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Crapsman 1240

No Life Club Posts: 4,444
Crapsman
« on: April 11, 2019, 06:56:25 PM »
OK, I think Sears really screwed up when they chose to eliminate the entirely American Craftsman Professional line, and then moreso when they sold the Craftsman line to Stanley Black and Decker.  About oh, two weeks ago, I bought this small compact ratchet set for $11 from Lowe's. I'd used it on some small jobs, which it did fine.   Today, I had to make some repairs to the gas trimmer, and it had removed the screws just fine, using a Dewalt extension and a Leatherman Torx bit from the bit kit. But, when I was tightening the screws, it broke. It seized up immediately.  I guess something sheared off inside.  Should have heeded the warning of the sales clerk--these things are NOT worth their salt. I'm going to test the warranty. I'd like a refund, but lost the receipt. I think it's the design that's flawed.  The Chapman midgets are supposedly bad, but I've put more force on them and they haven't broke.   The 5-star reviews on Lowe's are all a lie--few people actually used the item, and have done reviews just for the sweepstakes entry. That in and of itself should be outlawed.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-10-Piece-Ratcheting-Multi-Bit-Screwdriver/1000596669


Their photo--I took one at the failure, but it came out bad.



Now here's the irony. I got the job done with my main bit driver, which, wait for it, is Craftsman USA. That thing spent most of its life being misused as a T-post clip tool, and it didn't leave a mark. I dug it out of the fencing tools, and put it to work; and it works great.

Craftsman was once a true professional brand that I viewed as being able to compete well with the big brands such as S-K, Snap-On, and Proto; but is now a cheap DIY'er brand not worth dragging home. I will never buy another Craftsman product from store shelves again. I will be buying used Craftsman at the flea markets. If Lowe's will give me a refund (with my explanation that it isn't the item, but the cheap design that's the problem), that's going towards more USA 1/4 stuff and  3/8 sockets to fill out a set case Granddad gave me, along with the ratchet, and a few assorted sockets left in it.  Or if it's store credit, Channellock linesman's pliers.




This is their supposed warranty. I hope they deliver. I thought I kept the receipt, but no.  Lowe's should let me exchange it. And I'm telling them to tell SBD to go back to the drawing board--this thing is crap.

Quote
If the product fails to perform for any reason, we will replace it. Return damaged product to a stocking Retail Partner or call 1-888-331-4569 for details. No proof of purchase required.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,731
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2019, 07:02:18 PM »
I'm not impressed with any of the box store tools anymore.  I've some of my Dad's Craftsman tools that are pushing 60 years old and they still get the job done.

Barry
Head Turd Polisher Administrator Just Bananas Posts: 61,460 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2019, 07:22:31 PM »
I was afraid this kind of thing would happen.  I guess I had more faith in Stanley/B&D, as I have a lot of their tools and I have no problems with them.

If it's anything like the old Craftsman, I doubt you will need a receipt.  I never did for any of mine, and they were all replaced without any hesitation- the brand name printed on the side was all the verification they needed.

Def

Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.
No Life Club Posts: 4,062
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 02:14:41 PM »
Not much point in recycling or driving a smaller car or using solar power if big companies are still going to insist on digging ore out of the ground, shipping it around the world, mashing it into the shape of something that doesn't even work, and then throwing the broken thing back into the ground.

Make a big stink mate, make it clear you're not just unsatisfied with the product, you're outright offended that the people peddling crap consider themselves of any value to the species.

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,731
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2019, 02:41:59 PM »
Stanley is definitely not what it used to be.  It's a shame, because the name is why I picked up some of their tools, too.  I'm going to put my money in vintage stuff found online or at sales. 

Barry
No Life Club Posts: 1,049

WWW 00

******
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 01:51:01 AM »
Has anyone watched their (edit: Stanley that is) video in comemoration commiseration of their x anniversary? Some interesting stuff but they try really hard (and IMO fail miserably) to make the production overseas as something good. I understand that it is expensive to produce in the US (and many other countries for that matter), but I'm willing to pay a lot more for a good quality tool. Their planes, from what I hear, are not even close to what they used to be.

Is weird to think that there used to be really good lathes that carried the Craftsman name.

 A long time ago, Sears came and soon left Brazil. But while here, my dad bought some of their famous screwdrivers (the ones made by Western Forge). He barely uses them, as they are very precious to him, such is their quality.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 01:56:59 AM by WWW »
No Life Club Posts: 4,444
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2019, 03:39:13 AM »
They exchanged it, but with a little resistance.  I showed them my entire kit the ratchet was in, showed it set up exactly as how I was using it when it failed, and how. They first tried to say they couldn't accept it because it didn't come from Lowe's, and pointing to the screwdriver display in Tool World, I said I had; and continued to say that "If it were the old Craftsman USA Professional I got from Sears, I would not have to be here today". The manager (who processed the return)then followed me to tools, I grabbed the replacement, and the clerk checked it out.  They had to keep the bits, but they had no issue with the fact I lost #1 Phillips bit.

