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Is this Evolution?

Nix · 27 · 2217
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Poll

Should Victorinox keep the Evolution S14/16 or release a new Alumnus/Traveller?

Yes! Let's get back to basics.....Alumnus, please.
I don't prefer 84/85mm's
No opinion
No! Keep the S14/16
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us Offline Nix

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Is this Evolution?
on: December 20, 2018, 07:44:24 PM
Some time ago ThePeacent sent me a wonderful SAK: the 85mm Adventurer. It's a 85mm Climber with a locking blade!   :climber:

I really liked this SAK, and it promoted me to look for the Traveller variant, which I found eventually in the second-hand market.

Both of these Wengers carry easily and make perfect little EDC's (for me).  The Climber has long been a favorite, but an 85mm "Climber"? Very friendly in the pocket, and seemingly as capable as it's bigger brother. Perhaps more so since the 85mm's feature a nail file tool in lieu of a small blade.

Well, naturally, I became interested in the Victorinox equivalent: The Delémont Evolution S14 and S16.  ....and an S14 found its way to the SAK drawer.   :facepalm:


From top: Wenger Adventurer, Wenger Traveller, Victorinox S14.




First off, the tool set is similar, but you'll have noticed the the S14 features the Vic can-opener and the Vic-style awl. The Wenger-style scissors were retained in the S14.

I think that the retained scissors are good. I prefer Vic scissors, but the Wanglers have worked like charm for me so far. I do think the Vic-style awl and can opener are upgrades. These Vic-style tools are (for me) a bit more versatile. I think one could argue that since there is no small blade in these SAKs, a sharpened version of the Wenger-style can opener might be useful as a box or blister pack opener, but I prefer the Vic-style opener.

But while the initial look might make it seem that the S14/16 really has 'evolved', I think it has actually taken a big step in the wrong direction.

Why?

It's bigger...in every dimension.

While both the Vic's and Wengers are listed as being "85mm" SAKs, the Vic measures out at 85.15mm with my calipers and the Wenger measures 84.55mm. OK, 0.6mm is not much difference, however, it is clearly noticeable when side-by-side, and more so in hand.

If the slight difference in length doesn't impress you, the width might. With the contoured scales (and even without the contoured scales) the Vic is significantly thicker: 20.2mm. The Wenger is a svelte 15.6mm thick!  :o

I terms of width, the Wenger is 27.3mm wide (corkscrew to top of large blade), where as the Vic measured out 27.6mm.





What about those contour grips?

To me they don't feel as comfortable. I like the smooth grips on standard Vic's and Wengers. The contoured grips may provide a little more control when using the can opener as a can opener, and, maybe a bit of extra control when using a pinch grip and making a drawing/slicing cut with the main blade. Otherwise, I find them to be more awkward than useful. Perhaps because I'm just more familiar with the standard, smooth grips.

In looking at the intended purpose of these "little Climbers" and some of the differences, I find that the Evolution feels more like a step in the wrong direction and it looks like Vic has missed a chance to continue to make a truly great Wenger model.

However, I'm curious to know if you guys disagree (or Agree). Who likes the Evolution series better? and Why?  Should Vic stick with this design or bring back the Alumnus?

Sound off, Swiss Knights!  :SAKnight:
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:47:57 PM by Nix »
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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 07:48:55 PM
Don't let them bring back the Alumnus!! :ahhh

It will make mine no longer rare :D
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 07:49:16 PM
 :twak:
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us Offline theonew

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 08:30:45 PM
Not a fan of the EVO scales, much prefer the Vic awl, either way on the different can openers, but really wish they'd lose the contoured scales that add so much thickness with no utility gain.

hu Offline Exeter

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 09:35:14 PM
For me an EDC SAK must have scissors, so I love my Climber (Golfer, DofE, etc.), I love my Wenger Traveler even more, and only just a couple of days ago bought a Teton on eBay, baceuse I love the 85 mm Wenger form with the traditional scales. So: yes, please, I want 84 mm Vics with scissors and without the silly EVO sclaes, for me they're a no go, too much pocket space!

