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Leatherman Free Series

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au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1200 on: April 25, 2019, 06:57:22 PM
Does the Removable Bit Adapter/Ganzo/Gerber adapter fit on any P4 tools? :think:

Gerber had one for a thin tool, for the Suspension I think. Does it fit any P4 implements? It must fit on something.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1201 on: April 25, 2019, 07:00:45 PM
Does the Removable Bit Adapter/Ganzo/Gerber adapter fit on any P4 tools? :think:

Gerber had one for a thin tool, for the Suspension I think. Does it fit any P4 implements? It must fit on something.

I doubt the one for the Diesel would fit. The Phillips is probably a fair bit thinner than the one on the Free


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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1202 on: April 25, 2019, 07:02:33 PM
The only thing I can say is that the tool adapter fits and works perfect  :)
(Image removed from quote.) (Image removed from quote.)
Thank you SO much for trying that! :salute:

I now predict the tool adapters will sky rocket in price.  :rofl:
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


us Offline Buzzbait

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1203 on: April 25, 2019, 07:14:52 PM
Overall, I like what I'm seeing from the Free series so far. The quality seems to be there. For an American made tool, I don't think the price is too unreasonable.

My worst issue is probably totally unwarranted, but it's the elastomer springs. I love how my ancient Leatherman PST is still as good today as it was almost 20 years ago. When I think of Leatherman, I think of tools that last for life. But what happens 10 years from now, when an elastomer spring snaps, and the Free is already 5 years extinct? Will there be replacements parts available? Will the springs be sold separately?  I really hate the idea of rubber parts being used on a tool this expensive. It reminds me of my old Casio G-Shock collection, a box full of watches with dried and crumbling bezels, and no fresh replacements produced.

With that said, I'm holding out for the T4. It looks outstandingly useful, even with rubber bands.
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us Offline JustinCase

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1204 on: April 25, 2019, 07:22:03 PM
Thank you SO much for trying that! :salute:

I now predict the tool adapters will sky rocket in price.  :rofl:

The Leatherman universal tool adapter (2nd version) made for the Wave, Charge, Surge, is the one in my picture and it does fit perfect, not sure about the 1st generation known as the "standard/original version" with the two bumps, will fit and work as well ::)
“It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I try a little longer to solve the problem"


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1205 on: April 25, 2019, 08:08:14 PM
The Leatherman universal tool adapter (2nd version) made for the Wave, Charge, Surge, is the one in my picture and it does fit perfect, not sure about the 1st generation known as the "standard/original version" with the two bumps, will fit and work as well ::)

But it must be cumbersome to use as the handles are not staying closed. The magnets need to engage for that  :dunno:


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1206 on: April 25, 2019, 08:31:52 PM
Overall, I like what I'm seeing from the Free series so far. The quality seems to be there. For an American made tool, I don't think the price is too unreasonable.

My worst issue is probably totally unwarranted, but it's the elastomer springs. I love how my ancient Leatherman PST is still as good today as it was almost 20 years ago. When I think of Leatherman, I think of tools that last for life. But what happens 10 years from now, when an elastomer spring snaps, and the Free is already 5 years extinct? Will there be replacements parts available? Will the springs be sold separately?  I really hate the idea of rubber parts being used on a tool this expensive. It reminds me of my old Casio G-Shock collection, a box full of watches with dried and crumbling bezels, and no fresh replacements produced.

With that said, I'm holding out for the T4. It looks outstandingly useful, even with rubber bands.
The elastomer things are more like partial bushings from what I understand. And I think the tool may still work if they go bad. It just won't have that satisfying click in. I am not 100% sure, so I'll do some investigating soon. The sales people equate the elastomer to motor mount bushings, not bands. But, again, I'll need to dig around and look mine over to check. I may even take one of the plier pivots apart to take photos.  :)
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1207 on: April 25, 2019, 08:34:13 PM
Would those elastomer bushings stiffen up at low temperatures?  :think:


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1208 on: April 25, 2019, 08:41:40 PM
Would those elastomer bushings stiffen up at low temperatures?  :think:
Hard to tell, but I could stick the P2 in my refrigerator tonight and see.
Please remind me to do that if I forget. :)
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1209 on: April 25, 2019, 08:44:55 PM
What are the elastomer bushings like with hot temperatures  :think:
Could they melt  :dunno:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1210 on: April 25, 2019, 08:46:46 PM
Hard to tell, but I could stick the P2 in my refrigerator tonight and see.
Please remind me to do that if I forget. :)

That's commitment... good idea !
I might sleep already when it's night on your end of the pond though  :dunno:


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1211 on: April 25, 2019, 08:47:21 PM
What are the elastomer bushings like with hot temperatures  :think:
Could they melt  :dunno:

... do the refrigerator test first  :pok:


