(Not) My Design for a Multitool

supratentorial · **Reply #60 on:** April 12, 2007, 05:38:53 AM

Quote from: Tom Munch on April 09, 2007, 01:48:12 AM

The driver in the top snaps into the handle. Handles probably have to be longer.

Somehow I missed your updates when I was here earlier.

Is the driver ratcheting? Don't forget the awl...of course J-sews could make one for the bit driver!

I like the concept--esp the outside accessible tools! You got me thinking about the details though....How will you fit all the implements inside when the plier wrench is closed? On the 7", the plier wrench head is around 1.5" wide, around 3" long, and a little less than a 1/2" thick (rough measurements). What dimensions do you think will accomodate all the tools?

How will the pivots work so that the handles don't fold up when the plier wrench jaws are open? Will the pivots work like the ones on Leatherman Tools?

supratentorial · **Reply #61 on:** April 12, 2007, 05:51:18 AM

Quote from: Tom Munch on April 09, 2007, 02:00:26 AM

Turns out Wiha makes a water pump Cobra plier too.

I have the 7" basic Cobra plier from Wiha. I got it free with a $100 purchase. Maybe it's just because it's the basic model but I wasn't impressed. It seems way too thin to me but I'm no expert on water pump pliers. I haven't seen the Knipex version or the top of the line Wiha versions except online. I really don't ever need a water pump plier though (it was just a freebie).

Tom Munch · **Reply #62 on:** April 12, 2007, 06:00:45 AM

I've definitely not decided for sure on the mix of tools I like. I'm open to suggestions. This is just what I would use personally.

The drivers are not ratcheting. I decided that wasn't as important if the driver was detachable. Notice that both ends will hold double-ended bits, making carrying extra bits in the tool less important since you'll already have four with you. You can also get more torque with the longer handle on the short end. Obviously a ratchet would be great to have too.

I'm thinking the tool will have to be longer to accommodate the larger plier head. I haven't worked out a length. It depends on how long the driver & middle tools end up.

I think the pivots will have to lock in place at least by friction so that the handles don't fold back on themselves when opening the pliers. Most multitools including Leatherman have this kind of friction when fully open.

I'd be less likely to want an awl myself since I don't hardly use one.

Do you like the utility knife blade?

Any other suggestions?

Tom Munch · **Reply #63 on:** April 12, 2007, 06:01:49 AM

Maybe the file could have an end that could double as a nail cleaner & awl?

Tom Munch · **Reply #64 on:** April 12, 2007, 06:02:25 AM

The can opener could have an awl end on it also.

supratentorial · **Reply #65 on:** April 13, 2007, 02:29:12 AM

The utility knife blade would be a neat choice but because of the large size of the tool it might be dwarfed unless it's also removable (like the driver). I don't carry a knife other than the one in my multi-tool. I could accomplish most tasks with a utility knife but I do use a knife when cutting an apple for an afternoon snack. I'm sure I could manage eating the apple without a knife though.

And since this is more of a utility tool, I think a utility blade is a fitting choice.

Bare minimum, I'd want a blade, a bit driver, and a file. For tool selection, the more the merrier in my opinion. The number of tools that fit will depend a lot on the design. Either the handles will need to be really thick so that the tools fit outside of the plier wrench head or the handles will need to be really long. The width of the handles will also need to be really wide or the plier wrench head will need to stick out of the handles. It won't be easy to make this an ergonomic tool. I think you've got your work cut out for you!

J-sews · **Reply #66 on:** April 13, 2007, 02:30:03 AM

Sorry I missed seeing your sketch earlier Tom.

I like the utility knife idea. I really like the detachable L-shapable screwdriver idea. And of course I like the Plier Wrench head.

Thinking about the difficulties involved with making the plier head fit within the folding handles....really makes a guy tempted to go with non-folding handles though.

