prado in madrid being one example of this, arguably the most visited and frequented Art Museum of all Spain. I had to dig and hide my knife and MT outside before making it into the queue and into the museum,
they offered no service to take it back as you left or check it in with a ticket 

I'm going out in Paris this afternoon, and knowing that I may go at a Museum I'll only take a SwissCard, but no Micra, no Mountaineer, no PX or anything with big blade or many "steel" accessories.
BUT, why don't they simply offer storage boxes where you can put things you're no allowed to take in?
The Palace of Versailles features a storage zone where you can give things you shouldn't carry in there (that inclues SAKs, food, big bags and whatever they don't want in), and you take all back with you in the end (maybe not I you came in with a rifle) ==> that is the right way to go imho!

I agree with Aloha007 that we should comply with the rules of where want to come in, BUT, I don't think Aloha007 forces people to trash their shoes each time they visit?

[Syncop8r]

I heard that at an upcoming Jack White concert the taking of photos or videos is forbidden. Apparently they give you some sort of bag to put your phone into and it is somehow locked but you get to carry the bag (and hence your phone) on your person during the concert. Perhaps this could work for blades... 

[stugumby]

No way for the lockers, big liability issue there, example you give me a maxpedition sling bag, I put it in the locker then who keeps the key/swipe card? you loose the key, now we have to use our master, you howl like a little whining bitch and say, wheres my rolex, cash etc. For every good person there is a dubious individual more than willing to play you to the max. Behind the counter ticket check bins have the same problem, i left my bag, it had money in it under your care etc.

[Aloha]

I heard that at an upcoming Jack White concert the taking of photos or videos is forbidden. Apparently they give you some sort of bag to put your phone into and it is somehow locked but you get to carry the bag (and hence your phone) on your person during the concert. Perhaps this could work for blades... 

Interesting.  Very interesting idea.     

[Aloha]

I agree with Aloha007 that we should comply with the rules of where want to come in, BUT, I don't think Aloha007 forces people to trash their shoes each time they visit?

I would not dare trash your shoes.  I have shoe rack for storage and offer slippers for within my home. 

[AlephZero]

Leaving the knife at home isn't an option now?

 

[twiliter]

Leaving the knife at home isn't an option now?

 

This is true, if you don't like the rules, then don't go there, or follow the rules if you do. My gripe is when you DO follow the rules and get harrassed or detained ANYWAY.   

[AlephZero]

Leaving the knife at home isn't an option now?

 

This is true, if you don't like the rules, then don't go there, or follow the rules if you do. My gripe is when you DO follow the rules and get harrassed or detained ANYWAY.   

That's fair... Sometimes the security personnel can be somewhat too eager...

My point is, if you know you can't take your tool into some place, public or private, just leave it at home, whining about it won't change anything