Rescue Knives vs. Belt

[Etherealicer]

So I got a new (very pretty) resuce knife, that sadly does not seem to cut that well. So, I decided to make a cutting test.
The challenge was to test how easily the knives/hookes would cut through a 25mm wide belt. The belt is quite old and has faded from black to grey.
Just to be clear, his is a test on how well the individual tools cut that belt, nothing more.

FAIL

Leatherman Signal Serrated Blade
That came really unexpected and shocked me. I tried several times and every time, I got stuck. Somehow, the teeth of the serration don't work on that material. Never would have guessed that this is even possible.
I was able to cut the belt with the short plain edge though.
On the picture you can see the cut, the PE part made, close to the blade, the damage to the belt was made by the serrated part.
On the 2nd picture you can see the serrated part of the blade vs some newspaper and it cuts reasonably well (serrated edges don't give as clean cuts as straight ones).

Leatherman Mut Cutting Hook
That one was the worst but hardly as surprising or disappointing as the Signal. Very awkward to use and hardly managed to damage the belt.
Sidenote: the blade worked reasonably well, performin in the same league as the Wave serrated blade.

Gerber Hinderer Rescue Knife Hook
Despite my best effords I was not able to cut the belt. I got half way through, not enough... poor performance for a Rescue knife.

Böker Cop Tool Serrated Blade
See here

[Etherealicer]

PASS, but barely

Edelried Rescue Canyoning Knife
Love the design, looks well made, but out of the box it looked dull. A quick test confirmed it, that is why I started this.
It barely managed to cut the belt and it required a tremendous amount of strength, for me clearly performing below expectations for a rescue knife.
Will try to sharpen that knife, but I'm very dissapointed by that.

[Nix]

Nice testing, E! 

[Etherealicer]

PASS

Gerber Bullrush Hook
First hook to pass, did fairly well by ranking just below the LM Wave blade. I tested this after the Gerber Hinderer Rescue and was really surprised how much better that hook is.

Charge Rescue Hook
See here

Wave Serrated Blade (and Mut semi-serrated blade)
Barely used but also never sharpened it did cut well and the cut was fairly clean. Still, I feel it performed below expectation.

Gerber Hinderer Rescue Serrated Blade
Well, at least the blade is not a complete waste. But considering the size of the blade, still below expectation.

Fox ERT Rescue Knife
A massive knife with a massive (fat, 5mm at the spine) blade. Like the Hinderer rescue performance was below expectation.

[Etherealicer]

PASS, CUM LAUDE

Wenger Mike Horn Serrated Blade
That was easy. I would have guessed this knife would make the top 3, but it didn't.

Victorinox Spirit Butterblade
A good deal smaller than the Mike Horn blade, yet worked even better.

Benchmade Mini-Griptillian
That one was in my pocket, so I thought why not. PE blade that needs soon to be sharpened again did perform way above my expectations. Smooth cut, very easy... who needs serrations.
I would like to add here, that the smoothness of the cut did not factor in. I rated the knifes purely on how easy the cut felt.

Spyderco Dragonfly II H1 Serrated
Tiny knife, but it does cut like crazy. I so do hope they make a serrated sheepfoot blade of this some day.

Böker Cop Tool Hook
See here

[Etherealicer]

PASS, MAGNA CUM LAUDE

Fox ERT Rescue Hook
Never would have guessed that a hook would make it that high up and that it would outperform its twin. Basically, this is how a hook should work, buttersmooth cutting. Not sure how practicable that hook is in reality with that prybar tip. But in this test it worked really well.

[Etherealicer]

PASS, SUMMA CUM LAUDE

#2 Victorinox Rescue Tool & Victorinox Hunter XT Gutting Blade
This is how a rescue blade should cut, no efford required.

#1 Spyderco Clipit Rescue
After the stellar performance of the Dragonfly II, I was not surprised that its bigger brother surpassed every other blade I have.

This was a close call.
Pure cutting performance the Spyderco has a slight edge over the Vics. Locking is clearly also a bonus (though the Hunter has that too). The Spyderco has by far the widest blade with the bluntest tip, which could be problematic when having to get under a belt. I think the tip of the Rescue Tool would work best (I will try to make a test for that)

[Etherealicer]

Nice testing, E! 

[SteveC]

Good job on the comparisons !   

[Etherealicer]

Forgot one

Böker Cop Tool Serrated Blade - FAIL
The short blade was only capable of cutting 2/3 of the belt in a single cut. It also had similar problems to the Signal and wanted to get stuck, loads of force required to get the incomplete cut.

