Mass stabbing in Sydney shopping center

[ReamerPunch]

In case you missed it, there was a mass stabbing in a shopping centre in Sydney on Saturday. A man went in with a knife and started attacking people. The perpetrator was shot and killed by a police officer who happened to be nearby. A security guard was killed, another one was injured. Six people have died so far. 12 in hospital. Horrific.

[Vidar]

It was on the news here. Utterly senseless coward causing so much grief and harm. Horrific indeed.

[Echotech]

Dreadful and senseless

[ThundahBeagle]

Thoughts and prayers for the victims and families of those affected.

It seems no matter what gets banned, something else gets picked up and used in a way that it shouldn't.

Hopefully a dive into the suspects past (much easier in the time of social media) will reveal a motive, a stressor factor, and the long-term background leading up to this horror.

I'm guessing the early signs were there:  playing with fire, cruelty to animals and wetting the bed.

[ReamerPunch]

Two more stabbings, a priest during mass and a 16yo boy in a party. What is going on?

I might have to cut down on challenges, or do a Raptor challenge. I don't want to get in trouble carrying a Manager in public, let alone a Signal.

[ReamerPunch]

I am assuming the knife import laws will change.

[Echotech]

Similar thoughts have crossed my mind RP

[m47mu74nt]

Very sad news
Once again, real (life threatening) problems that will get answered by the most useless and dumb legislative answers
I imagine the murderer didn't do it with a SAK (or even a Microtech OTF?) but more likely with a kitchen knife like it happens over here?

[Sea Monster]

More or less exactly as everyone assumes from the get go -

Yes, mental health issues (and there's a fair bit behind that - in that, for years (decades?) the resources and facilities for providing appropriate support and care for those with mental illnesses has been stripped down to far less than what is required. - I'm not that interested in calling the perpetrator a coward or a bed wetter. The world is a crap place, between that, personal trauma, and the genetic lottery - some of us break.
The violence, horrific as it was, was not done (as far as anyone can tell) for profit or ideology.


and yes, they are planning to "tighten" "weapons" laws to "stop it happening again" - but, as you might suspect, it wasn't done by someones who EDCs a multitool or pocket knife, it was done by someone who probably doesn't carry a knife at all except this one time they grabbed a kitchen knife for the purposes of their intended violence.

As it stands you can already get 4 years in gaol for having "custody" of a knife in a public place.

So...yeah.

I've already "downgraded" from an LM wave to Gerber Crucial for my EDC, as it is a bit less "pointy" - but with this I might have to consider MTs a fond memory, it's not worth the risk and struggle if I meet the wrong cop (or "concerned citizen")

[Grant Lamontagne]

This is getting dangerously close to being political, and my post is not likely to help that much.   

If I thought for one moment that knife laws, gun laws, breed specific legislation and other reactionary bullsmurf laws would actually keep things like this from happening, I'd drive the confiscation truck myself.

Sadly, it won't.  It never will.  We end up with more idiotic laws and more corresponding problems because governments don't actually address the underlying problem, because that's not going to be solved in four years and doesn't get them re elected.

Mental health is a serious, significant issue that is killing more people than anyone wants to admit.  Until we realize that and actually take steps to do something about it, the idiots in charge will keep blaming inanimate objects for people's poor choices.

Def

[Vidar]

Yes, mental health issues (and there's a fair bit behind that - in that, for years (decades?) the resources and facilities for providing appropriate support and care for those with mental illnesses has been stripped down to far less than what is required. - I'm not that interested in calling the perpetrator a coward or a bed wetter. The world is a crap place, between that, personal trauma, and the genetic lottery - some of us break.
The violence, horrific as it was, was not done (as far as anyone can tell) for profit or ideology.

I can certainly agree to the importance of mental health, and over here that is certainly a field that should get a lot more resources. But lets be careful about blaming this on mental health alone - most people with mental health issues are well in control and would never ever do actions like these. To perpetrator here was clearly an extreme case, but whether it was really no self-control, or possibly a self-triggered or avoidable issue, we will likely never know. In retrospect one could say the mental health system failed either way.

As for me saying coward that was more about my lack of better words to express my disregard and lack of respect for the action and the person doing the killings and stabbings. The motive isn't all that interesting to me - I don't see any possible justification anyway. I've been at the outskirts of a similar case some years ago, and honestly there is absolutely nothing that could make me respect that perpetrator or similar ones. Legal guilt or not is a different question than my personal feelings.

I'll stop here.

[ThundahBeagle]

More or less exactly as everyone assumes from the get go -

...- I'm not that interested in calling the perpetrator a coward or a bed wetter...

The bed wetting I mentioned comes from a triad of behavior that most serial killers or mass murderers have in common:

*playing with fire beyond the normal curiosity
*cruelty to animals beyond the age of reason (opposed to a toddler pulling the dogs tail, vs 16 year old who hurts animals on purpose)
*bed-wetting beyond toddler age

Not name-calling, but citing FBI studies, that's all.  And usually one or all of these traits indicate abuse to the child or some mental bent or both.  These alone do not mean your kid will be a killer, but most serial killers or Mass murderers have one or all of these traits in their background

[ThundahBeagle]

I can certainly agree to the importance of mental health, and over here that is certainly a field that should get a lot more resources. But lets be careful about blaming this on mental health alone

Agree.  Even most people with mental issues still know right from wrong.  When was the last time someone committed a murder or mass murder right in front of a police officer?  People generally dont, including people with mental issues.  Because they know they'd be caught, so they are in control of thier actions enough to wait until the police have passed.
Generally

And I dont necessary think it's wrong to ascribe the word coward, on a case by case basis.  Many mass murderers kill themselves because they dont want to face the punishment for doing something they know is wrong.  They could just as easily kill themselves but they want to take it out on society, and then not stand for judgment and take the penalty.

