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??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.

us Offline kamakiri

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #30 on: November 09, 2019, 10:10:03 PM
Looks like the box liner is the green felt variety.

I think the box is correct for this vintage of knife.  In my humble opinion, it only really matters in terms of the historical evidence it provides for the six people on the planet who give a rip about what really constitutes a "Golfer" and what doesn't.  In my view, this knife is a Golfer and it has an age-appropriate box that says Golfer.  Pretty sweet set if you ask me, even if the two weren't married at the factory back in 1973. 


Yeah, green felt variety!  :oops: :facepalm: I was just sitting at the computer to type about my mistake...

I don't think it *can* be right...knife from before yours and box from after? Now I'm pretty sure it was paired up recently.

I doubt there's any stopping people from calling LNF versions 'Golfer' regardless. Just like people will deny my '60s Golfer being a Golfer despite a catalog cut saying it is.
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us Offline Frailer

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #31 on: November 10, 2019, 01:03:54 AM
Looks like the box liner is the green felt variety. 

I think the box is correct for this vintage of knife.  In my humble opinion, it only really matters in terms of the historical evidence it provides for the six people on the planet who give a rip about what really constitutes a "Golfer" and what doesn't.  In my view, this knife is a Golfer and it has an age-appropriate box that says Golfer.  Pretty sweet set if you ask me, even if the two weren't married at the factory back in 1973.

I’m no expert in Victorinox history. Not even remotely close.  And the variety of boxes Victorinox used at different times in different markets is inscrutable to me.

With that said, I feel exactly the same way about this set, and I’ve love to own it.  I’m just glad somebody snapped it up before I even had to consider whether or not to reach much too deeply into my pocket to acquire it.



il Offline Shalom

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #32 on: November 10, 2019, 05:27:09 AM
Looks like the box liner is the green felt variety. 

I think the box is correct for this vintage of knife.  In my humble opinion, it only really matters in terms of the historical evidence it provides for the six people on the planet who give a rip about what really constitutes a "Golfer" and what doesn't. In my view, this knife is a Golfer and it has an age-appropriate box that says Golfer.  Pretty sweet set if you ask me, even if the two weren't married at the factory back in 1973.
Actually it matters to at least the DOZEN people on the planet writing in this thread (and the thousands reading it)  :D
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 06:10:17 AM by Shalom »


us Offline Myron

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #33 on: November 10, 2019, 05:27:57 AM
I’m no expert in Victorinox history. Not even remotely close.  And the variety of boxes Victorinox used at different times in different markets is inscrutable to me.

With that said, I feel exactly the same way about this set, and I’ve love to own it.  I’m just glad somebody snapped it up before I even had to consider whether or not to reach much too deeply into my pocket to acquire it.

Same here.   I think Kamakiri is a much greater student of these details, but I feel the same about this set, especially at the price it apparently went for.  Hopefully an MTo member is the new owner. 

Myron


00 Offline jnoxyd

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??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #34 on: November 10, 2019, 07:35:11 AM
Wow, what a beauty!   Is this one on its way to you, jnoxyd?
Myron, no, it's not mine . Hope somebody here got it.
I have earlier version (c.1957) of this knife called just 244 kaU that time.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 08:01:03 AM by jnoxyd »


us Offline kamakiri

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #35 on: November 10, 2019, 08:22:24 AM
Same here.   I think Kamakiri is a much greater student of these details, but I feel the same about this set, especially at the price it apparently went for.  Hopefully an MTo member is the new owner. 

Myron

I don't think I'm being clear.

I think the knife you got is the correct knife for the box. And more importantly, *is* a Golfer. I considered buying it if it's the one I'm thinking.

I *think* the one that jnoxyd posted is not the right box. I wouldn't consider buying it anywhere near the price 'shown' or even significantly cheaper since it looks like it was sold through the offer system. And it looks like there were there two sold like that...
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00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #36 on: November 10, 2019, 08:37:31 AM
As for the name Golfer for 84mm versions with and without LNF, we can agree with SAKWIKI using this name for both versions (and yes, 207k and 244k were not called Golfer, but can be called its predecessors)

Here are my pre Golfer and Golfers. BTW does anybody have 1950s-1960s pre Golfer without LNF?
 


