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The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread

za Offline Max Stone

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #30 on: March 27, 2019, 11:12:17 PM
I suppose it comes down to how much of a compromise are you prepared to accept and how well you expect the tool to perform? (I think those both mean the same thing  :think:)
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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #31 on: March 27, 2019, 11:17:11 PM
Looks more like a manufacture defect to me

I have used the one in my 111mm Soldier a few times, with no issues other than the fact that it doesn’t lock and it can fold both ways when you apply pressure to it....which I think is a bad design in itself, but that’s for a different discussion


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He repeated the failure on a 91mm SAK, using a torque wrench to measure the force it took to make it fail:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,22526.msg416821.html#msg416821
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dk Offline MMR

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #32 on: March 27, 2019, 11:19:47 PM
Just looking through that thread (from 2010 ): it is kind of strange that they used a brass pin where torque will be applied in a twisting motion on it (brass being a very soft metal).

Has there been any other reports of it snapping like that?

Has Victorinox addressed this issue on newer models?


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dk Offline MMR

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The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #33 on: March 27, 2019, 11:23:14 PM
I am actually going to have a look at my 111mm Soldier tomorrow and see if I can see a brass pin where the backside Phillips is

Edit:

My 111mm Soldier is a 2017 model or manufactured in 2017, accordingly the number on the blade

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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #34 on: March 27, 2019, 11:25:22 PM
I am actually going to have a look at my 111mm Soldier tomorrow and see if I can see a brass pin where the backside Phillips is

Edit:

My 111mm Soldier is a 2017 model or manufactured in 2017, accordingly the number on the blade

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Victorinox 100% uses brass pins for anything that isn't a 93mm Alox.
Edit: sorry, I meant "100% uses" not "uses 100%"
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dk Offline MMR

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #35 on: March 27, 2019, 11:28:53 PM
Victorinox uses 100% brass pins for anything that isn't a 93mm Alox.

Hmm okay....interesting.

Any reason(s) as to why that is?



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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #36 on: March 27, 2019, 11:31:26 PM
Cost, most likely.  :think:
They could use a stronger material, but they don't think it worth it.

(Also, see edit in my last post.)
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us Offline cody6268

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #37 on: March 28, 2019, 01:52:41 AM
Any reason why Victorinox chooses to discontinue models available for decades, and with great historical significance? For example, the Master Craftsman. With the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 being this year, you'd think we'd have a special version of it.  As well, the Craftsman was what, 50 something years old when it was discontinued a couple years back?

As well, why don't we have 100mm M1908 type SAKs any more? I love them, they're the right size, robust, super-thick tools, and tough as nails.  They can be tough to find, especially if what you're looking for is not a Soldier. Of course, it could use an update to the can opener if Vic were to release it--that design don't cut it anymore--literally!


us Offline nate j

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #38 on: March 28, 2019, 04:15:16 AM
The Compact is one.
I think the XLT and bigger have them too.
I think I personally prefer the cleaner look of the smooth hook, but it is a mystery why the hook with nail file is so rarely used. :think:

Traveller and Traveller Lite have the hook with nail file as well.

Looks aside, my Voyager has the hook with nail file, and so I can say from personal experience that while this nail file is small, it is quite functional.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 04:21:06 AM by nate j »


us Offline nate j

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #39 on: March 28, 2019, 04:30:28 AM
And because the can opener is actualy made as a 2D Philips that actualy works great for that purpose too.

 :iagree:

The only scenario in which the back spring Phillips has any advantage over the can opener Phillips is handling deeply recessed screws. Without the corkscrew, however, opening a bottle of wine is much more difficult.  The corkscrew has other uses as well, including working knots and holding the mini-screwdriver.

Bottom line, the corkscrew actually adds a lot of capability to a SAK, while the value of the back spring Phillips is quite limited, especially on SAKs that already have the opener layer.


dk Offline MMR

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #40 on: March 28, 2019, 07:03:03 AM
Cost, most likely.  :think:
They could use a stronger material, but they don't think it worth it.

(Also, see edit in my last post.)


