Knife Laws and Assumptions

[israelpiper]

"So, officer, a Swiss Army knife is ok to carry, then?"
"Why sure, son. No problem."


Very amusing.  I saw a few references to permissible public carry knives, under which
category was mentioned Swiss Army knives, with no other qualifications. Obviously,
the assumption was that a Swiss Army knife was 91mm, red, and had a cross emblem.
Everyone knows that, right?

No caveat concerning locking mechanisms, or blade length maximum, in the reference
to Swiss Army knives.  One was in English, the other in Hebrew. Either could have been
corrected long-since, as so many Net uploads do not carry a materials date. Often just an
upload date, which is useless.

[Aloha]

I think we have had some law changes here in California  .  I tend to stay with 91mm SAK or smaller and 3 inch folder or smaller.  When working however I will carry a fixed blade openly but tend to stay at 4 inches.  I do carry my MT also in the open. 

I wont make any judgements on anyones laws but a SAK just seems to be "the red plastic knife with multiple implements."  The officer maybe confused seeing anything else   

[pomsbz]

I was told by the head of police security for Jerusalem that my slipjoint (GEC) would be considered a locking knife due to the spring. He was telling me his opinion as a friend to be careful, he'd been my officer in the army. He's wrong legally of course but not wanting to bother fighting police naivety was one of the reasons I just gave up and carry a SAK. Oh and I have a letter from my doctor saying that I require a pocket knife for medical reasons (was rather proud of getting that ). Mostly the security here use common sense. My manager went into a meeting at the Knesset (parliament building) with a Pioneer PX in his bag. They found it, took it off him giving a receipt and returned it with a smile and a joke when he left. This in one of the most securely guarded places in the world. I do actually carry my Leatherman Charge in my bag but as everyone seems to have a Wave here, it seems to be acceptable as a tool despite the locking blade and as I'm always on the way to work or from work or on my bike, that's plenty good reason to be carrying one.



Corkscrew and worn old red scales. Passport to being ignored whether I'm here or back in the UK.

[Barry Rowland]

It's the same here, in Pennsylvania.  A Swiss Army Knife is an accepted part of society, gladly!

[Sos24]

Knife laws tend to be very vague and complicated in many locations and just getting worse.

In NY, an assisted opening knife can be considered the same as an automatic switchblade and a common locking folder could be considered a gravity knife if a LEO could make it open with a wrist flick.  I believe Canada just passed a law making wrist flick capable knives illegal.  I forget where, but I remember reading a proposed law that had wording saying something along the lines of the knife must have a bias towards closed which would make most knives other than slip joints illegal.

Many people don’t know the laws and if LEO chose to enforce could easily find themselves inadvertently in trouble.  This is also true of other defensive weapons.  In some states the cute plastic cat head with finger holes are considered illegal knuckles.  A monkey fist with a metal ball inside could be considered an illegal slungshot. Pepper spray that isn’t labeled correctly or registered and electronic stun guns, etc are illegal various places, but people buy them and travel with them not realizing all the time.

[Walley]

i know they wont let you take a leatherman surge in your carry-n bag on an airplane 

[pomsbz]

Knife laws tend to be very vague and complicated in many locations and just getting worse.

In NY, an assisted opening knife can be considered the same as an automatic switchblade and a common locking folder could be considered a gravity knife if a LEO could make it open with a wrist flick.  I believe Canada just passed a law making wrist flick capable knives illegal.  I forget where, but I remember reading a proposed law that had wording saying something along the lines of the knife must have a bias towards closed which would make most knives other than slip joints illegal.

Many people don’t know the laws and if LEO chose to enforce could easily find themselves inadvertently in trouble.  This is also true of other defensive weapons.  In some states the cute plastic cat head with finger holes are considered illegal knuckles.  A monkey fist with a metal ball inside could be considered an illegal slungshot. Pepper spray that isn’t labeled correctly or registered and electronic stun guns, etc are illegal various places, but people buy them and travel with them not realizing all the time.

NY just overturned the gravity knife law nonsense though apparently it's still in force on the subway?

[israelpiper]

And soon enough, in many places, a quick wit and a sharp comment could get you for both speeding, and illegal weapons carry. 

Thank goodness my sea turtle rescue kit is based on a SOG Pocket Power, with no locking blade. But honestly, if I am not doing lunch with Bibi, or addressing the High Court of Justice, nobody ever checks me for anything. The advantage of the mid-60s age bracket, and a chronic sciatica gait. And the white beard. Though I've never carried one of those quick-opening black "tactical" slicers. Even when I worked on kibbutz in packing and shipping of metalized film, hands-down a good box cutter was superior to any black tac blade. Cardboard is full of mineral inclusions, and I never found a costly knife could equal a good box cutter. Though I hear in some western countries those are proscribed outside of home and work environments.
   