Either repair that damned 84 mm scissor-making machine (or build a new one), or just use the Wenger scissors, but please, Victorinox, give us 84 mm models with some snipping fuction...
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 09:58:25 PM by Exeter »
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pt Offline MacGyver

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 09:38:39 PM
I also dislike the Wenger/Vic Evolution scales. it adds nothing but bulk and thickness to me. My S16 also sits in the drawer for most of the time since i got it.

I don't understand why Vic couldn't carry on with the Classic side of Wenger line and decided to go with that bloody Evo line...  :rant:
This it's the typical case of: "If it 'aint bloody broken, don't bloody fix it!" :twak:


And yes, an Alumnus would be great... but id prefer the Small Climber myself...  :pok:

Anything with 84/85mm and scissors and standard scales would be a winner
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 09:41:58 PM by MacGyver »
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 09:48:28 PM
 :iagree:
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us Offline smiller43147

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #7 on: December 21, 2018, 02:08:50 AM
 :iagree:
I've lamented the end of the traditional Wenger scales on this forum before.
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nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #8 on: December 21, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
I haven't been attracted to cellidor Evolution scales and have no hands on experience with them. I have a Traveller though and like the thin Classic cellidor scales. I'd catch an Evolution it were thrown to me.

However, thick as they are (and perhaps off topic), Evowood scales make a knife truly beautiful and in my opinion worth the premium price. The Evowood 14 feels good in my hand. While it's as thick as an Explorer, it's shorter and lighter. As a big fan of the Sportsman I voted for the return of the Alumnus, but I'm satisfied that the Evowood 14 is available instead. :)
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gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #9 on: December 21, 2018, 11:30:02 AM
Pretty much agree with what's been said already... I have nothing original to add...  :facepalm:
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pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 12:04:06 PM
Quote from: Fuzzbucket on December 21, 2018, 11:30:02 AM
Pretty much agree with what's been said already... I have nothing original to add...  :facepalm:

Who does?!

 :dunno:

Show content
He's not been around much, though...

 :think: :think:
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pt Offline pfrsantos

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 12:04:35 PM
Why not go the MTo way? Keep both!

 :pok: :pok:
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It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

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Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
I theory I like the evogrip scales.  I have 2 Wenger with them yet I dont use them.  What I really like about Wenger is the cutout for the awl.  Not sure why Vic isn't now using this  :dunno:.   I am a fan of bringing back any 84mm with scissors.     
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #13 on: December 21, 2018, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Sawl Goodman on December 21, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
I haven't been attracted to cellidor Evolution scales and have no hands on experience with them. I have a Traveller though and like the thin Classic cellidor scales. I'd catch an Evolution it were thrown to me.

However, thick as they are (and perhaps off topic), Evowood scales make a knife truly beautiful and in my opinion worth the premium price. The Evowood 14 feels good in my hand. While it's as thick as an Explorer, it's shorter and lighter. As a big fan of the Sportsman I voted for the return of the Alumnus, but I'm satisfied that the Evowood 14 is available instead. :)

I've got an Evowood S10. Makes for a fun Tourist variant. But, then, it's only two layers. 
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #14 on: December 21, 2018, 02:55:02 PM
Quote from: Aloha007 on December 21, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
I theory I like the evogrip scales.  I have 2 Wenger with them yet I dont use them. 


That's an interesting observation. And raises the question: why not?  :think:
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pt Offline MacGyver

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #15 on: December 21, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: Aloha007 on December 21, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
What I really like about Wenger is the cutout for the awl.  Not sure why Vic isn't now using this  :dunno:.

