Batoning Is Stupid

[pfrsantos]

Well, now that I got everyone's attention, let me clarify that statement: Batoning With Knives Is Stupid!

Here's the proof:

[comis]

Click bait, and I totally fell for it!


I do believe using the right tool for the right job, but that being said, I do baton with knives here and there...almost like a destructive test to the see how well do the steel/knife can last.  I know in survival situation, sharp edge is a scare resource and there are probably many more efficient ways to produce tinder/kindling/firewood.  I just see it like a silly recreational thing to do, half the fun comes from the stupidity, if that even make much sense?

[zoidberg]

"There's absolutely no reason to hazard your primary survival tool at all for wood splitting, absolutely no reason."
/stabs knife tip into woodblock.

[Top-Gear-24]

"There's absolutely no reason to hazard your primary survival tool at all for wood splitting, absolutely no reason."
/stabs knife tip into woodblock.

Exactly what I was thinking  .

[nate j]

Any tool can be broken by misuse/abuse.  However, using a proper knife with good technique on appropriately sized wood, I don't believe batoning is any more dangerous to the tool or the user than any other approach to splitting wood.

The approach demonstrated in the video may be an option, but

• If time is a consideration, it is considerably slower than batoning, as one has to make the wedge, and then has to saw a groove in each piece to be split.
• It assumes one has or can find a suitable piece of hardwood to make the wedge.
• It assumes one normally carries a saw.

If I really intended to process a significant amount of wood, I would have a hatchet or small axe.

[TazzieRob]

While I agree with the statement, the delivery comes off as judgy and condescending.

Felix Immler has videos where he starts a split with the blade of his Victorinox, then finishes with wooden wedges. Not rocket science, but if you use something not designed to baton with, you can still get by

[styx]

as most said, you gotta be aware of what your tool can handle and adjust to that

[Gerhard Gerber]

He's pretty much killed his channel with his opinions, willingly or not IDK, but blanket statements like that never work and are rarely accurate.

[Aloha]

 

[comis]

Love most everything Kochanski teaches, this is one person whom has dedicated most of  his life in the art of wilderness living/survival, way before everyone is making 'survival' video on yt. 


Have a looking at his survival pot idea, it's pretty neat and unlike what we usually will usually see on youtube.

[Aloha]

I am big fan of making and using wedges to split larger sections of wood.  I don't have a large axe and when I buy wood for camp fires some need to be split.  Making a wedge is simple and easy to do and IMO part of a skill set.  I believe batoning wood is one of those things people will debate so do what you feel best is my stance.

I really like Mors.  He's one guy that I soak up as much as I can when he speaks.  We all have our ways but if one was to mimic his way we'd be well down the path of a successful bushcrafter/survivalist.   

[comis]

I am big fan of making and using wedges to split larger sections of wood.  I don't have a large axe and when I buy wood for camp fires some need to be split.  Making a wedge is simple and easy to do and IMO part of a skill set.  I believe batoning wood is one of those things people will debate so do what you feel best is my stance.

I really like Mors.  He's one guy that I soak up as much as I can when he speaks.  We all have our ways but if one was to mimic his way we'd be well down the path of a successful bushcrafter/survivalist.   

Totally agree with you on Mors, the guy is living encyclopedia for everything boreal forest survival.

If you are looking for an axe, may I suggest the Gerber/Fiskars Hatchet/Axe?  Maybe less organic without the wooden handle, but these axes handle are very durable, and the flat side is perfect to pound in tent stakes.

[Aloha]

Appreciate the suggestion.  I have a few nice little hatchets.  I don't split a lot of wood which is mostly why I dont have an axe.  I do see them at the fleamarket but theres no real need for one.  With a small hatchet I can also use it as a wedge.  There are some very strong opinions and thats fine but there is precedent for batoning.  It seem every darn video posted were guys batoning like there was no other way to split wood.  It did get a bit much.       

[comis]

Appreciate the suggestion.  I have a few nice little hatchets.  I don't split a lot of wood which is mostly why I dont have an axe.  I do see them at the fleamarket but theres no real need for one.  With a small hatchet I can also use it as a wedge.  There are some very strong opinions and thats fine but there is precedent for batoning.  It seem every darn video posted were guys batoning like there was no other way to split wood.  It did get a bit much.       

