My musings on the lack of grammar nazis

[AlephZero]

Not a grammar issue but rather a pronunciation one.... I'm listening to an interview on the radio with a zoo keeper who looks after orangutans and she calls them oranguTANGs. 

That´s Bahasa. The words o-rang and u-tan (orange man) both with short vowels in the first syllable and emphasis on the second.

Correct in that its Bahasa Indonesia (also in Malayan, btw), but it actually means "Orang" = man + "hutan" = forest ie. "Man of the Forest" (often "Old Man of the Forest")

[pfrsantos]

I always get "than" and "then" usage wrong

FIFY 

  alrighty then(no idea if that's the right one)

I'd rather use "than" than "then."   

I'd rather use "done" than "Dan".   

 

[Ron Who]

Not a grammar issue but rather a pronunciation one.... I'm listening to an interview on the radio with a zoo keeper who looks after orangutans and she calls them oranguTANGs. 

That´s Bahasa. The words o-rang and u-tan (orange man) both with short vowels in the first syllable and emphasis on the second.

Correct in that its Bahasa Indonesia (also in Malayan, btw), but it actually means "Orang" = man + "hutan" = forest ie. "Man of the Forest" (often "Old Man of the Forest")

It would seem I was misinformed. I have known my ´facts´ for many a year, and passed them on to others on many occasions. A bit like fake news! 

[AlephZero]

Not a grammar issue but rather a pronunciation one.... I'm listening to an interview on the radio with a zoo keeper who looks after orangutans and she calls them oranguTANGs. 

That´s Bahasa. The words o-rang and u-tan (orange man) both with short vowels in the first syllable and emphasis on the second.

Correct in that its Bahasa Indonesia (also in Malayan, btw), but it actually means "Orang" = man + "hutan" = forest ie. "Man of the Forest" (often "Old Man of the Forest")

It would seem I was misinformed. I have known my ´facts´ for many a year, and passed them on to others on many occasions. A bit like fake news! 

Not to worry, I had to do a fact check myself first just to be sure!

[ironraven]

What a great thread this is - I never knew what a clever bunch of linguistical academics multitool owners were !!      

Helps to have a common tongue. Some people want a Rosetta Stone, I give you a Swiss Army Knife.

Once you agree on "knife", we then move onto "screwdriver" and "opener". "Scissors." "Steel" and "cellidor", which leads us to Alox and contractions. And lanyards, which lead to the words for cord and knot.

Openners lead to food. Once there is food, we have to eat. That usually means someone builds a fire. FIRE! THere is a great word. 

Then we talk about what we do with the tools in our hands. We make. We fix.

We reach for our pliers based tool, and agree on more words. More tasks, more fixings, more makings. More words for more things and more actions.

Add in "rust" and "sharp" and "blood" and "ow" and "stitches". These lead to talking about death, and the end, getting old, and the things we fear. And cuss words, like "white carpet".

Then we start making the knife. So we have to go back to the fire, and make a forge. Here we create from nothing! Words of praise and curiosity. We talk of life, of birth, of making thoughts physical, and the knowing of our own limits. And going past the limits we thought we had, but no one else believed in.

We have to talk about what goes into the alloys and polymers. That leads us to the periodic table. Every element. Eventually we get to where we crack a joke- never trust atoms, they make up everything. That leads to physics, which leads to lights and electronics. And the worlds of leather and nylon and bags to carry it all in.

Pure math to figure out what our EDC is worth, and words of encouragement and of condolence when we realize how much our hobby costs us. Value, and values. The price of a broken or lost tool, or the bad one we want to lose. Empathy and alliance creates brotherhood, clan, tribe, nation. These lead to rules, laws, discourse about the path of the masses vs the path of the individual, and the realization that like mankind and the blade, that the individual and society require each other, are flawed and worthless without the other.

And our differences- a screwdriver is a lousy blade, but they shouldn't shine in the dark. The difference doesn't weaken the tool, or us. They make us more useful, if we can respect each other, fit together like the implements of a SAK or a Leatherman. Words of adaptation, cooperation, and negotiation. Fairness, it's not always your day, sometimes it's someone else's turn. Sometimes you get to shine, even when you're worn and shadowed with age like the patina on carbon steel and the wear on old wood or horn handles. Respect your elders, for no one is making more (sometimes for a reason). And never forget the oddest of us is sometimes the most flexible in it's own odd ways, like the hook. The hook leads to questions, we show a question with a hook, it gives us more words of curiosity and questing and wonder. Because we've learned the language of the blade and it's sibling tools, the balance and harmony of them, we can do this.