I see....I just ordered a 130mm rangergrip 78 (has the backside Phillips), I told myself that I’d have more need for a full size Philips driver than a corkscrew when I’m “in the bush”.

But I didn’t only because it has a Phillips in it (obviously) I bought it because I wanted to test out the 130mm frame and I just happened to find a Rangergrip 78 for a good price.

I guess I’ll just have to wait and see how it holds up


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MMR

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nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #41 on: March 28, 2019, 07:15:45 AM
:iagree:

The only scenario in which the back spring Phillips has any advantage over the can opener Phillips is handling deeply recessed screws. Without the corkscrew, however, opening a bottle of wine is much more difficult.  The corkscrew has other uses as well, including working knots and holding the mini-screwdriver.

Bottom line, the corkscrew actually adds a lot of capability to a SAK, while the value of the back spring Phillips is quite limited, especially on SAKs that already have the opener layer.

 :iagree:

Didn't stop me buying a Trailmaster over a Forester, though. I use the Trailmaster a lot and besides finding the back side Phililps useful at times, I appreciate the handling comfort it brings over the CS. If I need a corkscrew I can use the one on my other daily carry.  :tu:
Rambler


us Offline gregpost

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #42 on: March 29, 2019, 07:00:22 PM
 I prefer the corkscrew, I would say 50% of the time the back layer phillips is useless for me because the SAK itself limits the areas and recesses where you can turn a screw. Inline phillips is much better but adds thickness.


us Offline kamakiri

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #43 on: March 30, 2019, 03:33:45 AM
The various phillips have very different utility reach and access potential wise. I find the first in-line c. '73 version to be the most useful.  It has the best reach of the 91mm versions and grips very small screw heads. It fits in small diameter holes where the CT socket can't. The '04 in-line ones are way too wide at the base and the tip doesn't fit small screws...and it's often too short.  But the '73 version is the only one I really prefer over the current backside phillips.

So I'd still choose the phillips over the corkscrew in general.  I just wish it was left machine cut and sharp edged like the old forged versions.
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it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #44 on: March 30, 2019, 03:49:59 AM
I prefer the corkscrew, I would say 50% of the time the back layer phillips is useless for me because the SAK itself limits the areas and recesses where you can turn a screw. Inline phillips is much better but adds thickness.

 :iagree: Love the inline Philips but not a big fan of the can-opener/Philips combo. It always feels like the Philips part should be slightly larger... :think:... or at least different. Hard to describe. Just feels like it is not a perfect fit for a standard #2 Philips screw head.


us Offline nate j

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #45 on: March 30, 2019, 04:46:14 AM
It always feels like the Philips part should be slightly larger... :think:... or at least different. Hard to describe. Just feels like it is not a perfect fit for a standard #2 Philips screw head.

You are correct, sir.  The 3 mm screwdriver on the tip of the can opener is essentially a #1 (or #1/#2, if you prefer) flat Phillips driver.  #2 Philips would be 3.5 mm, so as you correctly note, it is slightly undersized for (but in my experience handles just fine) those Phillips screws designed for a #2 driver.  The upside is that it will work on both #1 & #2 Phillips screws, which is a great thing for those of us looking to get the most capability in the smallest package.

 :cheers:


it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #46 on: March 30, 2019, 05:17:21 AM
You are correct, sir.  The 3 mm screwdriver on the tip of the can opener is essentially a #1 (or #1/#2, if you prefer) flat Phillips driver.  #2 Philips would be 3.5 mm, so as you correctly note, it is slightly undersized for (but in my experience handles just fine) those Phillips screws designed for a #2 driver.  The upside is that it will work on both #1 & #2 Phillips screws, which is a great thing for those of us looking to get the most capability in the smallest package.

 :cheers:

I never knew that. Thanks for the info!  :cheers:


it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #47 on: March 30, 2019, 09:33:14 PM
Are there different nail files (the actual file surface) among SAKs?

For example: I get decent results when using the nail file of my Cadet, but horrible results using the Rambler. Looking at the files they look the same, but for some reason one works better than the other  :think:


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #48 on: March 30, 2019, 09:53:37 PM
Are there different nail files (the actual file surface) among SAKs?