Tom Munch · **Reply #67 on:** April 13, 2007, 02:38:59 AM

I just don't like the idea of having to have rolled edges to make the tool comfortable to squeeze. Plus I've been carrying this 6" Cobra, & it's really a little too long to carry comfortably all the time.

Tom

Tom Munch · **Reply #68 on:** April 13, 2007, 02:40:15 AM

I'm happy with a beefier tool, but I don't know that I want it longer. I really appreciate the pictures & ideas. I'd like this to be a group effort if folks want to help.

Tom Munch · **Reply #69 on:** April 13, 2007, 02:42:18 AM

I'm also thinking about cutting up apples. Maybe it needs a utility blade & a regular blade. In that case which would be the better OH?

Spoonrobot · **Reply #70 on:** April 13, 2007, 06:27:23 AM

In regards to the pocket clip I woul recommend at least planning on including a mounting option for it. During summertime I carry my Multi-Tool loose in my front pocket (mainly due to a lack of a pocket clip) and constantly have to check that it hasn't slid out over the course of the day.

I once had a Victorinox Soldier slide out of my pocket while sitting in class doing nothing. I think an option between sheath->loose in pocket is a good idea, no matter what the size. Keep in mind that a pocket clip can also be used to clip to MOLLE systems, belts, car seat pockets, etc.

J-sews · **Reply #71 on:** April 14, 2007, 03:03:44 AM

Here's an amateur attempt with the ol' photo editing software. I had to supersize the SwissTool handles a bit to fit the PlierWrench head inside. And as was mentioned earlier, the handle thickness would have to be considerable in order for the blades to fold in alongside the plier head.

Tom Munch · **Reply #72 on:** April 14, 2007, 06:38:58 AM

Bob,

That certainly helps visualizing the problems with a folding tool. I've been working on a cardboard mockup, but it's not very representative yet. I'm just afraid of having the handles long enough to support the head design if they don't fold. You have to have good handle length to use the tool with the jaws fully open, & it's hard to carry a tool that long.

Tom

supratentorial · **Reply #73 on:** April 14, 2007, 08:21:33 AM

Quote from: J-sews on April 13, 2007, 02:30:03 AM

Thinking about the difficulties involved with making the plier head fit within the folding handles....really makes a guy tempted to go with non-folding handles though.

Like this?

Tom Munch · **Reply #74 on:** April 14, 2007, 04:44:20 PM

Nice. I think if we do the non-folding handles we'll need to put the blade in the other handle for righties (unless you're a lefty).

Notice that the Kershaw does this.

Tom

Tom Munch · **Reply #75 on:** April 14, 2007, 04:47:17 PM

So as I said a few posts up, maybe a utility blade & a regular blade would work.

I'm also thinking of cutting a few ridges in the Plier Wrench jaws towards the tip for gripping. This would still allow tightening bolts deeper in the in the jaws.

Now how to add wire cutters into that jaw - either deep in the jaw or on the back somehow like I've seen on other tools.

Any ideas, guys?

Tom

Raukodur · **Reply #76 on:** April 14, 2007, 04:50:26 PM

would be nice if you could find a miniature version of those pliers which had a real small head so you could make it folding and fit in accessory tools.

There must be some out there.

Tom Munch · **Reply #77 on:** April 14, 2007, 04:53:41 PM

I was just thinking the same thing. I think Knipex has the patent. They just invented it last year.

J-sews · **Reply #78 on:** April 15, 2007, 04:16:22 AM

Quote from: Tom Munch on April 14, 2007, 04:47:17 PM

Now how to add wire cutters into that jaw - either deep in the jaw or on the back somehow like I've seen on other tools.

Any ideas, guys?

Tom

Not ignoring you here Tom, I just haven't thought of anything yet.

~Bob

Tom Munch · **Reply #79 on:** April 21, 2007, 07:01:34 PM

I keep letting this design percolate in the back of my mind. I know it may seem like I'm just slow to do anything, but I'm testing stuff in the meanwhile & finding what I really like & don't like.