I could put any of us any place and any place in time, with a SAK, and that could be the start of a language lesson. Think of what Otzi or the cave painters would have made of one, to speak with the guys who got in on the first floor. Or earlier. Even when the tool wasn't made for our immediate needs of the moment, we look at it, and because we speak Blade, we can see how to adapt to the situation or make something new to fit, because when you speak a language you learn to think in it. There is a great debate about which came first, language or abstract thought. I say there was language, but the blade was the first tool MADE to make other tools, not just used but crafted and shaped. It was made to make something else, it was an abstract thought given physical form not for now, but for tommorrow and we need to do then. Past and future, tracing change, rather than every day the same day.

Even when people forget, they do not. "Sharp" could mean you dress well. Or that you are witty and fast with thought. "Point", with it's many meanings. "Proof" as a sign of truth or strength. The "cutting edge". "Shiny". When we get out THERE, in the black, if we meet anyone, we'll start off with words. "Me". "You." Numbers. "Water." And "blade". "Cutting", "shaping", "making", "origion".

The language of Blade gave us all our languages, and our (scarred) thumbs, while growing and shaping our minds.

Yep.

Pretty sure most of us speak the same language here, and belong to the same civilization.

[Ron Who]

 


Great words!

[Don Pablo]

That could be added to the Book of MTO!

[ThePeacent]

well, I read all that and was like   

then I re-read it and was like 

So true.   

[Syncop8r]

I was just TL;DR sorry.

[Blackbeard]

That was like George Carlin if he were a member here instead of a comic, good work ironraven.

[AlephZero]

That could be added to the Book of MTO!

I'm sure that would be the main scripture!

The Book of MTO, The Gospel by Ironraven...

Amen, brother! 

[El Corkscrew]

    Helluva Read

[Steinar]

I liked that one. 

The idea "speaking knife" reminded of an incident my linguist wife likes to tell about: On an island, two groups speaking different languages were stuck. The adults created a pidgin to communicate, but it only contained substantives, no verbs. The creole the children ended up creating together was a pretty straightforward language, and that had both substantives and verbs.

[ironraven]

Thanks guys.  I was a little manic last night. Origionally all I was going to saw is that a SAK is a pretty good Rosetta Stone, then... I ran away with myself.

@Syncop8r. 

The idea "speaking knife" reminded of an incident my linguist wife likes to tell about: On an island, two groups speaking different languages were stuck. The adults created a pidgin to communicate, but it only contained substantives, no verbs. The creole the children ended up creating together was a pretty straightforward language, and that had both substantives and verbs.

I think I know the case study in question. It's how all languages grow. Two groups meet, leaders need to communicate and do business, next generation does the bigger picture. Third generation has a new language.

While there is madness in my words, there are many wisdoms in them. I do truely believe that of the First Tools (blade, fire, cord, container), the nouns created by and to serve mankind, there may well be all the lessons you need to learn in life. When I have these moments and let philosophical brain cells run rampant here, I also mail them off to friends. Who first read it, to read it. Then to read again for the humor. Then for the serious literals. Then for the serious imagery and emotives. I've been told when I"m on a roll I make granite look fluffy/ This thing has been bouncing in my head like a hangover headache all day, and even for me, I was high density last night.

Does anyone know where I posted that EDC/food chain/carrot rant a few years back? I should go looking for that.

But in the meantime, I'll let this roll around in your heads like marbles in a cement mixer: what is hemoglobin? It's mostly water. It carries oxygen and fuel. And it's got an awful lot of iron and carbon in it. And it's beaten by the muscle of the heart. What is steel? Iron and carbon. Heated with oxygen and fuel, beaten by muscles and thought, and quenched with water.

[Don Pablo]

 

Does anyone know where I posted that EDC/food chain/carrot rant a few years back? I should go looking for that.

I would like to read this if it's found.

[Etherealicer]

Does anyone know where I posted that EDC/food chain/carrot rant a few years back? I should go looking for that.

I would like to read this if it's found.