For example: I get decent results when using the nail file of my Cadet, but horrible results using the Rambler. Looking at the files they look the same, but for some reason one works better than the other  :think:
I don't know about that. :think:
But I do know that the the cadet nail file has recently been changed from the style on the Classic/Rambler to a "stripey" pattern.
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #49 on: March 30, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
I saw that on the new version. Finally a file without rim.  :tu: The nail file on my Cadet is still the old style though.  :think:


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #50 on: March 30, 2019, 10:03:26 PM
Hopefully someone will know if the old style file is different on Ramblers vs. Cadets. :tu:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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us Offline nate j

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #51 on: March 31, 2019, 08:04:05 AM
Are there different nail files (the actual file surface) among SAKs?

For example: I get decent results when using the nail file of my Cadet, but horrible results using the Rambler. Looking at the files they look the same, but for some reason one works better than the other  :think:

Obviously, the metal file is much more aggressive than a nail file, but the only difference I'm aware of between the Cadet nail file and the Rambler nail file is size.  I suggest one of the following possibilities:
  • The larger nail file area and or larger handle of the Cadet make it more effective in actual use than the Rambler, even though the characteristics of the file surface are the same.
  • With enough use, the file would ultimately reach a point of noticeable wear.  If it got to this point, of course a worn file would not be as effective as one that was new (or less worn).


za Offline Max Stone

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #52 on: March 31, 2019, 08:07:23 AM
Why do I sense a ‘show us your SAK file’ thread coming on?  :pok:
Education is a journey that starts when you realize that knowing a little about something opens the door to the universe.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #53 on: March 31, 2019, 12:09:37 PM
Why do I sense a ‘show us your SAK file’ thread coming on?  :pok:
Maybe because you want one. :pok:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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za Offline Max Stone

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #54 on: March 31, 2019, 01:19:29 PM
 :rofl: I don’t have enough SAKs with files to start one  :rofl:
Education is a journey that starts when you realize that knowing a little about something opens the door to the universe.


it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #55 on: March 31, 2019, 03:28:56 PM
Obviously, the metal file is much more aggressive than a nail file, but the only difference I'm aware of between the Cadet nail file and the Rambler nail file is size.  I suggest one of the following possibilities:
  • The larger nail file area and or larger handle of the Cadet make it more effective in actual use than the Rambler, even though the characteristics of the file surface are the same.
  • With enough use, the file would ultimately reach a point of noticeable wear.  If it got to this point, of course a worn file would not be as effective as one that was new (or less worn).

Both SAKs are like new, so i would tend more to your first point. I also thought about the general size difference. Maybe i am holding the Cadet differently than the Rambler, resulting in a different file characteristics.


us Offline nate j

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #56 on: March 31, 2019, 09:15:46 PM
Both SAKs are like new, so i would tend more to your first point. I also thought about the general size difference. Maybe i am holding the Cadet differently than the Rambler, resulting in a different file characteristics.

Makes sense to me.  All other things being equal, it is going to be easier to apply more force to a 84 mm handle than to a 58 mm handle.


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #57 on: March 31, 2019, 09:17:34 PM
The Rambler file is less thick I'd guess, which leaves less material to remove to build a file surface, causing a less agressive surface.

Just guessing here.


it Offline SirVicaLot

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #58 on: April 01, 2019, 02:48:09 AM
Sounds legit  :D :cheers:


dk Offline MMR

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Re: The Swiss Army Knives No Stupid Questions Thread
Reply #59 on: April 01, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
He repeated the failure on a 91mm SAK, using a torque wrench to measure the force it took to make it fail:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,22526.msg416821.html#msg416821

Not to keep bringing this up, or to call BS on someone.

But I have been using the Philips driver of my 111mm soldier quite a few times and have applied a good bit of torque on it.

I don’t see mine showing anything that would suggest it is close to failing or close to what he experienced.





Could it be that he just had a bad one?


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"We all make choices, but in the end our choices make us."
- Andrew Ryan
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