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1212 on: April 25, 2019, 08:48:48 PM
... do the refrigerator test first  :pok:
:rofl: I didn’t mean that you should test it
I just want to know if they would melt :think: :tu:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1213 on: April 25, 2019, 08:53:16 PM
What are the elastomer bushings like with hot temperatures  :think:
Could they melt  :dunno:

Probably only at temps that would wreck the temper on tools. You shouldn't have to worry about sunny days  :D


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gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1214 on: April 25, 2019, 08:54:23 PM
Thanks Al  :cheers: :like:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


us Offline Buzzbait

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1215 on: April 25, 2019, 09:23:41 PM
Hard to tell, but I could stick the P2 in my refrigerator tonight and see.
Please remind me to do that if I forget. :)

How would those elastomer bushings hold up to laser shark attacks?



--
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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1216 on: April 25, 2019, 09:57:26 PM
Can the drivers be used when opening the handles half way?
Like forming a single line so the driver is as centred as it can be?

I always use drivers on multis that way.


nz Offline Syncop8r

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1217 on: April 25, 2019, 09:58:38 PM
Good point....  :think:


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1218 on: April 25, 2019, 10:13:00 PM
Can the drivers be used when opening the handles half way?
Like forming a single line so the driver is as centred as it can be?

I always use drivers on multis that way.
I also do this daily. The P series is not good for making an inline drive. The pliers are too free and need to be held into the handle end while turning. While it is still doable in a pinch, it won't be like what we do with our normal LMs, SwissTools, etc.
I love my Surge for being an amazing inline driver and L-handle. I just got done driving some old flat screws like that with the big flat driver on my Surge.

The Free is not a heavy duty tool as far as the drivers are concerned .


Probably only at temps that would wreck the temper on tools. You shouldn't have to worry about sunny days  :D
Thanks for the answer, AW! :salute:

How would those elastomer bushings hold up to laser shark attacks?

(Image removed from quote.)
Yes. :whistle:
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


se Offline kottskrapa

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1219 on: April 26, 2019, 12:02:12 AM
I have read most about f the discussion here and I agree with most of you I guess.. My biggest concern is the price, the tip of the awl and the width of the 2d/3d phillips.. I say 2d/3d because it seems that it won't classifies in either category?

So maybe 2.5D?

Anyhow, I haven't played with one and being in Europe I won't be doing it for a while because of release dates and price for this first Gen.

I'm happy because of the awl and and dedicated drivers. The first Gen wave and victorinox spirit are my favorites and this goes somewhere in between after the videos I have seen I guess

Time will tell but I just wanted to say something after reading so much

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]



us Offline gustophersmob

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1220 on: April 26, 2019, 12:59:45 AM
The elastomer things are more like partial bushings from what I understand. And I think the tool may still work if they go bad. It just won't have that satisfying click in. I am not 100% sure, so I'll do some investigating soon. The sales people equate the elastomer to motor mount bushings, not bands. But, again, I'll need to dig around and look mine over to check. I may even take one of the plier pivots apart to take photos.  :)

I was just watching this video, and around the 12:10 mark it shows really well how the plier tabs click in. I finally understand what the elastomer bushings are for. I think this is the video you may have skipped because he doesn’t know which knife is which on the wave.

After seeing this, I’m thinking it may work in a pinch if the bushing somehow fail, but it would be like using one of the blades or tools with a broken lock. It would probably be a hassle and far from ideal. 



It’s hard to tell, but this does make me think all the plier load would be transferred to the handles only through those 4 lugs. I think Al’s concern about those breaking may be well founded. Hopefully not, but time will tell.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1221 on: April 26, 2019, 01:19:47 AM
What are the elastomer bushings like with hot temperatures  :think:
Could they melt  :dunno:

Here's a chart I found online of working temperature ranges for elastomer seals. I'd suggest the working range in this application would be similar. While we don't know which compound it is made of, I would guess EPDM would give you a sensible temp range.

Even if they were natural rubber (which they won't be), it would be fine for the vast majority of tool users' environments


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us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1222 on: April 26, 2019, 03:35:13 AM
I was just watching this video, and around the 12:10 mark it shows really well how the plier tabs click in. I finally understand what the elastomer bushings are for. I think this is the video you may have skipped because he doesn’t know which knife is which on the wave.

After seeing this, I’m thinking it may work in a pinch if the bushing somehow fail, but it would be like using one of the blades or tools with a broken lock. It would probably be a hassle and far from ideal. 



It’s hard to tell, but this does make me think all the plier load would be transferred to the handles only through those 4 lugs. I think Al’s concern about those breaking may be well founded. Hopefully not, but time will tell.
I know, it is nuts to stop watching a video over Wave knives.  :rofl:

Thank you for the input and information, gustophersmob. :salute:

On the plus side, I will be on the lookout for a cord of the same thickness material for backups. :)

Here's a chart I found online of working temperature ranges for elastomer seals. I'd suggest the working range in this application would be similar. While we don't know which compound it is made of, I would guess EPDM would give you a sensible temp range.