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #37 on: November 10, 2019, 08:47:17 AM
You have a MOP Golfer?! :sa:

Consider me tickled...


00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #38 on: November 10, 2019, 09:36:37 AM
You have a MOP Golfer?! :sa:

Consider me tickled...
Yes 😋


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #39 on: November 10, 2019, 09:55:56 AM
Any close-ups somewhere or a dedicated post around it?


il Offline Shalom

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #40 on: November 10, 2019, 10:20:00 AM
My "Proto Golfer" . 5 turn corkscrew, grooved. Tang stamps VSSR and Victoria Officier .With LNF . Similar to the one jnoxyd shows but no shackle, so probably later.
ProtoGolfer.jpg
* ProtoGolfer.jpg (Filesize: 69.76 KB)


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #41 on: November 10, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
:drool:


00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #42 on: November 10, 2019, 01:05:36 PM
My "Proto Golfer" . 5 turn corkscrew, grooved. Tang stamps VSSR and Victoria Officier .With LNF . Similar to the one jnoxyd shows but no shackle, so probably later.
Nice one, Shalom!


us Offline Rapidray

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #43 on: November 10, 2019, 02:09:14 PM
I would like to have any SAK with a LNF  :rofl:
Great knives!  :cheers:


us Offline Myron

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #44 on: November 10, 2019, 02:10:51 PM
Same here.   I think Kamakiri is a much greater student of these details, but I feel the same about this set, especially at the price it apparently went for.  Hopefully an MTo member is the new owner. 

I don't think I'm being clear.

I think the knife you got is the correct knife for the box. And more importantly, *is* a Golfer. I considered buying it if it's the one I'm thinking.

I *think* the one that jnoxyd posted is not the right box. I wouldn't consider buying it anywhere near the price 'shown' or even significantly cheaper since it looks like it was sold through the offer system. And it looks like there were there two sold like that...

My turn to clarify what I said up there too.  I was trying to say that I'm glad someone else bought it so that I couldn't have even been tempted by it, because yes the price was outrageous.  And it certainly is a handsome set, even if the box and knife are mismatched.  It would be nice to know for sure, but I also think that dealers and distributors did funny things back in the day too.  For example, I have a Bantam that came in a box that has been marked-over Bartender.  I know it's original because I'm the original owner of it.  Perhaps this pristine Golfer and box set were similarly put together by a distributor or dealer at some point in its history. 






us Offline kamakiri

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #45 on: November 10, 2019, 03:55:03 PM
Perhaps this pristine Golfer and box set were similarly put together by a distributor or dealer at some point in its history. 
. That's my primary guess.  I do think it happened a lot at that level. I do believe one like yours would be a factory/factory issued/authorized sticker to deal with a name change and existing stock.


As for the name Golfer for 84mm versions with and without LNF, we can agree with SAKWIKI using this name for both versions (and yes, 207k and 244k were not called Golfer, but can be called its predecessors)

Main reason I doubt that it's a 'predecessor' is that both appear to have overlapping production.  Why would two different models ever have the same name at the same time?

Personally, I view the LNF version as more of a proto-Compact. Nail file on the back of the scissor... Victorinox clearly saw the difference enough to evolve Golfers toward having the specific divit tool instead of a blade. More like two lines share a common 'middle' relative in the early blade and hook Golfers.

Just my minority opinion...
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us Offline Frailer

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #46 on: November 10, 2019, 06:02:48 PM
...Why would two different models ever have the same name at the same time?

An excellent question.

I wish I had known 30 years ago that I’d eventually become interested in collecting SAKs instead of just using them; I would have taken notes. As a result of this youthful oversight, I’ve been forced to rely on my increasingly failing memory.

One example: I remember receiving my first Compact around 1992. A British friend had to purchase one for me during a visit home, as there were none to be found from US distributors. I clearly remember the box being labeled “Compact,”and the knife had pen/pin plus scales, the mini screwdriver, and  a parcel hook without a nail file. I gave that particular knife away years ago, so I can’t refer back to it to confirm. Nevertheless, I do have a knife from roughly this same period with these same features in its original gray sliding Swiss Army Brands box that is labeled “Golfer.”  It also carries the model number 53801, which the Wiki states belongs to the “Special Golfer” (divot tool, no scissors).