That too, I think batoning has it's place in the repertoire of a outdoorsman,  but it surely is not very efficient when there are better options available.  Maybe some folks put too much emphasis on knife being the 'primary survival tool', and/or glamorize being able to survive with nothing but a knife or few tools.  In reality, I think the complacent thinking may led to ill preparation or planning, which endanger people if the survival situation does come.  Personally, the best knife is not the knife I have on me, but the one bring for the occasion.  Just my 2 cents worth.

[TazzieRob]

The Skookum Bush Knife Mors is using in the above video only came about in around 2006 when the maker Rod Garcia went on one of Mors' courses where he was using a Mora.
Mors only sells Moras on his website. You don't "need" anything more than a Mora or even a Victorinox, but if people want a custom knife or a tactical knife or a one tool option knife then it's their choice. Mors also says, "the less you know, the more you carry, the more you know, the less you carry" - perhaps also the more you know the less knife you need?

Other than car camping, I've never needed a "big" knife for hiking and overnights where I live, as open fires in National Parks here are only allowed for emergency situations, otherwise it's fuel stoves only

[Gerhard Gerber]

If you lack skill or experience with an axe, batoning, with a knife, might be for you.

If your not walking/hiking and carrying your smurf with you, batoning, with a knife, might be for you.

If you have a big slab of 5160 with a sharp edge & good heat treat, batoning, with a knife, might be for you.

Who knows, maybe I'll make a video this weekend while we're camping to show why blanket statements......are stupid 

 

[Aloha]

Who knows, maybe I'll make a video this weekend while we're camping to show why blanket statements......are stupid 

 

 

[comis]

If you lack skill or experience with an axe, batoning, with a knife, might be for you.

If your not walking/hiking and carrying your smurf with you, batoning, with a knife, might be for you.

If you have a big slab of 5160 with a sharp edge & good heat treat, batoning, with a knife, might be for you.

Who knows, maybe I'll make a video this weekend while we're camping to show why blanket statements......are stupid 

 

Wait, is BBQ going to be involved after all these wood chopping?   

[Aloha]

A fair amount of luck in survival situations is also needed.  I'm not suggesting luck alone is what we should hope for. 

In survival situation where the need for a fire is a priority I am going to do what I need to do.  A few things popped into my head while I was typing. 

1.  Carbon steel is more forgiving.  One could sharpen with a smooth stone so "preserving" the edge may not be as big an issue over getting a fire going. 

2.  Higher grade steels that would likely keep the edge are advantageous so batoning can be performed with less worry about "preserving" the edge. 

 

[Syncop8r]

I doubt the wedge needs to be so big - surely it's only the first few mm that force the timber apart. 

[nate j]

That too, I think batoning has it's place in the repertoire of a outdoorsman,  but it surely is not very efficient when there are better options available.  Maybe some folks put too much emphasis on knife being the 'primary survival tool', and/or glamorize being able to survive with nothing but a knife or few tools.  In reality, I think the complacent thinking may led to ill preparation or planning, which endanger people if the survival situation does come.  Personally, the best knife is not the knife I have on me, but the one bring for the occasion.  Just my 2 cents worth.

There's certainly something to be said for "the right tool for the job".  However, consider:

If one plans to make sizable fires and is going overnight hiking with a large group or car camping, one probably has access to all of the following tools:

• Folding knife
• Stout fixed blade knife
• Saw
• Hatchet and or Axe

Well and good.

But, if one is:

• Day hiking
• Hunting for the day
• Lone or ultralight overnight hiking
• Hiking/camping in areas where campfires are generally not permitted

then they probably are not carrying a hatchet/axe or saw (larger than a SAK/MT saw, anyway).  If the need arises to make a fire or build something out of wood, they are then going to have to make do with only a folding knife and or fixed blade knife.  Thus, learning how to get the maximum utility out of the folding knife and fixed blade is a worthwhile endeavor.

[ducttapetech]

I have yet to break a knife batoning a blade. Fixed or folding.

[cody6268]

Folding--don't period. It's a good way to break backsprings and wreck locking mechanisms.

In a way, some manufacturers are realizing people do so, and are designing certain models with batoning and steel striking in mind. I once drove a Mora Basic through a roughly 1.5" branch with a plastic dead-blow mallet, and it didn't hurt it, or chip the edge. But I would not do it again. In the woods, or even camping, I recommend always having a folding saw (or chainsaw if you're taking your truck or ATV to the site) and an axe/splitting maul.

[comis]

There's certainly something to be said for "the right tool for the job".  However, consider:

If one plans to make sizable fires and is going overnight hiking with a large group or car camping, one probably has access to all of the following tools:

• Folding knife
• Stout fixed blade knife
• Saw
• Hatchet and or Axe

Well and good.

