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What qualifies?

us Offline papadan

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What qualifies?
on: November 06, 2018, 12:24:14 AM
What are the requirements to be called a multi-tool? Does it have to contain a knife blade?
just a tired old Multi-fool


us Offline cody6268

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 01:02:15 AM
What are the requirements to be called a multi-tool? Does it have to contain a knife blade?


Hurst markets this beast as a forcible entry multitool for law enforcement and fire departments, even though it's not the traditional definition.  Though the jaws could be considered super duty pliers.

https://www.jawsoflife.com/rescue-products/strongarm/le-military/strongarm-law-enforcement-military


us Online SteveC

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 01:04:38 AM
Just about any tool that has more than one tool and function could qualify as a Multi tool. Doesn't need to have a knife blade.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 01:09:51 AM
I have modified many of my tools to remove the knife blade. They're still multitools  ;)


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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 01:14:16 AM
Good question!

This site has been in operation for over a dozen years and I am not sure we have ever properly defined it.  After all, a tool that has multiple functions seems like a simple enough definition, but the closer you look, the harder it gets.

For example- is it just EDC type plier tools like Leatherman tools, which are largely the reason we even have the term "multitool" these days?  Maybe, but these kinds of folding plier based tools existed long before Tim Leatherman was born, let alone driving across Europe.

On the other end of the spectrum, does a claw hammer count?  I mean, it can be used for pounding nails (and other things that need pounding) and pulling them again.  Does that count as multiple functions, or are pulling and pounding nails considered to be part of the same function?  Could a hammer be referred to as a "nail management tool" and therefore singular in function?

Or, a pencil with an eraser on the end- is it a multifunction tool, or are both writing and erasing both considered the same type of function?

Maybe an axe, with a cutting edge on the front and a square hammer on the back, since those are more different functions, and not necessarily related.

Or does a multitool require more than just two functions?  If so, does the hammer still count because it can also be used for general prying duties?

It seems according to most manufacturers a blade is secondary to the two most important functions that everyone absolutely needs to survive- the bottle opener and the flathead screwdriver, both being apparently so necessary that the cheapest Asian made pot metal crapola, up to the highest end Leatherman (and all points between) absolutely must have them.

Being a bit new here you may not be familiar with the Bottle Opener Challenges we have done in the past, where someone (usually me) must use a different bottle opener every day or a month, and members further reduce the number of available openers by adding their own pictures to the list, thereby taking them out of play for me.  I have lost a few times, but mostly due to me missing a day, because let's face it, when it comes to opening bottles, we aren't spoiled for choice!

I think in the end, defining a multitool is like ordering a pizza.  Every one has their own choice of what they like and it's very rare to find two people that want the same thing.  In the end everyone compromises on something that is good enough, even if it's not the way you usually picture it.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline papadan

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 02:34:21 AM
My reason for asking is these Diamalloy Handyboy DH-16 pliers. I noticed the timeline thread and it started around the early 80s. The original model of these were made in the 30s and this pair is about 1954. One of the handiest tools I've ever had, keep it in my truck so it's always with me.
DSCI0351.JPG
* DSCI0351.JPG (Filesize: 43.68 KB)
just a tired old Multi-fool


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 02:46:39 AM
Great tool indeed!  A good friend of mine introduced me to those long ago and I always liked them.

But then there's the big question- can you open a beer with them?  :D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #7 on: November 06, 2018, 02:51:57 AM
Having multiple functions is not enough. With a knife, you can cut, drill, scrape, pry, unscrew, split etc. But it's just a blade. It is one thing. It is a multi-function tool, sure, but just one piece.
A Leatherman is a multi-tool, since it has different features: pliers, blades saw etc.
A one-piece-tool is a multi-tool, since it has multiple features: wrench slots, bottle opener, pry tip, cord cutter, ruler.

A hammer is a hammer. It may have a hammer end, and a claw end, but that's not enough to call it a multi-tool. Too few features.

But even having multiple features should not be enough.

For me, a multi-tool is a pair of multi-function pliers. The Wave, the Rebar, the MP400, the Spirit. These are multi-tools.

A SAK counts, but it is much nicer and it makes much more sense to call things by their 'names', instead of 'a multi-function something'.
A SAK is a multi-function knife, but why drop the name they have been known as for so long?
An OPT is a multi-function tool, but why confuse people? It's a bottle opener. :twak:

Calling everything a 'multi-tool' is a marketing thing. Putting saw teeth on a knife's spine, putting a bottle opener on a spork, putting a stylus tip on a pen. It's still a knife, a spork, or a pen. The Habilis Bush Tool is still a knife. The TOPS Tracker is still a knife. The Tread is a bracelet.
Multi-function? Yes. Multi-tools? No.


au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #8 on: November 06, 2018, 03:06:44 AM
My reason for asking is these Diamalloy Handyboy DH-16 pliers. I noticed the timeline thread and it started around the early 80s. The original model of these were made in the 30s and this pair is about 1954. One of the handiest tools I've ever had, keep it in my truck so it's always with me.