[ThundahBeagle]

"I've already "downgraded" from an LM wave to Gerber Crucial for my EDC, as it is a bit less "pointy" - but with this I might have to consider MTs a fond memory, it's not worth the risk and struggle if I meet the wrong cop (or "concerned citizen")"

The sad thing is that good people who have done nothing wrong may be punished, and like you, have already taken that punishment upon themselves.

Cars have killed more people than any of my knives or firearms, yet our use of cars has not been curtailed because some goof drives drunk and kills someone.  They aren't forcing me into a "less pointy" car or less brick-like truck.

[Sea Monster]

Cars have killed more people than any of my knives or firearms, yet our use of cars has not been curtailed because some goof drives drunk and kills someone.  They aren't forcing me into a "less pointy" car or less brick-like truck.

Yes and no. We have what some people would call very high penalties for what some people would call minor traffic offences, endless campaigns, and lobby groups seeking to effectively remove cars from roads in high density residential areas.

We don't have an aged-vehicle tax *yet* - but Australia has quite old cars on the road (the buy-in costs, stamp duties, insurances etc make upgrading cars regularly out of reach for "most" of the population - so we have a lot of cars getting around without airbags, stability control, ABS, etc....)

We also have a high tax on purchase of fuel, and increasingly strict licensing requirements (and renewal costs), we have mandatory Third-Party insurance to cover injuries to people, and Emergency Services Levy to cover the cost of those services, as well as victims-of-crime levy (that is, if you commit a crime, even if there is no victim, part of your fine is a levy (a tax on a fine?) to fund compensation of victims in the event another crime is committed somewhere else that does have a victim)

So...no we are not "banned" from driving cars - but through regulation, taxation (of various types), and strict policing*, we are strongly discouraged from using them, in the interests of, uh, safety.


*On two occasions in the last 12 months, Police have blockaded our largest capital city (there's only a few major roads out, since it is stuck between mountains and the ocean) and conducted 100% breath tests of all drivers.

We have fixed and mobile and time-over-distance speed detection devices, and we have phone-detection cameras, and every police patrolcar is fitted with speed detection, as well as registration and insurance checking capability - not to mention alcohol breath testing capability.

We have laws that if you are caught exceeding the speed limit by 45km/h (28 miles) - the government will turn your car into a rather interesting coffee table - and they'll display it in public, as a warning to other...cars.

(Section 20 of the Criminal Law (Clamping, Impounding and Forfeiture of Vehicles) Act 2007, empowers the Police Commissioner with making the decision regarding the method of disposal of vehicles forfeited by the court. This includes the option to sell or crush a vehicle.

The public crushing of the car should be seen as a deterrent for other road users.)

No expense is spared in monitoring and policing road users. Whether that meets the definition for "curtailed", I'm not really sure.

[nate j]

Every innocent life cut short is a tragedy.

However, some perspective is helpful…

Collectively and on average, we live in the  most peaceful and prosperous age in human history.  We forget this, and our perspective becomes skewed, because we have a massive worldwide media conglomerate that relentlessly focuses on the most horrifically sensational material they can find in an endless quest for more views/clicks/subscriptions/revenue.

Some level of violence is inevitable.  But people, not objects, are the root cause.  If all guns and knives magically disappeared, I’m convinced we would be hearing and reading about mass clubbings. And, shortly thereafter would come the calls for background checks before purchasing, registration of, licensing of owners of, and perhaps even an outright ban on, baseball bats.

Finally, consider that even in a tightly controlled setting, such as a prison, guards are not necessarily able to prevent inmates from stabbing other inmates, or guards for that matter, 100% of the time.  And if safety were a guarantee, would you then want to voluntarily live in a prison?

[Echotech]

I agree with much of what’s being said here

Specifically on knife laws and crime here in Sydney and New South Wales (as they do slightly vary around the country) I read in today’s Sydney Morning Herald that knife crime has been steadily decreasing, noticeably so in the last 10 years

[Grant Lamontagne]

Just a quick thought on mental health issues

You are absolutely right when you say that people suffering from mental health issues aren't all murderous.  I think that goes without saying, or else we would be seeing some much greater effects.

That having been said, I don't believe that anyone not suffering from mental health issues of one sort or another would commit mass murder.  The urge to lash out like that simply does not come from a well adjusted, calm, rational place.

So, whole I agree, not all mental health sufferers are likely to be mass murderers, I'd argue that all mass murderers are suffering mental health issues of some sort or another.

I would further argue that, while laws put in place to restrict inanimate objects is furthering the stress placed on people, encouraging the mental health issues that could potentially lead to these kinds of issues.

And, that while regulation of inanimate objects unfairly punishes those who are not a threat to anyone, increased funding into helping people deal with mental health issues helps everyone, threat or not.

Let's face it, we have all had our bad times, and we have all had (and given) help from time to time, and it always makes you feel better.  When you feel good, you don't think about killing a bunch of random strangers.

Just to build on the OP, we just passed the four year anniversary of the worst mass shooting in Canada, which happened right here.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84458.0.html

Sadly, the death toll has continued to rise as a result of this, as there have been related suicides since, from people unable to deal with this incident happening literally in their back yards.  Details haven't emerged yet, but there was another incident a few days ago that have yet to be reported on, likely because the police are unsure of how to report it just yet.  I fear the news will be more related deaths.

And yet, governments worldwide continue to pretend that firearms and knives are the problem despite (near) complete bans on both in the UK and people stabbing eachother with screwdrivers instead. 

And, all the while, mental health issues grow and get worse and worse.

And we sit here and do nothing about it.

Def