I presume its THIS one

[Don Pablo]

Does anyone know where I posted that EDC/food chain/carrot rant a few years back? I should go looking for that.

I would like to read this if it's found.

I presume its THIS one

Even if it isn't... 

[Syncop8r]

@Syncop8r. 

I'll try to read it over the weekend when I don't have work-brain.

[Steinar]

But in the meantime, I'll let this roll around in your heads like marbles in a cement mixer: what is hemoglobin? It's mostly water. It carries oxygen and fuel. And it's got an awful lot of iron and carbon in it. And it's beaten by the muscle of the heart. What is steel? Iron and carbon. Heated with oxygen and fuel, beaten by muscles and thought, and quenched with water.

To make matters more fun: Hemoglobin is basically what you get if you take the magnesium in the center of the porphyrin group in chlorophyll and exchange it with iron. We breathe with “the same” molecule as frees the oxygen for us to breathe.

[ironraven]

Thanks Etherealicer, that is exactly what I was looking for. When I lost my old HDD, I also lost all my bookmarks including that one.

To make matters more fun: Hemoglobin is basically what you get if you take the magnesium in the center of the porphyrin group in chlorophyll and exchange it with iron. We breathe with “the same” molecule as frees the oxygen for us to breathe.

Nifty. So... if cut all the iron out of my diet and replace it with magnesium, I'll turn into an Ent.

[Kev D]

Thanks Etherealicer, that is exactly what I was looking for. When I lost my old HDD, I also lost all my bookmarks including that one.

To make matters more fun: Hemoglobin is basically what you get if you take the magnesium in the center of the porphyrin group in chlorophyll and exchange it with iron. We breathe with “the same” molecule as frees the oxygen for us to breathe.

Nifty. So... if cut all the iron out of my diet and replace it with magnesium, I'll turn into an Ent.

You'd certainly burn bright when they cremate you after death by magnesium poisoning

[Don Pablo]

Thanks Etherealicer, that is exactly what I was looking for. When I lost my old HDD, I also lost all my bookmarks including that one.

To make matters more fun: Hemoglobin is basically what you get if you take the magnesium in the center of the porphyrin group in chlorophyll and exchange it with iron. We breathe with “the same” molecule as frees the oxygen for us to breathe.

Nifty. So... if cut all the iron out of my diet and replace it with magnesium, I'll turn into an Ent.

You'd certainly burn bright when they cremate you after death by magnesium poisoning

At a cool 4000°F. 

[Ron Who]

Today I visited my parents. While there, I thought it cool to show my father some of the pics I posted. He´s using Google Translate to render everything in the Dutch language. WTF! It´s only because I know the names of the boards by heart, otherwise I wouldn´t even have understood what the site is about. Because I have no trouble reading English, or German, or French, I never noticed how atrociously bad Google Translate really is.

[Syncop8r]

I'm guessing the main problem is not so much translating the words correctly but getting the order of the words correct?

[Ron Who]

I'm guessing the main problem is not so much translating the words correctly but getting the order of the words correct?

Both, and worse, like replacing verbs with nouns and vice versa, and other grammatical errors.

Translating words correctly is difficult enough, because many words have more than one meaning, depending on context and general knowledge. Both the United Nations and the AI lab at MIT have spent years and millions of dollars on automatic translation and concluded such a project was infeasible in general, although in simple, limited cases there has been some success. I was surprised when Google started this, even when their resources seem unlimited. I have never used Microsoft´s speech translation software, but I suspect it can´t be much better.

[Poncho65]

I guess it gives a rough translation more than anything That way a person can get the jist of it at least

[raistlin65]

Google Translate was probably driven crazy at MTO by the use of "awl" and too many dancing bananas.

[Ron Who]

I guess it gives a rough translation more than anything That way a person can get the jist of it at least

Usually, yes. But how can you be sure if you don´t know the language that´s being translated?

[lister]

I guess it gives a rough translation more than anything That way a person can get the jist of it at least

Usually, yes. But how can you be sure if you don´t know the language that´s being translated?

Use several translators based on different technologies and compare the results? 

[Ron Who]

I guess it gives a rough translation more than anything That way a person can get the jist of it at least

Usually, yes. But how can you be sure if you don´t know the language that´s being translated?

Use several translators based on different technologies and compare the results? 

Clever. I´m not sure there are any different technologies.