Tom

J-sews · **Reply #80 on:** April 21, 2007, 07:03:59 PM

Quote from: Tom Munch on April 21, 2007, 07:01:34 PM

I keep letting this design percolate in the back of my mind. I know it may seem like I'm just slow to do anything, but I'm testing stuff in the meanwhile & finding what I really like & don't like.

Tom

Do you have any more drawings or sketches or cardboard cutouts to show us?

Tom Munch · **Reply #81 on:** April 21, 2007, 07:06:44 PM

No, I should be doing some of that though. Your pictures have helped me visualize more than my drawings & cardboard doo-dads. I need to glue some multiple layers of cardboard to get a real working model.

Tom

665ae · **Reply #82 on:** April 24, 2007, 05:39:54 AM

I was looking over this thread tonight and was wondering, couldn't we try to draw a blueprint for the tool you guys design? What about the possibility of applying for a patent? Of course, we'll have to come up with a name...

... and in honor of Tom's original idea... I'm thinking the Multitool.org "Munch"

Tom Munch · **Reply #83 on:** April 24, 2007, 07:59:13 AM

665ae,

That's very kind of you. We are using other toolmakers patented designs, so I don't see how we could patent it. We could make several for our own use though. I'm betting the first few will cost a couple hundred dollars or more to do, & I'm sure they'll be a little clunky.

Tom

supratentorial · **Reply #84 on:** May 06, 2007, 06:35:17 PM

Quote from: Tom Munch on April 24, 2007, 07:59:13 AM

665ae,

That's very kind of you. We are using other toolmakers patented designs, so I don't see how we could patent it. We could make several for our own use though. I'm betting the first few will cost a couple hundred dollars or more to do, & I'm sure they'll be a little clunky.

Tom

Tom, Have you finished the prototype?!?

Tom Munch · **Reply #85 on:** May 22, 2007, 07:49:07 PM

I've been having to put this idea on hold for a while. My mother-in-law finally passed away last week, so I've had a lot to do with that, & I'm starting my summer contract this weekend & will be mostly out-of-touch in the mountains of Colorado. I had hoped to at least have a cardboard model by now.

Tom

J-sews · **Reply #86 on:** May 23, 2007, 02:04:11 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss Tom. Silly things like multitools quickly become irrelevent compared to losing a loved one. Please pass our sympathies along to your wife as well.

Bob

Grant Lamontagne · **Reply #87 on:** May 23, 2007, 02:27:35 AM

Yeah Tom... sorry to hear about your misfortune. If you'd like, you can have my mother in law as a replacement? Really, it's no trouble, I've already put the stamp on her forehead and stuffed her in a mailbox. You should have her in 4-6 weeks...

Def

Tom Munch · **Reply #88 on:** May 23, 2007, 03:00:12 AM

She had been terminal for almost 2 1/2 years, & wanted to go, but it was still sad to finally lose her.

Tom

Raukodur · **Reply #89 on:** May 23, 2007, 08:55:24 AM

My deepest sympathies Tom.

Is your father in law still alive? Both of my grandfathers passed away a few years ago now, and I remember at the time I felt most sad for my grandmothers who were left without companions at a stage in life where they were quite ill themselves and so needed constant help, normally provided by their husbands.

Just a few weeks ago one of my grandmothers passed away, and while it does bring a lot of sadness, two factors helped ease the pain:
1) she had been ill for a while and near death's door for a while too, so everyone had had a chance to spend a lot of time with her, and take care of her, and say goodbye, so it was not unexpected as it was with her husband.
2) she wasn't leaving behind her husband, she was going to meet him instead, and so what happened was best for her, everyone has to pass away some time or other, just pray that you go in the best way possible.

I am sure you will find yourself to be a mountain of support for your wife who must need you at a time like this. Forget about tools for the moment, times like this are best spent mind and body with family.

Again, my deepest sympathies.

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(Not) My Design for a Multitool

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