Really...?   :think:

That's like, the one thing i really dislike about the Wenger look is that ugly cut out for the awl on the front scale. I'm happy Vic didn't copy that one. IMO Vic's awl deployment placement is perfect. The back awl is probably one of the easiest most enjoyable tools to open on a sak, for me...
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 03:22:13 PM by MacGyver »
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #16 on: December 21, 2018, 03:30:09 PM
I think you pretty much illustrated why.  Width and thickness both went in the wrong direction as did length.  Over all the tool pushes the 85mm parameters a bit too much for me.  The evogrip is nice in hand both left and right handed I'll say that. 

I am holding a 84mm Tinker and Wenger S10 right now and the scales are thick on the S10 both visually and feel wise ( make sense?).  Its not terrible in any way just thick IMO for added  "grip"  :dunno:.  I'm not sure its worth it. 

I do like that Vic went with their can opener.  It maybe that I'm just used to it.  As to the scissors, its a toss up.  Scissors are always a welcome addition, especially in this size SAK.  I like the narrower bottle opener tip of the Wenger.  I also really like the "locking" feature of it.  When pushed hard it "seats".  What a brilliant design.  My S10 has the clip point small blade  :( which is not a deal breaker but I like that Wenger used the small nail file in place of that small blade.  The notch on the scale is also very welcomed for the awl.  As for a sharpened awl or Wengers  :think:.  I like Wenger blades.  The added belly is welcomed big time.  I also like the stop on this S10s main blade.  Not quite 90 degree stop but again very welcomed. 

I'm sure I've missed some things.       
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #17 on: December 21, 2018, 03:35:43 PM
Quote from: MacGyver on December 21, 2018, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: Aloha007 on December 21, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
What I really like about Wenger is the cutout for the awl.  Not sure why Vic isn't now using this  :dunno:.

Really...?   :think:

That's like, the one thing i really dislike about the Wenger look is that ugly cut out for the awl on the front scale. I'm happy Vic didn't copy that one. IMO Vic's awl deployment placement is perfect. The back awl is probably one of the easiest most enjoyable tools to open on a sak, for me...

Yes I really like cut out.  Its simple and brilliant.  In terms of the look, I like the look too.  I also like how Wenger stows their T&T.   :D   
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us Offline Nix

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #18 on: December 21, 2018, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: Aloha007 on December 21, 2018, 03:30:09 PM
I think you pretty much illustrated why.  Width and thickness both went in the wrong direction as did length.  Over all the tool pushes the 85mm parameters a bit too much for me.  The evogrip is nice in hand both left and right handed I'll say that. 

I am holding a 84mm Tinker and Wenger S10 right now and the scales are thick on the S10 both visually and feel wise ( make sense?).  Its not terrible in any way just thick IMO for added  "grip"  :dunno:.  I'm not sure its worth it. 

I do like that Vic went with their can opener.  It maybe that I'm just used to it.  As to the scissors, its a toss up.  Scissors are always a welcome addition, especially in this size SAK.  I like the narrower bottle opener tip of the Wenger.  I also really like the "locking" feature of it.  When pushed hard it "seats".  What a brilliant design.  My S10 has the clip point small blade  :( which is not a deal breaker but I like that Wenger used the small nail file in place of that small blade.  The notch on the scale is also very welcomed for the awl.  As for a sharpened awl or Wengers  :think:.  I like Wenger blades.  The added belly is welcomed big time.  I also like the stop on this S10s main blade.  Not quite 90 degree stop but again very welcomed. 

I'm sure I've missed some things.       

 :iagree:


I do want to be aware that I might be biased because I'm just more familiar with one design (grips, can opener, etc...) than another.  I'd like to think I'm open-minded, but here the changes just fall flat (or fat) for me.