But, if one is:

• Day hiking
• Hunting for the day
• Lone or ultralight overnight hiking
• Hiking/camping in areas where campfires are generally not permitted

then they probably are not carrying a hatchet/axe or saw (larger than a SAK/MT saw, anyway).  If the need arises to make a fire or build something out of wood, they are then going to have to make do with only a folding knife and or fixed blade knife.  Thus, learning how to get the maximum utility out of the folding knife and fixed blade is a worthwhile endeavor.

No doubt about learning how to baton, I for one actually do baton with my knives(yes, both fixed and folding), almost like a destructive test to see how far I could count on my gears with the need arises.  And you are absolutely right about not always possible to lug everything for every trip, and I think how to wisely choose and compromise is just of that good planning/prepping.

I guess what I like to stress most about survival is not only about the gears and skills out on the field, but the before trip planning and preparation are just as important, if not more.  Do we tell someone where we are going and for how long?  Will someone look for us if we have no communication?  Do we dress properly and could even sustain the weather overnight?  IIRC, most PCT thru hikers often sustain cold Sierra snow mountain nights without building a big fire, and I think that is a testimony to their good planning and proper gears/clothing to achieve that.

[Gerhard Gerber]

I have yet to break a knife batoning a blade. Fixed or folding.

  just gotta know how

[Gerhard Gerber]

Wait, is BBQ going to be involved after all these wood chopping?   

Friday night was BBQ, of course, but the camp site provided heaps of wood in all sizes, BBQ bonfire and wood burning water heater size, so to be perfectly honest the only wood processing that happened was I roughed out a spoon-like object for our Thai green curry chicken potjie of Saturday night.

-2C when I got up Saturday morning, 3C yesterday morning, so first thing was getting the fire going from the embers. 

[comis]

Friday night was BBQ, of course, but the camp site provided heaps of wood in all sizes, BBQ bonfire and wood burning water heater size, so to be perfectly honest the only wood processing that happened was I roughed out a spoon-like object for our Thai green curry chicken potjie of Saturday night.

-2C when I got up Saturday morning, 3C yesterday morning, so first thing was getting the fire going from the embers. 

Always love a good camp fire in the cold, especially after a long day of activities and a good meal, with friends or love ones.

[microbe]

When I was younger me and my friends went every summer on hiking trips in the Belgian Ardennes, where we mostly camped wild. We caught fish from the rivers to eat, roasted over fire. We collected dead branches for the fire, and broke larger branches in pieces by kicking it with a heavy hiking boot. The largest branches we could not break where tossed on the fire whole. I don't recall ever needing an axe or a knife to break down dead wood in any wild camping situation.
You are wasting valuable time you can spend drinking. 

[Gerhard Gerber]

When I was younger me and my friends went every summer on hiking trips in the Belgian Ardennes, where we mostly camped wild. We caught fish from the rivers to eat, roasted over fire. We collected dead branches for the fire, and broke larger branches in pieces by kicking it with a heavy hiking boot. The largest branches we could not break where tossed on the fire whole. I don't recall ever needing an axe or a knife to break down dead wood in any wild camping situation.
You are wasting valuable time you can spend drinking. 

Sounds like fun 

We have basically the same situation here, except a much drier climate, trees grow very slowly so when wild camping in certain areas, harvesting wood is acceptable.

On official camp sites that would be very inconsiderate, but there's grass and twigs everywhere, which is all you need to start a fire with a ferro rod.

The camp site we were at last weekend supplied wood that they harvest while de-bushing the farm, various sizes and shapes for starting a fire and the hot water donkey.

Two hands and a ferro rod was all it took. 

[lister]

When I was younger me and my friends went every summer on hiking trips in the Belgian Ardennes, where we mostly camped wild. We caught fish from the rivers to eat, roasted over fire. We collected dead branches for the fire, and broke larger branches in pieces by kicking it with a heavy hiking boot. The largest branches we could not break where tossed on the fire whole. I don't recall ever needing an axe or a knife to break down dead wood in any wild camping situation.
You are wasting valuable time you can spend drinking. 

We did/do the same. I always found it funny how in Youtbe videos Americans always start a whole logging industry just to start a fire, while we just picked up some fallen branches, break the smaller ones and give the bigger ones a good kicking. 

The same goes for ferocium rods. They are used all the damn time. Though I can hardly imagine a less convenient modern way of starting a fire. We always did just fine with a lighter or matches.