To me, that is not a multi-tool. They just incorporated a crescent wrench on one handle and flattened the other into a screwdriver/pry. Just like putting a saw on a knife spine.
That a pair of multi-function pliers, but not a multi-tool.


au Offline gregozedobe

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 04:39:26 AM
AUTHOR:   Lewis Carroll (1832–98)
QUOTATION:   “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
ATTRIBUTION:   LEWIS CARROLL (Charles L. Dodgson), Through the Looking-Glass, chapter 6, p. 205 (1934). First published in 1872.

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us Offline papadan

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 04:52:09 AM
Great tool indeed!  A good friend of mine introduced me to those long ago and I always liked them.

But then there's the big question- can you open a beer with them?  :D

Def

Def, just look at them big strong slip joint jaws, it will open any bottle  :cheers:  :drink:
just a tired old Multi-fool


us Offline Nix

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 02:53:23 PM
Def, just look at them big strong slip joint jaws, it will open any bottle  :cheers:  :drink:

Pic.....or it never happened.   :pok:


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 03:02:25 PM
Almost every hatchet, hammer or pliers have more than one function, but I would not consider them multitiools. For me MT (at least in the context of this site) also includes size and the ability to store the tool in its frame.

Or in a bit more detail:
- tools are stored in a handle and it has no exposed sharp stuff when closed (sorry, I know this disqualifies LM :P, but maybe we can overlook sharp frames)
- must have more than 1 function (bit-holder and bits is for me only 1 function)
- bottle opener is not a function, bottles can be opened with anything
- any combination of blades, including carpet blades are considered 1 function ( and if this is all the tool has to offer, its a multi-bladed knife and not a MT )
- any combination of blade, rescue blade, window punch, belt cutter is for me a rescue knife and not a MT (the function here is to rescue someone, so it basically has multiple tools that serve 1 function).
- must fit into pant-pockets (yes, there is a certain size constraint for me, else we could call a tool-box a MT)
- OPT are OPT not MT by definition :shrug:
- Quality. If it falls below a certain quality it looses all functionality and therefore the status MT. Those tools are commonly referred to as smurf.

So, for me the "Diamalloy Handyboy DH-16 pliers" is not a multitool. That does not mean it should not be shared and admired here, its just not what I think of, when I think of multitools.
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us Offline GrandpaPatch

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 03:47:13 PM
Having multiple functions is not enough. With a knife, you can cut, drill, scrape, pry, unscrew, split etc. But it's just a blade. It is one thing. It is a multi-function tool, sure, but just one piece.
A Leatherman is a multi-tool, since it has different features: pliers, blades saw etc.
A one-piece-tool is a multi-tool, since it has multiple features: wrench slots, bottle opener, pry tip, cord cutter, ruler.

A hammer is a hammer. It may have a hammer end, and a claw end, but that's not enough to call it a multi-tool. Too few features.

But even having multiple features should not be enough.

For me, a multi-tool is a pair of multi-function pliers. The Wave, the Rebar, the MP400, the Spirit. These are multi-tools.

A SAK counts, but it is much nicer and it makes much more sense to call things by their 'names', instead of 'a multi-function something'.
A SAK is a multi-function knife, but why drop the name they have been known as for so long?
An OPT is a multi-function tool, but why confuse people? It's a bottle opener. :twak:

Calling everything a 'multi-tool' is a marketing thing. Putting saw teeth on a knife's spine, putting a bottle opener on a spork, putting a stylus tip on a pen. It's still a knife, a spork, or a pen. The Habilis Bush Tool is still a knife. The TOPS Tracker is still a knife. The Tread is a bracelet.
Multi-function? Yes. Multi-tools? No.

 :like:  :iagree: You are correct that it is a marketing ploy, but somethings such a a claw hammer are technically a multi tool. The hammer head is one side and the claw tool is a seperate tool on the other side of the same piece of metal. Maybe we should refer to hammer's as OPTs?

To clarify I reference the first paragraph of the home page of the Multitool Encyclopedia "What exactly is a multitool? Taken literally, the term could refer to any device which has more than one function, such as a claw hammer or a pencil with an eraser on the opposite end. In reality though, say the word "multitool" and most people visualize a set of folding pliers, with an array of folding blades and screwdrivers fanning out from the handles. In short, most people think of a Leatherman.'
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si Offline lister

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 05:58:39 PM
A tool which has may functions but none of them couldn't be done better with a more speSmurfpillsed tool?

Take an axe, it is an axe and a hammer. Nothing is a better axe than an axe. But there are tools that make a better hammer. Just to mention one: A hammer.

On the other hand a vic has many functions, none of which couldn't be done better with another tool.

