Dating in the '70s - Victorinox chronology - Part 1 - Grand Prix Inlays

[kamakiri]

So I went on vacation and when I got back found myself back to my habit of just lurking around like I did before the start of 2019...but I found I really wanted to get a bit more info out on my studies.  Originally, I thought it would be a big single thread, but I suppose that's not practical for me right now.  I thought this would be a good way for me to kick off the project with a relatively simple start.

I chose the Grand Prix inlay for this first part since they're fairly common and relatively inexpensive.  I've identified at least 4 variants from the '70s.

c.'72/73 V1n:



I believe this is the first Grand Prix inlay in Nickel Silver, immediately following the St. Christopher previously used on previous Automobile related models.


c. '75 V1s:



Like many other inlays in this period the switch to Stainless Steel with the same tooling used for Nickel Silver proved to wear the tooling quickly.  Note that both 'V1' types have the same details and most definitively in spoke count. Easiest to see the 12 spoke rear wheel.  A c.'76 copy is the same, but with severe enough wear that the cellidor merges in front of the spokes. The c.'75 copy has a black scissor spring and requisite '75 details.


c. '77 V2s:



Wear on previous tooling led to this V2 revision and refresh. Details are very different from V1 variants and easiest to spot is the simplified 10 spoke rear wheel. (Model T's have 12) The knife is clearly c. '77 with the 1mm 'full' center spacer, aluminum tweezer tip, and larger scissor screw, etc.


c. '79 V2n:



I think the c. '77 tooling must have started to wear by '78 and like some inlays were switched back to Nickel Silver (like Fish and some Vic shields) while some went to Hot Stamp like the Camper. 


Late '80s:


I don't have a c. '80 copy or pictures of one, but I think that's the time that the design was again simplified for longevity with 100% stainless inlay use.  The easiest detail to spot is the lack of button dots in the seats. I have not studied post '80 variants for any differences.

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Thanks for looking!

[Nick4]

Very interesting. Thank you very much, kamakiri!

Unfortunately, I have only one late version of this SAK:

[VICMAN]

I chose the Grand Prix inlay for this first part since they're fairly common and relatively inexpensive.  I've identified at least 4 variants from the '70s.

Nice write-up and pics on the Grand Prix inlay kamakiri!

[Rapidray]

  nice going as always! 

[Myron]

Excellent summary and thanks for posting this, Kamakiri.  It will prove a good resource of information for the future, no doubt. 

Your post prompted me to get my own out and have a look.  Using your nomenclature, I think I have a version 1 s on my hands, circa 1975. 

Here are its features:

- The automobile inlay itself appears to be stainless, not nickel silver.
- Large blade: tang stamp is small-v VSSR, and it has NO tang stamps on the obverse side.
- Small blade: spear point.
- Scissors: screw joint with black two-sided spring
- Can opener: no +PAT marking
- Cap lifter: no ground edge, no 90-deg half-stop
- Phillips: squared shank with can key opener
- Awl:  no sewing eye
- Tweezer: aluminum headed.

[Rapidray]

No tang stamp on the obverse side - wow that’s interesting. 
Great looking knife! 

[FolderBeholder]

Looks like I have a late 80s version. 
I always thought it looked like one from the late 70s until you pointed these inlay differences.  Nice thread kamakiri! 

[Myron]

No tang stamp on the obverse side - wow that’s interesting. 
Great looking knife! 

Thanks Ray.  Yep, this is a thing, as documented in this thread:  https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,61061.msg1711436.html#msg1711436

For those not wanting to check out that whole thread, here are some pics of mine:

[VICMAN]

Excellent summary and thanks for posting this, Kamakiri.  It will prove a good resource of information for the future, no doubt. 

Your post prompted me to get my own out and have a look.  Using your nomenclature, I think I have a version 1 s on my hands, circa 1975. 

Nice one Myron!

[VICMAN]

Looks like I have a late 80s version. 
I always thought it looked like one from the late 70s until you pointed these inlay differences.  Nice thread kamakiri! 

Nice SAK and pic FB!

[VICMAN]

For those not wanting to check out that whole thread, here are some pics of mine:

Nice pics Myron!

[Rapidray]

Thanks Ray.  Yep, this is a thing, as documented in this thread:  https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,61061.msg1711436.html#msg1711436

For those not wanting to check out that whole thread, here are some pics of mine:

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Very nice! And with the box also. 

[McStitchy]

Great you're doing this Grant, really looking forward to the following parts 

[kamakiri]

Thanks everyone for the interest and participation!   

This is the another 'V1s' c. '76 showing more degradation of the die/tooling:



And the blank rear tang is definitely indicative of c.'73 to '75 when paired with a black scissor spring.




I'll certainly cover the topic of blank rear tangs again/more when I circle back for Camping inlay updates in this series.

[Rapidray]

Thanks everyone for the interest and participation!   

This is the another 'V1s' c. '76 showing more degradation of the die/tooling:
(Image removed from quote.)


And the blank rear tang is definitely indicative of c.'73 to '75 when paired with a black scissor spring.
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

I'll certainly cover the topic of blank rear tangs again/more when I circle back for Camping inlay updates in this series.

[koke]

Great thread... love this model.

It isn’t the inlay, but just seen the car today
It’s 1923 and runs smoothly

[Rapidray]

Great thread... love this model.

It isn’t the inlay, but just seen the car today
It’s 1923 and runs smoothly

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Thats very nice! 

[Rizio Il Ghiro]

Great read  - I hadn’t realised there were such subtle differences!

[Myron]

I could be wrong, but I always thought the Grand Prix inlay was a Packard.  Like this 1910 Tourer.