This proves nothing; particularly as I can’t firmly fix the dates either of these knives was produced. I do, however, believe that Victorinox didn’t get terribly uptight regarding the names attached to many models, and I *suspect* identical knives might have been assigned different names by distributors in different markets.

I don’t think I’ve added anything to the ongoing discussion by sharing this, but I, for one, find these tiny details strangely fascinating.


us Offline kamakiri

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #47 on: November 10, 2019, 07:05:29 PM
I wish I paid better attention too. I carried the one knife for about 15 years until I was given a second SAK.  It's still provided a lot of info, because I know when I got it mid-'84...

I do, however, believe that Victorinox didn’t get terribly uptight regarding the names attached to many models, and I *suspect* identical knives might have been assigned different names by distributors in different markets.

They certainly didn't! Look at the Hoffritz naming in the '60s and '70s.  Reused and recycled a LOT of names in the US concurrent with other distrubutor/dealers.  I think the only one that was the same was for the Camper in the later half of the '70s.

One example: I remember receiving my first Compact around 1992. A British friend had to purchase one for me during a visit home, as there were none to be found from US distributors. I clearly remember the box being labeled “Compact,”and the knife had pen/pin plus scales, the mini screwdriver, and  a parcel hook without a nail file. I gave that particular knife away years ago, so I can’t refer back to it to confirm. Nevertheless, I do have a knife from roughly this same period with these same features in its original gray sliding Swiss Army Brands box that is labeled “Golfer.”  It also carries the model number 53801, which the Wiki states belongs to the “Special Golfer” (divot tool, no scissors).

I don’t think I’ve added anything to the ongoing discussion by sharing this, but I, for one, find these tiny details strangely fascinating.

I think you did add something interesting to ponder. Perhaps in some markets, the hook version was *always* a Compact!  It would certainly explain the lingering confusion.
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00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #48 on: November 11, 2019, 03:29:19 PM
Any close-ups somewhere or a dedicated post around it?
Here’s special for you ;)



00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #49 on: November 11, 2019, 03:33:17 PM
Here’s special for you ;)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)
:O

I thought I was clear of all grail SAKs by now... Then you came along :D

What a beauty...


us Offline Rapidray

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #50 on: November 12, 2019, 02:37:27 AM
MoP - lovely  :cheers:


Offline hickory

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #51 on: December 22, 2019, 04:42:14 AM
Nice to meet you all, happy to introduce myself and say: "Hi!" I'm a mostly rural young old fart who is loving his recent return to Victorinox after a romance with modern locking folders... these little guys are just so handy, so much usefulness in such a small package.

Somebody gave me a Spartan and a DoE Pocket tool and I got sucked into the SAK vortex! Got a couple of climbers, not quite right, and the DoE is perfect except for no point, or small blade, and the Spartan needs scissors.

It got a little strange when I realized that I just 'had to' have two blades and scissors, and I had more or less given up until I found one of these 84mm 2-blade golfers. I managed to find one, can't wait to get my hands on it, and found this fantastic little forum. Thanks for this great thread! I registered to join the club. Very excited to have stumbled upon a knife that 'doesn't exist'... Those 244k proto-golfers are lovely! Nicely done, folks!

I suppose I'm just about set unless I can find a two-blade, scissors, with LNF. Two layers or bust? I'm just tickled, it's a little bit of nostalgia for me, I grew up in a Victorinox dealer store...


ie Offline McStitchy

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #52 on: December 22, 2019, 11:55:29 AM
Welcome to  :MTO: hickory  :hatsoff:

Sounds like you'll fit right in  :D


us Offline Myron

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Re: ??? 84mm. Two layers. Blades; scissors; no openers.
Reply #53 on: December 23, 2019, 03:28:04 AM
Welcome, hickory!   I hope you will post pictures of your proto-Golfer when it arrives!

Myron


 

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