I told them, they had better send this back to Stanley to be checked why it failed. Sears and Kobalt used to use a pretty good design, that was actually cheaper than this tool. It basically ripped off the Chapman, but had a reversing lever.  My Kobalt version from 3-4 years ago still works good.   I'm getting some replacement bits for my old Chapman set, and building a kit around a Victorinox ratchet as soon as I get it.  Even the replacement is bad--these are still junk.   Turns out, these aren't even really Craftsman, or even Stanley. It's a generic Orient-made tool sold under dozens of names. There's an identical one sold through Menard's stores.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,731
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2019, 04:51:48 AM »
That's so sad.  Is there nothing sacred in the tool world?

Barry
No Life Club Posts: 4,444
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2019, 03:20:32 AM »
And that one just broke. Fiddling with it, not even using it.  I mean, come on, I've used the Chapman and the Kobalt Chapman ripoff hard, and neither failed. This time, I don't know what to do. They didn't give me a receipt with the warranty replacement. I am NOT going to bother with another one. I don't get why I had two failures in a row. I guess because the design is a POS.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,731
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2019, 06:37:58 AM »
I'd deep six the thing and jump on the Bay and find a vintage one Cody.

Barry
No Life Club Posts: 4,444
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2019, 02:20:11 PM »
And that's what I'll do. Save the bits, though. So far, I'm seeing two that are close to this, and Craftsman USA. One is almost exactly like a Chapman, but the bits are fixed; choice of Phillips or flat head; those are from the sixties.  No good for what I do.  Another is seriously heavy duty. I think it's actually a 1/4 ratcheting wrench. That will do perfectly. 
Hero Member Posts: 547
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 03:39:15 PM »
   I used to go to Sears and buy Craftsman drivers and other tools because they were reasonably priced and made in the USA. I bought one of the last USA made tool sets at an Ace Hardware years back and still have it. I am not sure who used to make them for Sears, but maybe they just went out of business. I did not realize Stanley bought the name.
Hero Member Posts: 768
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 05:48:47 PM »
At work, when someone retires, their toolbox is left and the mechanics/technicans can pick through it.

What I have noticed in my toolbox, which came from a long standing technician, is the wide variety of brand names Ive never heard of. But somehow, maybe because they are older tools, have been better than the newly ordered tools.

I will say, Westward has some pretty nice tools, though.
No Life Club Posts: 4,626 Apparently it is possible to have too many tools;)
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2019, 04:46:31 AM »
What I have noticed in my toolbox, which came from a long standing technician, is the wide variety of brand names Ive never heard of. But somehow, maybe because they are older tools, have been better than the newly ordered tools.

In the past a lot of manufacturers made their tools up to a certain standard/quality, these days it is more likely tools are made down to a specified price point (regardless of quality).

babola: "Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course."
No Life Club Posts: 1,564
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2019, 12:58:03 PM »
A possible add-on explaination regarding great old tools might also be that the best quality brands started making tools down to the official standards as these came along? (ANSI, ISO, BS, DIN, JIS and so on. They have very specific describtions of what various standard tools need to meet with regards to shapes, sizes, strength etc. The benefit of going much beyond these standards might not be considered worth it, and thus quality equalizes across the board. Maybe at a lower level than some had before.

I guess another factor is the survivor bias. Whatever old tools are still in circulation are probably the best of the best, and likely not really representative of old tools in general. I think it is fair to assume that most bad or okish old tools have been scrapped long time ago as people didn't consider it worth it to keep around - as opposed to the good ones.

"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 4,626 Apparently it is possible to have too many tools;)
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2019, 05:34:55 PM »
I guess another factor is the survivor bias. Whatever old tools are still in circulation are probably the best of the best, and likely not really representative of old tools in general. I think it is fair to assume that most bad or okish old tools have been scrapped long time ago as people didn't consider it worth it to keep around - as opposed to the good ones.

That is an excellent point that I hadn't thought of  :tu:  :salute:  Over the years I have thrown out a few tools that broke or otherwise didn't meet my expectations.

babola: "Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course."
No Life Club Posts: 1,564
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2019, 06:33:48 PM »
Over the years I have thrown out a few tools that broke or otherwise didn't meet my expectations.

I've certainly done that way too many times too. Thus years ago I tried to change policy and aim to take the expense to buy quality for tools I expect to have around a long time. The price is typically much higher initially, but quite often one ends up paying in various ways for lesser quality too. (And sometimes only to then get the proper stuff afterwards - for added insult and cost).

Sadly price and quality doesn't always match up. It is nice when quality comes inexpensive, but all the more frustrating when bad quality comes at high cost. I blame the business pricing policy of basically charging irrespectively of production cost and rather just aim for whatever price the customer might be willing to pay - and increase that with inflated marketing. That policy goes a long way in undermining price as a signal of quality - and given time takes the brand value with it. (By then the MBAs probably got their bonuses already, and have moved on to the next job).

And all kind of  more or less trustworthy reviews floating around the internet doesn't really help. These days I'm generally sceptical to most reviews that show glossy pictures of a shiny new tool, and that seems to be most of them. I'd rather want to see pictures of tools that has been put through its paces so the reviewer have at least experienced using them.