Still, it's nice to see a few members seem to like the Evolution designs!  :cheers:

(I like the Wenger T&T as well.)
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #19 on: December 21, 2018, 04:05:55 PM
As with a lot of things, familiarity does play a role.  Do I dislike Evo?  Its best said, I prefer the flat scales of SAKs.   
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gb Offline Fast Bill

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #20 on: December 21, 2018, 06:44:36 PM
For what it's worth the Evo / Evolution scales are, as others have mentioned, a bit bulky and I don't particularly like that in a pocket though I can tolerate it for 2 layers. I do like the Evolution 10 toolset much as I like the 84mm Sportsman.

Given that the Vic can opener has now been popped into the Evolution line (a good thing) I quite agree that putting Wenger scissors into 84mm would get be a welcome way to get back another layer of versatility there. I really ought to try an Evolution with scissors though just to see how it rolls...

I don't like Wenger T&T arrangements. Very happy with Vic's approach in Evolution scales. A side issue here -  I don't understand the absence of T&T in 111mm Vic dual density scales when they're in 130mm Rangers ? :think:

So, my ha'porth is the Delemont approach is ok and provides some interesting variation in the SAK range. Maybe not my preference but I'd accept one if you're offering  :tu:
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00 Offline Borg

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #21 on: December 21, 2018, 08:46:19 PM
I voted Keep the 14/16 as i like the Evo's, i only have a couple of Delemonts though and have to say i like those too, i don't find them too thick and i find they fit in the hand nicely they also have a good feel to them  :tu:

Get yourself an Evowood and set about caressing it with baby oil, you will soon see the light  :D

Some of my better looking ones, i don't tend to carry the Esquires much but the rest get carried frequently  :tu:



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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #22 on: December 21, 2018, 11:06:44 PM
Those wood scaled SAKs  :dd:
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #23 on: December 22, 2018, 06:28:57 AM
Just because this thread I decided to carry this...  Its a great SAK and tho the scales are thicker and noticeably so its not the only reason I don't carry it more.  I am not entirely sure why not  :think:.  The blade shape is awesome, the stop on the blade is awesome, the bottle opener with whatever Wenger does to make it "lock" when pressed hard is awesome, the notch for the awl is awesome, the awl is, yes you guessed it, awesome.  Theres a lot to like about this SAK.  Gonna carry it again tomorrow just because. 
IMG_6429.jpg
* IMG_6429.jpg (Filesize: 145.07 KB)
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us Offline Rapidray

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #24 on: December 22, 2018, 06:31:20 AM
Quote from: Borg on December 21, 2018, 08:46:19 PM
I voted Keep the 14/16 as i like the Evo's, i only have a couple of Delemonts though and have to say i like those too, i don't find them too thick and i find they fit in the hand nicely they also have a good feel to them  :tu:

Get yourself an Evowood and set about caressing it with baby oil, you will soon see the light  :D

Some of my better looking ones, i don't tend to carry the Esquires much but the rest get carried frequently  :tu:

(Image removed from quote.)
Nice wood scales on those SAK’s.  :like: :tu:
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nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #25 on: December 22, 2018, 09:44:45 AM
Quote from: Aloha007 on December 22, 2018, 06:28:57 AM
Just because this thread I decided to carry this...  Its a great SAK and tho the scales are thicker and noticeably so its not the only reason I don't carry it more.  I am not entirely sure why not  :think:.  The blade shape is awesome, the stop on the blade is awesome, the bottle opener with whatever Wenger does to make it "lock" when pressed hard is awesome, the notch for the awl is awesome, the awl is, yes you guessed it, awesome.  Theres a lot to like about this SAK.  Gonna carry it again tomorrow just because. 

I've enjoyed the evolution of your appreciation today, Aloha!  8)
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ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Is this Evolution?
Reply #26 on: December 22, 2018, 10:59:00 PM
Quote from: Fuzzbucket on December 21, 2018, 11:30:02 AM
Pretty much agree with what's been said already... I have nothing original to add...  :facepalm:

 :imws:

... although it's too long ago that I've used Wenger scissors. I also would like a 84mm climber... and maybe without keyring too  :D
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 11:00:20 PM by MTMatt »
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