Does anyone know for sure?


(not my picture)

[kamakiri]

I could be wrong, but I always thought the Grand Prix inlay was a Packard.  Like this 1910 Tourer.

Does anyone know for sure?

(Image removed from quote.)
(not my picture)

It's a Model T fer shure.


Pic from Model T wiki.

Height of the lights, windshield support rods, position of the steering wheel and shape of the rear fender are good clues.

....

Didn't think this would evolve into a discussion on actual cars, but I'm glad the thread has some interest! 

Thanks all for the compliments and participation! 

[jazzbass]

I've always found it unfortunate that the stamping dies for the stainless steel emblems couldn't reproduce the details that they could for nickel-silver. I mean, they tried, but a lot of the early ss inlays made with ns dies came out looking just terrible. I have a knife from the early 70s first-attempt-at-ss-inlays where the Vic logo itself is all jagged and messy.

The older ns inlays - the fish and the Model T especially - just have so much more fine detail in them. The buttons on the T and the fine detailed scales on the fish are just great. Later ss inlays got better (the Battle Series inlays are very nice), but I imagine you can do more detail work when you're producing low volume knives and not main catalog numbers like the Grand Prix and Angler/Fisherman.

FWIW I have a bunch (15-20) of the later ss inlays from c. 1980-1996 and a quick look doesn't show any differences. But it was just that - a quick look.

[Myron]

It's a Model T fer shure.

(Image removed from quote.)
Pic from Model T wiki.

Height of the lights, windshield support rods, position of the steering wheel and shape of the rear fender are good clues.

....

Didn't think this would evolve into a discussion on actual cars, but I'm glad the thread has some interest! 

Thanks all for the compliments and participation! 

So it is!   Thanks for clearing this up.  I've always wondered...

[jazzbass]

Follow up from my earlier post...

I've always found it unfortunate that the stamping dies for the stainless steel emblems couldn't reproduce the details that they could for nickel-silver. I mean, they tried, but a lot of the early ss inlays made with ns dies came out looking just terrible. I have a knife from the early 70s first-attempt-at-ss-inlays where the Vic logo itself is all jagged and messy.

Found it! It's a Champion from c. 1976. Look at how bad the bottom of the logo is:

FWIW I have a bunch (15-20) of the later ss inlays from c. 1980-1996 and a quick look doesn't show any differences. But it was just that - a quick look.

I took a sampling of 8 from across the range of 1982-1996. I used Photoshop to cut out the logo on the first one and overlay on all the others. They all matched up as far as I could tell. The image in the post here is scaled to 1280px wide. Click here for a high res version.



BTW, one more interesting thing is that as far as I can tell the early SS inlays are a different alloy than the later ones. Early SS logos are not (or are weakly) magnetic while the later ones post 1980 are. Using a fairly weak refrigerator magnet, I can lift the magnet from my hand with the post 1980 inlays, but not with the earlier ones. This would suggest that they used an austenitic alloy (like in flatware) for the first attempt and a martensitic steel (like the steel in their blades) for the second.

[McStitchy]

Very interesting jazzbass 
I haven't yet seen an early SS Vic. inlay like that myself 

[kamakiri]

Follow up from my earlier post...

Found it! It's a Champion from c. 1976. Look at how bad the bottom of the logo is:

(Image removed from quote.)

I took a sampling of 8 from across the range of 1982-1996. I used Photoshop to cut out the logo on the first one and overlay on all the others. They all matched up as far as I could tell. The image in the post here is scaled to 1280px wide. Click here for a high res version.

(Image removed from quote.)

BTW, one more interesting thing is that as far as I can tell the early SS inlays are a different alloy than the later ones. Early SS logos are not (or are weakly) magnetic while the later ones post 1980 are. Using a fairly weak refrigerator magnet, I can lift the magnet from my hand with the post 1980 inlays, but not with the earlier ones. This would suggest that they used an austenitic alloy (like in flatware) for the first attempt and a martensitic steel (like the steel in their blades) for the second.

Thanks for the follow-up on the post-'80 versions, jazzbass!  Seemed pretty clear to me reviewing photos over the years, but I haven't put any effort into confirming that they are essentially the same.

Regarding the magnetic materials, I can confirm that this knife has a magnetic shield and a non-magnetic car inlay c. '76:



Not to get ahead of myself in the series, but I also suspect that the early non-magnetic inlays had different alloys...or at the very least different levels of polish or just different finishes. The earliest copies c. '72/'73 appear quite clearly different to the naked eye when viewed side by side.

I am a bit surprised at how bad that c. '76 shield is, but does explain the 'sudden' and broad use of NS shields again in the '77-'79 range.

[kamakiri]

For the V2n example, I probably should have used this example from a c. '78 Grand Prix Jr.:





Misplaced it a while back and couldn't find it when I started this thread.  Found it today when I was reorganizing some stuff and was putting away some other Grands Prix I was using for a challenge.  The other one might be a prettier knife, but this one looks more original and photographs better with the patina.

[Rapidray]

Very nice example. It is on my short list

[kamakiri]

Minor update- I have also found Grands Prix (also In no-scissor Jr.) with V1n ‘12 spoke’ scales without clip point blades. Still c. ‘73.

Also finally continuing this series:
Part 2- Catalogs

[Huntsman]

Fantastic thread - Love the Grand Prix - Although I only have the one from about '84

The level of knowledge and observation - and size of examples in collections - in these types of threads - never ceases to amaze me!!   

Thread added to the stickied Identification Resources thread in the SAK board

[kamakiri]

 

Thanks for the kind comments Huntsman!

I hope this sort of information helps the community more than it hurts my wallet!