[nate j]

NY just overturned the gravity knife law nonsense though apparently it's still in force on the subway?

Yea, you can read more about it here and here:
https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/a-knife-rights-victory-freedom-finally-wins-in-new-york/
https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/nyc-mayor-de-blasios-nypd-promises-continued-gravity-knife-enforcement-on-subways/

In spite of a significant pro-knife victory, New York, and particularly New York City and its environs, remain some of the most hostile areas in the USA toward knife carry.  When I go there, I carry only sub 4" slip-joints, and I make sure to carry them completely concealed.

[nate j]

Even when I worked on kibbutz in packing and shipping of metalized film, hands-down a good box cutter was superior to any black tac blade. Cardboard is full of mineral inclusions, and I never found a costly knife could equal a good box cutter. Though I hear in some western countries those are proscribed outside of home and work environments.

Box cutters are certainly still the best tool for the job in many industrial and some retail environments, and are still used in that capacity.  However, I believe a visceral dislike of box cutters has developed in some quarters because they were used as weapons by the 9/11 terrorist hijackers.  As everyone on this forum is no doubt already aware, box cutters are no more inherently dangerous than any other knife of comparable size.

[pomsbz]

Box cutters are certainly still the best tool for the job in many industrial and some retail environments, and are still used in that capacity.  However, I believe a visceral dislike of box cutters has developed in some quarters because they were used as weapons by the 9/11 terrorist hijackers.  As everyone on this forum is no doubt already aware, box cutters are no more inherently dangerous than any other knife of comparable size.

They might be a drop more dangerous to the user, I've had the blade suddenly shear off and come close to causing an accident. Lesson learned, only trust your own box cutter, not one someone hands you... 

I think a box cutter might be less dangerous, you can only slice not stab. A bit like a slipjoint actually.

[pomsbz]

And soon enough, in many places, a quick wit and a sharp comment could get you for both speeding, and illegal weapons carry. 

Thank goodness my sea turtle rescue kit is based on a SOG Pocket Power, with no locking blade. But honestly, if I am not doing lunch with Bibi, or addressing the High Court of Justice, nobody ever checks me for anything. The advantage of the mid-60s age bracket, and a chronic sciatica gait. And the white beard. Though I've never carried one of those quick-opening black "tactical" slicers. Even when I worked on kibbutz in packing and shipping of metalized film, hands-down a good box cutter was superior to any black tac blade. Cardboard is full of mineral inclusions, and I never found a costly knife could equal a good box cutter. Though I hear in some western countries those are proscribed outside of home and work environments.
 

I walk with a stick which is wonderful for going through metal detectors, in most places I don't bother to empty my pockets, they assume the stick is causing the beep and I go straight through. Unless of course it's the National Insurance or heaven help us Income Tax offices where they practically strip search you. Going into the National Insurance offices one time they opened up my pill containers, checked my tobacco pouch, I was quizzed as to the type of tobacco inside and I had to give them my SAK Rambler which was returned when I left thankfully. I was once behind a  guy who was trying to explain his 8" Chef's knife wrapped up in a blood stained cloth trying to get into the National Insurance offices, he worked at a nearby restaurant and was on the way to work. That was fun. 

[Gath]

Nevermind a sturdy stick is at least 10 times more effective as a weapon than a SAK.

I think knife laws are hard though, actually quite dangerous knives can be carried for legimate reasons, yet it's nigh impossible to tell for sure if someone has other motives, so the solution in many places has been selective enforcement of laws that technically ban most blades, which is very shaky on terms of rights.

[israelpiper]

I walk with a stick which is wonderful for going through metal detectors, in most places I don't bother to empty my pockets, they assume the stick is causing the beep and I go straight through. Unless of course it's the National Insurance or heaven help us Income Tax offices where they practically strip search you. Going into the National Insurance offices one time they opened up my pill containers, checked my tobacco pouch, I was quizzed as to the type of tobacco inside and I had to give them my SAK Rambler which was returned when I left thankfully. I was once behind a  guy who was trying to explain his 8" Chef's knife wrapped up in a blood stained cloth trying to get into the National Insurance offices, he worked at a nearby restaurant and was on the way to work. That was fun. 

Also never had a problem with a walking stick. Give me a 95cm oak or olive wood walking stick any day over a knife. I carry one--and need it--in the Old City of Jerusalem, going up and down all those stairs into the Western Wall. Anyone untrained in knife fighting is at risk using a knife for self-defense. Hands down. In fact, in close quarters a knife attacker can even be more deadly than a gun, and come out the victor. But people live by guess, surmise, anecdote, feeling, and emotion.

Knife DEFENSE is another thing. Can be very helpful, though best to scream and run, shouting "terrorist" in whatever language necessary. Or in America, maybe "help!"