 :D
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us Offline papadan

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #15 on: November 07, 2018, 01:51:24 AM
Def, just look at them big strong slip joint jaws, it will open any bottle  :cheers:  :drink:

Pic.....or it never happened.   :pok:

So Nix is the hard one huh! Well just for you.... drink up!  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
DSCI0364.JPG
* DSCI0364.JPG (Filesize: 92.37 KB)
just a tired old Multi-fool


us Offline cody6268

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #16 on: November 07, 2018, 02:28:45 AM
I carry a DH-16 with me every day. Light, but strong. I mean, not only is it the lightest pair of full-size pliers I have, but also the equivalent of a 4" adjustable wrench and a screwdriver/pry tool.


In my mind, a multitool is one thing, consisting of multiple functions that are either integrated into, or fold out of the handle. They can be solid state, or folding in function.


us Offline Nix

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #17 on: November 07, 2018, 03:18:25 AM
So Nix is the hard one huh! Well just for you.... drink up!  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


OK, you got me with that.  :salute:

 :like:


pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #18 on: November 07, 2018, 04:11:14 PM
Just about any tool that has more than one tool and function could qualify as a Multi tool. Doesn't need to have a knife blade.

Yup, I'd say this...

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pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #19 on: November 07, 2018, 04:16:01 PM
Good question!

This site has been in operation for over a dozen years and I am not sure we have ever properly defined it.  After all, a tool that has multiple functions seems like a simple enough definition, but the closer you look, the harder it gets.

For example- is it just EDC type plier tools like Leatherman tools, which are largely the reason we even have the term "multitool" these days?  Maybe, but these kinds of folding plier based tools existed long before Tim Leatherman was born, let alone driving across Europe.

On the other end of the spectrum, does a claw hammer count?  I mean, it can be used for pounding nails (and other things that need pounding) and pulling them again.  Does that count as multiple functions, or are pulling and pounding nails considered to be part of the same function?  Could a hammer be referred to as a "nail management tool" and therefore singular in function?

Or, a pencil with an eraser on the end- is it a multifunction tool, or are both writing and erasing both considered the same type of function?

Maybe an axe, with a cutting edge on the front and a square hammer on the back, since those are more different functions, and not necessarily related.

Or does a multitool require more than just two functions?  If so, does the hammer still count because it can also be used for general prying duties?

It seems according to most manufacturers a blade is secondary to the two most important functions that everyone absolutely needs to survive- the bottle opener and the flathead screwdriver, both being apparently so necessary that the cheapest Asian made pot metal crapola, up to the highest end Leatherman (and all points between) absolutely must have them.

Being a bit new here you may not be familiar with the Bottle Opener Challenges we have done in the past, where someone (usually me) must use a different bottle opener every day or a month, and members further reduce the number of available openers by adding their own pictures to the list, thereby taking them out of play for me.  I have lost a few times, but mostly due to me missing a day, because let's face it, when it comes to opening bottles, we aren't spoiled for choice!

I think in the end, defining a multitool is like ordering a pizza.  Every one has their own choice of what they like and it's very rare to find two people that want the same thing.  In the end everyone compromises on something that is good enough, even if it's not the way you usually picture it.

Def


 :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :like: :gimme:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



us Offline ironraven

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Re: What qualifies?
Reply #20 on: November 08, 2018, 02:12:32 AM
I would say a tool having multiple, disparate common functions in its intended usage, unified in a single assembly or small package.

A claw hammer would not be as the abilities to drive and pull a nail are halves of the same mission, just as (one piece) screwdriver is not as to drive or draw a screw is part and parcel of the take.

Since you're going well outside it's intended usage, using a powerdrill as a motor to power something like a small belt sander, while it can be done probably doesn't make your drill a multitool.

Many OPTs are not, or they are so badly implemented while they may techinically be multitools they are defacto non-multitools.

I will absolutely argue that something like the Handiboy is a multitool. And if they made one with a 1/4" bit holder or socket stud rather than a fixed screwdriver on the other side I'd be very interested depending on price point.

A 1/4" hex bit holder's inclusion in being a multitool is open to debate. I would argue it is as it's a holder with multiple options, and I EDC an Exacto holder, a 3/36" punch and a few other items for one; I've seen light tack hammer heads and adjustable wrench heads for them (used to be carried by Lowes, and I regret not getting the wrench), along being used to hold files and rasps. I also accept that these are not part of the original intent of the design, so the argument can be made that we're now outside of the intended usage. However, since the old style interchangeable blade screwdrivers such as the type still made as the  Xcelite 99 series often included light duty or cobbler's hammers, awls, reamers, gimlets, various small saws and knife blades going back decades, I'd counter argue that the change in shank styles does not change the design paradigm and any more than a change in materials would. Yet is not a unified package, so therefore.... Simply put, YMMV

Multiple functions, compact size. How compact is compact is also a question.
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