Seems I've gone off on some rant. Better stop here!  :D




"If only simple wasn't so hard" - me
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 4,626 Apparently it is possible to have too many tools;)
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2019, 06:14:04 AM »
I've certainly done that way too many times too. Thus years ago I tried to change policy and aim to take the expense to buy quality for tools I expect to have around a long time. The price is typically much higher initially, but quite often one ends up paying in various ways for lesser quality too. (And sometimes only to then get the proper stuff afterwards - for added insult and cost).

Sadly price and quality doesn't always match up. It is nice when quality comes inexpensive, but all the more frustrating when bad quality comes at high cost. I blame the business pricing policy of basically charging irrespectively of production cost and rather just aim for whatever price the customer might be willing to pay - and increase that with inflated marketing. That policy goes a long way in undermining price as a signal of quality - and given time takes the brand value with it. (By then the MBAs probably got their bonuses already, and have moved on to the next job).

And all kind of  more or less trustworthy reviews floating around the internet doesn't really help. These days I'm generally sceptical to most reviews that show glossy pictures of a shiny new tool, and that seems to be most of them. I'd rather want to see pictures of tools that has been put through its paces so the reviewer have at least experienced using them.

Seems I've gone off on some rant. Better stop here!  :D

Not a rant in my book, just some true but harsh facts ...  Lots of "reviews" I see are simply an unrealistically positive unpackaging of a freebie, rather than discussion of real world use.  So I just skip to the next review in the hope it will contain some useful info (and thankfully some do).

When I'm buying tools I like to have a look at several examples of a supposedly identical tool.  If I can see variations in finish that tends to turn me off - if they are taking short cuts at the end it is more likely they have taken shortcuts in the intermediate steps as well, and at least their QA is deficient. 

Like you, I try to buy on quality rather than brand or price, and as a result I have a wide variety of brands, particularly in sockets & spanners (wrenches).

babola: "Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course."
No Life Club Posts: 2,994
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2019, 08:43:32 AM »
@ Sea Monster

This...

" Not much point in recycling or driving a smaller car or using solar power if big companies are still going to insist on digging ore out of the ground, shipping it around the world, mashing it into the shape of something that doesn't even work, and then throwing the broken thing back into the ground"

Wiser words were never spoken.

My late Grandmother worked at Chestermans in Sheffield  making Rules / Tapes. Upon being bought out by another, their top guy approached my Grandmother and having inspected the quality said they would never be repeated, "...people who buy these will only ever buy one in their lifetime, we will make sure they need to buy at least three"

You need only go to the recycling centres to see the stuff chucked in.
Yep, the planet will die (almost certain children born today will witness this) ...and only then will Billionaires consider their own fatal choices.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 08:51:47 AM by tosh »

I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.
Hero Member Posts: 700
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2019, 01:28:07 AM »
   I used to go to Sears and buy Craftsman drivers and other tools because they were reasonably priced and made in the USA. I bought one of the last USA made tool sets at an Ace Hardware years back and still have it. I am not sure who used to make them for Sears, but maybe they just went out of business. I did not realize Stanley bought the name.

At one time Western Forge made a short run of screwdrivers for Craftsman. The are stamped with a WF and are by far the best that Craftsman ever sold.
No Life Club Posts: 1,740
Re: Crapsman
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2020, 07:56:41 PM »
Western Forge did indeed make screw drivers for Craftsman. And Moore Drop Forge of Springfield Mass made the V series ratchets and wrenches. In '67, Moore got bought out by Easco. This can be noted on the tools, as the time when the pointed letter A becomes a flat topped, "barn roof" style letter A. Around this time is also when they first started offering the quick release button on the back of the ratchets (invented by a teen-age Sears store clerk in Gardner Mass in 1964). So if in your travels you find wrenches or sockets with pointed A's in the Craftsman name, or without the quick release button, by all means pick those up. Even beyond 1967, the tools are still great. Right up through the year 2011.

Anyway, Easco in turn got bought out by Danaher, then Apex. Today, the location those tools were made is one of those brick mill style buildings converted to office use as a medical center and row of doctors offices.

I have a 94 piece Craftsman set probably 25 or 30 years old, and replaced a kit that I "lost" when someone borrowed it. I love it. I bought whatever I needed at Sears back in the day and greatly lament the "Evolve" line of tools they made, because that was the precursor, test balloon for moving all production to China. Every time I see Made In China, I know that a couple hundred people or more list thier jobs here in the US and I'm sad for it. But mainly the quality is not there

So in my recent quest to buy a 3/8inch ratchet that I lost, I was forced to craigslist and ebay. I found a 1967 3/8 inch ratchet, AND three half-inch ratchets dating 1957 to 1986. They ALL worked. I did take them apart to clean them up, but they all worked.

With that bulk purchase I also obtained an S-K round headed, 50-tooth ratchet and bunch of S-K sockets. I have to say, comparing Craftsman sockets of the 1960's and 79's to S-K sockets of the same era, Craftsman had a much better finish especially at the bottom of the socket where the ratchet plugged in. But the SK stuff is still also great

 

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