Böker Cop Tool Hook - PASS, CUM LAUDE
Wow, that hook actually works really well. Lots smoother than the Bullrush, not as good as the Fox Hook. Of the tested hooks probably the most useful (I have to put my Charge back together to test that hook).

[Etherealicer]

Here it goes

Charge Rescue Hook - PASS
Works similar well to the Bullrush hook

[styx]

Nice testing. Glad to see that Spyderco Rescue has done good

[Nix]

Great stuff, E!    

[eamo]

Great job, thanks for the info; What was your test criteria ? As in, cut the belt with one pass vs having to cut a few times ? Stoked that the dragonfly done such a good job I'm trying to convince myself I need one 

I done something similar during the week by coincidence, though not as thorough or as well documented as your tests. One of my dogs ate both front seat-belts in my van a while ago and I had to replace them so after looking at them in my workshop I decided to see how my resqueme would cut the belt - it cut it but took a bit of work, I would not like to be using it under severe pressure.

My spyderco saver salt, cut through the belt in one go and the other knife I tried is a Palm Equipment folding serrated knife aimed at paddlers - it cut the belt but took a couple passes.

I only done this early in the week and was thinking of starting a thread, I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents to your thread ?   

[Etherealicer]

Great job, thanks for the info; What was your test criteria ? As in, cut the belt with one pass vs having to cut a few times ? Stoked that the dragonfly done such a good job I'm trying to convince myself I need one 

I done something similar during the week by coincidence, though not as thorough or as well documented as your tests. One of my dogs ate both front seat-belts in my van a while ago and I had to replace them so after looking at them in my workshop I decided to see how my resqueme would cut the belt - it cut it but took a bit of work, I would not like to be using it under severe pressure.

My spyderco saver salt, cut through the belt in one go and the other knife I tried is a Palm Equipment folding serrated knife aimed at paddlers - it cut the belt but took a couple passes.

I only done this early in the week and was thinking of starting a thread, I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents to your thread ?   

For a pass it was required that the belt is cut in one go. The grading is based on how easy it is and how much of the available real estate it required. While as a rule of thumb, knives that cut better give a cleaner cut, that is not a 100% correlation and I did NOT include the cleanness of the cut into the ranking. After all, if you are in a rescue situation you want the belt/rope/whatever cut and you don't care how clean the cut is, only how easy it is to cut it (especially if you have to cut in an awkward position, while battling panic).

The Dragonfly family is my favorite line from Sypderco, great little knives.

I think the Benchmade showed that a good knife is a good knife, no matter what you cut. What surprised me most is that serrations can get stuck.

P.S.: do you have a picture?

[ThePeacent]

excellent stuff, 
very good comparison 

I am a fan of hook and rescue type blades and have read a lot on web and belt cutting.
Factors to have in mind regarding the belt:

1 - thickness, width, material

2 - condition (wet, old, new) and positioning & retention (so that it stays firm as you cut it and doesn't flop or turn)

regarding the blade:

1 - serrations need to be sharp to cut well, and the pattern should be non-spikey (shallower teeth and scallops work better, hanging less) 

2 - the longer the blade the better and more powerful, with an obvious limit for dexterity and maneuverability 

3 - Ideally the blade should be concave, not convex (the bellied blades allow the material to slip away, the curved blades grab it and won't release until it is cut thus the typical hook shape). Hawkbills are also excellent pull cutters for this reason 

4 - if the blade is a hook, the wider the sharpened area and the more surface between the spine and the edge, the more efficiently it will cut

5 - if the blade is a hook, the thinner the behind-the-edge thickness and stock, the better it will cut, but we should not sacrifice strength ro rigidity

6 - if the blade is straight (wharncliffe or sheepsfoot) a serration pattern will help in retaining the belt and avoiding slippage

of course those may seem like obvious things  but there's a lot involving making a proper rescue balde and/or  belt cutter
Excellent testing and results!!! 

My personal favorites are the SOG V-Cutter, the Lil'Matriarch, the DF2 Salt, the Spyderco Tasman and a Utility knife that I have with replaceable hook blades 

[Poncho65]

Excellent bunch of testing Eth I was surprised by some of the ones that didn't make the cut (pun intended ) and by others that did Will make choosing a rescue blade a bit less of a chore with all of these pics and results

[eamo]

P.S.: do you have a picture?

Etherealicer pics are on the way, I'll try have some today.

Peacent, great points - your observations on hawkbills intrigue me, I started a thread a few days (which you posted in, thanks), I'm trying to decide between a dragonfly salt hawkbill or a serrated blade . . . thing is i want a general use blade and feel the the serrated blade more suited . . . . decisions decisions . . . .