Even if they were natural rubber (which they won't be), it would be fine for the vast majority of tool users' environments
Thanks, AW! :salute:
Excellent information. I feel even better about the elastomer stuff now. But, I am going to go pop the P2 in the fridge and will report back in a while. Experiment mostly for fun. :D


I did a full-strength squeeze test on the P2 and P4 on bamboo skewers. Both have an exceedingly solid feel and almost no flex. Notably less flex than a SwissTool/Spirit, or PowerLock. Similar flex to the Wave, ST300, and MP600.
I am playing with the P4 right now and will be writing more about it later. :)

Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1223 on: April 26, 2019, 06:02:13 AM
As promised. The comparison photos. Free P4, Spirit, and Wave+.

Yes, I painted the part of the Wave file that shows when closed. Think making lists is OCD? hehe  :whistle:

Any questions, just let me know.  :)

Scissors:


Big flat drivers. The P series big-flat doubles as a package opener/pry bar. The Spirit big-flat double as a pry bar/wire bender. Wave is a just a big flat and can be used for medium MT prying duties like opening rusty paint cans.


Side view of steel stock used and profile.


P series small flat doubles as an awl/sewing thingy. The Spirit has a small-ish dedicated flat-driver and actual pointy awl without sewing eye. Wave has reversible micro-phillips and flat-driver exchanger, but no awl to speak of.


Phillips drivers profile shot. The Spirit and P series phillips are similar in profile, but the P phillips would be better for #2 phillips and possible larger screw heads. Of course the Wave has the awesome bit exchanger, which includes from the factory a #2 phillips/medium flat combo bit.


Can openers. P series went with a semi-circle for the new line. No extra use for the can opener on the P series. The Spirit has a medium-ish flat driver on the tip. The Wave can opener has a nice wire stripper integrated.


Serrated blades. I used my butter-blade Spirit version for the shot.


Plain edge blades. I used my regular blade Spirit version for this shot.


Wood Saws. All tapered and sharp as smurf. The P4 saw is thick and stout feeling. The Spirit saw is thin and would jam less easily, but be a little weaker. The Wave saw is in between the two.


FILES. O.k. Wave and Spirit win this one HANDS DOWN. I won't go into too much detail, but all of them are nicely cut/made(with the Spirit and Free files being precision cut). The P2/P4 file is very short with a cross-cut side and single-cut side. The Spirit has a cross-cut on each side with very slightly different aggressiveness(nearly redundant). Wave has a cross-cut side and diamond-coated side(diamond coated is very nice for fine finishing file-work.



Combo tools. The previously pictured P series flat driver is also a package opener. The Spirit has a tool dedicated to being a chiselly-thingie and wire-stripper. Spirit wins this one hands-down. Wish LM had done more of the circle grinding edges on the P series.


Pliers. Free series has a beefy pivot, but small bolt-area. Spirit has a small bolt area, but has more room in the bolt area, because the cutters are ridiculously small compared to modern tools. P4 and Wave+ have replaceable cutter blades, which I really like. Victorinox needs to follow suit with replaceable cutters AND stop using rivets on the SwissTools. I like screws I can tighten/loosen/service the tool with.


P2, P4, Spirit, Wave, and Charge TTi in a row.





P2 and P4 side-by side shots.







Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1224 on: April 26, 2019, 06:28:33 AM
Great shots GLBM.    :like:
Esse Quam Videri


us Offline Monrogue

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1225 on: April 26, 2019, 07:06:18 AM
K-Tibbs


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1226 on: April 26, 2019, 07:18:44 AM
Thank you, guys! :cheers:
Pontificating particularly pious positions pertaining to polymorphic paraphernalia. G-Man.


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1227 on: April 26, 2019, 08:47:42 AM
I know, it is nuts to stop watching a video over Wave knives.  :rofl:

Thank you for the input and information, gustophersmob. :salute:

On the plus side, I will be on the lookout for a cord of the same thickness material for backups. :)
Thanks, AW! :salute:
Excellent information. I feel even better about the elastomer stuff now. But, I am going to go pop the P2 in the fridge and will report back in a while. Experiment mostly for fun. :D


I did a full-strength squeeze test on the P2 and P4 on bamboo skewers. Both have an exceedingly solid feel and almost no flex. Notably less flex than a SwissTool/Spirit, or PowerLock. Similar flex to the Wave, ST300, and MP600.
I am playing with the P4 right now and will be writing more about it later. :)

 :tu:


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1228 on: April 26, 2019, 08:55:06 AM


us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Leatherman Free Series
Reply #1229 on: April 26, 2019, 12:25:26 PM
More great info in here of the Free :like: and great comparison/close up pics, glbm :like:


 

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