[eamo]

Ok a picture as promised 

Top is Palm Equipment rescue knife - this took two goes to cut through the seatbelt, first cut about 80% and the second finished the job.

Middle is the Spyderco Saver Salt - took one cut though theres was a thread or two left, these broke easily without needing a second run.

Bottom the resqume - this was a chore, basically took about 40 seconds to cut through the seatbelt if thats all you have then it'll do the job. Possibly there is a technique to using it that I'm not aware of, more research needed.

Finally, I had some tat lieing around (some old 10mm climbing rope) - the Palm knife needed 3 passes to finish the job, the Spyderco took 2 pretty much cut all the way through but left a piece of the outer sheath, i think if the blade was longer it'd do it in one go, but it's not and it didn't. Both knives cut clean.

[ThePeacent]

Bottom the resqume - this was a chore, basically took about 40 seconds to cut through the seatbelt if thats all you have then it'll do the job. Possibly there is a technique to using it that I'm not aware of, more research needed.

you don't have to hit the belt with the hammer tip to get through it 

PS: The DF Hawk has been a true success and a major hit for Spyderco this year, I'd love to put my hands on one!! 

[eamo]

you don't have to hit the belt with the hammer tip to get through it 

huh, shiney, I'll try that next time 

PS: The DF Hawk has been a true success and a major hit for Spyderco this year, I'd love to put my hands on one!! 

Yeah, I think i'd get more use out of the regular serrated DF, still very undecided, I must go back and re-read that thread i started.

[eamo]

I tried the same test with a serrated dragonfly salt - it took two cuts to go through the seatbelt, but cut easily both times, also took two attempts to cut through the rope. For such a small knife i am impressed. It cut cleanly, the cut it made is the one by the lanyard.

[ThePeacent]

yup those Salts are mean rope/belt cutters   

I wonder how my Jumpmaster would fare against them
 

[Gerhard Gerber]

Like everyone said, excellent testing! 

Spyderco Dragonfly II H1 Serrated
Tiny knife, but it does cut like crazy. I so do hope they make a serrated sheepfoot blade of this some day.

  I thought they had, checked but it's the Manbug Rescue Salt.

[styx]

yup those Salts are mean rope/belt cutters   

I wonder how my Jumpmaster would fare against them
 

(Image removed from quote.)

just look at it, it would have sliced everything in half. including Thanos and Wolverine

[ThundahBeagle]

If I may interject...

Great testing, Sir Ether...Well done.

Peacent - all good points!

Eamo...respectfully...by your own standards, the Spyderco should be tops. If the Palm knife cuts 80 percent on first cut but needed a second cut, why is it considered tops if the Spyderco that cuts 95 -99% in one cut- leaving only threads- considered second? As an ex EMT, I am curious for your answer on this, as I already know my answer. Being on the highway at night in the rain, trying to extricate someone from a car, or cutting a kayaker free, I would rather cut once and pull, instead of cut twice and pull. Are you being fair in your assessment?

Ether- I know there may be very little difference, but could you please put the Byrd Cara Cara 2 "Rescue 2" through the same test (if you have one)? I am curious if we get good "bang for the buck?" I am thinking of getting either a Spyderco Atlantic Salt or a Byrd Rescue 2 and would love to know what a difference $90 can make (aside from rust resistance).

I have found that my Leatherman Surge serrated sheepsfoot blade cuts through nylon webbing belt and velcro strips like butter. I imagine it is similar to the Wave in this respect.

Thanks Ether!

[eamo]

If I may interject...

Great testing, Sir Ether...Well done.

Peacent - all good points!

Eamo...respectfully...by your own standards, the Spyderco should be tops. If the Palm knife cuts 80 percent on first cut but needed a second cut, why is it considered tops if the Spyderco that cuts 95 -99% in one cut- leaving only threads- considered second? As an ex EMT, I am curious for your answer on this, as I already know my answer. Being on the highway at night in the rain, trying to extricate someone from a car, or cutting a kayaker free, I would rather cut once and pull, instead of cut twice and pull. Are you being fair in your assessment?

Ether- I know there may be very little difference, but could you please put the Byrd Cara Cara 2 "Rescue 2" through the same test (if you have one)? I am curious if we get good "bang for the buck?" I am thinking of getting either a Spyderco Atlantic Salt or a Byrd Rescue 2 and would love to know what a difference $90 can make (aside from rust resistance).

I have found that my Leatherman Surge serrated sheepsfoot blade cuts through nylon webbing belt and velcro strips like butter. I imagine it is similar to the Wave in this respect.

Thanks Ether!

Hi TB the palm was the first of the 3 I tested. I didn't rank them.

[ThePeacent]

Ether- I know there may be very little difference, but could you please put the Byrd Cara Cara 2 "Rescue 2" through the same test (if you have one)? I am curious if we get good "bang for the buck?" I am thinking of getting either a Spyderco Atlantic Salt or a Byrd Rescue 2 and would love to know what a difference $90 can make (aside from rust resistance).

well, TB, I am not Eamo but I'd say that yo should get the Byrd first, 
if it satisfies your needs then great (I've read very good stuff about it, in many places) and if not you're not out much money,
if you love the format then you can upgrade to the Atlantic, and I bet the performance (other than steel edge life and retention and rust) will be very similar,  and you will have two knives
I am in love with the Byrd line and would recommend them to anyone,
and if you try one I bet you won't be disappointed,  $20 is not a big deal, especially if the alternative is $90, which you can get later in the future or save for  if you like the format

[ThundahBeagle]

If I may interject...

Great testing, Sir Ether...Well done.

Peacent - all good points!

Eamo...respectfully...by your own standards, the Spyderco should be tops. If the Palm knife cuts 80 percent on first cut but needed a second cut, why is it considered tops if the Spyderco that cuts 95 -99% in one cut- leaving only threads- considered second? As an ex EMT, I am curious for your answer on this, as I already know my answer. Being on the highway at night in the rain, trying to extricate someone from a car, or cutting a kayaker free, I would rather cut once and pull, instead of cut twice and pull. Are you being fair in your assessment?

Ether- I know there may be very little difference, but could you please put the Byrd Cara Cara 2 "Rescue 2" through the same test (if you have one)? I am curious if we get good "bang for the buck?" I am thinking of getting either a Spyderco Atlantic Salt or a Byrd Rescue 2 and would love to know what a difference $90 can make (aside from rust resistance).

I have found that my Leatherman Surge serrated sheepsfoot blade cuts through nylon webbing belt and velcro strips like butter. I imagine it is similar to the Wave in this respect.

Thanks Ether!

Hi TB the palm was the first of the 3 I tested. I didn't rank them.

Top is Palm Equipment rescue knife - this took two goes to cut through the seatbelt, first cut about 80% and the second finished the job.

Middle is the Spyderco Saver Salt - took one cut though theres was a thread or two left, these broke easily without needing a second run.

Bottom the resqume - this was a chore...


Ah, my apologies,  Eamo. I mistook description of physical position in the photo, for ranking.

I'll be over here earing my hat...

[ThundahBeagle]

Ether- I know there may be very little difference, but could you please put the Byrd Cara Cara 2 "Rescue 2" through the same test (if you have one)? I am curious if we get good "bang for the buck?" I am thinking of getting either a Spyderco Atlantic Salt or a Byrd Rescue 2 and would love to know what a difference $90 can make (aside from rust resistance).

well, TB, I am not Eamo but I'd say that yo should get the Byrd first, 
if it satisfies your needs then great (I've read very good stuff about it, in many places) and if not you're not out much money,
if you love the format then you can upgrade to the Atlantic, and I bet the performance (other than steel edge life and retention and rust) will be very similar,  and you will have two knives
I am in love with the Byrd line and would recommend them to anyone,
and if you try one I bet you won't be disappointed,  $20 is not a big deal, especially if the alternative is $90, which you can get later in the future or save for  if you like the format

Thank you,  Peacent. Your affinity for Spyderco and Byrd is indeed one that would indicate extensive understanding in this case.

I read several reviews as well, including a couple from a guy on the Spyderco forums called Pete1977 or something. Seems he is a Massachusetts guy who operates a tugboat and alternately a lobster boat. He's had quite a relationship with Spyderco and Byrd as well, often receiving new models as a gift from Sal himself, who seems to enjoy using Pete as a real world test environment.  Pete uses them hard and puts them away wet, as the saying goes. Small state- Massachusetts,  but I'm not surprised I've not met this Pete, as I've never owned a Spyderco product, nor do I go out lobstering.

On Amazon, I found the Atlantic Salt in yellow with no shackle key, for $70-$80. In a Boston Army and Navy store, it retails full $130 with the shackle key. Big difference compared to $25 including shipping for the Byrd Rescue 2. Hmmm, let me think...

I just ordered the Byrd Cara Cara Rescue 2 from Amazon earlier today, and should have it by Wednesday evening.

Thank you for the encouragement and info,  Peacent.