Dumb phones on 4G?

[AimlessWanderer]

Are they even a thing?

While my trusty BlackBerry is still working, it's starting to show its age. The keys (yes, it has proper buttons) don't always register with every hit, or might double press, which can be a bit tedious at times. I've said for a while now, that when this finally expires, I'll go back to a basic flip phone or similar.

I don't "do" apps, or social media, or Google, or any of the other things that are designed to extract data from us every minute of every day. I know we're all supposed to, and mindlessly comply with buying the latest tech so they can harvest more data from us more efficiently, but that's really not my style If I wanted a tracking device, I'd be a criminal, they fit you with one for free  I want to get as far away from all that smurf as possible. However, transmitters are a real obstacle for going back to the old phones.

Most providers aren't maintaining their 3G networks any more, (which is how I ended up on 4G with my current SIM) so buying an old Nokia 3310 or dusting off one of my old basic phones, won't get me very far. So I'm looking for a 2G (maybe 3G if I add email/browser), but with 4G connectivity. Absolutely no iOS or Android or Windows, but the ability to use modern antenna. Ability to remove the battery would be a bonus.

Is anything like this actually made anymore? My searches all seem to lead to obsolete connectivity or Android. 

[greenbear]

Nokia make a "new" version of the 3310 that, I believe, is compatible with network upgrades.  I use an old C2 Nokia, largely because I like to choose when I log into social media rather than have it follow me around.  I've not experienced any problems yet......

[Don Pablo]

Nokia make a "new" version of the 3310 that, I believe, is compatible with network upgrades.  I use an old C2 Nokia, largely because I like to choose when I log into social media rather than have it follow me around.  I've not experienced any problems yet......

It's only 3G though, I believe?

[greenbear]

It's only 3G though, I believe?

That shouldn't affect the phone signal, only the web browser, and I believe that 3G is not disappearing, you just won't get the benefits of the additional bandwidth (although it was argued that the networks won't maintain 3G over the long term).

[hiraethus]

Nokia 8810 is the only one I can think of.

Actually, looks like the Nokia 220 is 4G too.

[AimlessWanderer]

Nokia 8810 is the only one I can think of.

Actually, looks like the Nokia 220 is 4G too.

Thanks Chris, I'll check them out 

Nokia make a "new" version of the 3310 that, I believe, is compatible with network upgrades.  I use an old C2 Nokia, largely because I like to choose when I log into social media rather than have it follow me around.  I've not experienced any problems yet......

It's only 3G though, I believe?

Yes, the one's I've seen are only 3G

That shouldn't affect the phone signal, only the web browser, and I believe that 3G is not disappearing, you just won't get the benefits of the additional bandwidth (although it was argued that the networks won't maintain 3G over the long term).

I was told that 4G masts don't support the 3G sims needed for the older phones (or something to that effect - I forget the exact reasons). The reason I ended up with my current 4G sim, is that I was having connectivity issues (phone and data), and they specifically told me that whilst they were leaving the 3G masts running (for now), they were no longer repairing them. That was a couple of years ago. Once the new sim arrived (I was still using the same phone) everything worked great.

[Steinar]

Don't know about your part of the woods, but here 3G is in the process of being totally shut down. No plans I know of for shutting down 2G, though, so just keeping on to an old phone should probably work for a long time other places too, I would guess?

[AimlessWanderer]

Don't know about your part of the woods, but here 3G is in the process of being totally shut down. No plans I know of for shutting down 2G, though, so just keeping on to an old phone should probably work for a long time other places too, I would guess?

That's an interesting point. I don't know how much 2G infrastructure remains here, tough there's still the secondary question as to whether they're maintaining it.

[Steinar]

I did some reading regarding 2/3/4G now, and it seems the strategies are all over the place internationally. I just naïvely assumed most carriers would keep 2G as sort of a catch-all fallback. So, yeah, probably safest to find some 4G feature phone. Seems there's a few brands making them, but not something I know enough about to recommend anything. 

[Steinar]

WTF? I had no idea Kyocera made phones? http://www.kyoceramobile.com/duratr/

[cody6268]

WTF? I had no idea Kyocera made phones? http://www.kyoceramobile.com/duratr/

MGranddad's had a DuraXE (AT&T model) for four years; and it's semi-smart (I can download PDFs and view them; super-useful for service manuals in the field) and loads pages pretty quick. Still going strong; despite regular abuse. It runs on a form of Android, believes it or not. I didn't know that until recently.  I have an NEC Terrain--battery drains easily, it gets hot when browsing the web, and Chrome crashes when viewing this site (and only this site for some silly reason). The DuraXE will load MTO with no issue. Think it's time I moved to a DuraForce Pro.

[gustophersmob]

Nokia 220 4G?

Not sure if it’s available in the UK 

https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-220-4g

[AimlessWanderer]

Nokia 220 4G?

Not sure if it’s available in the UK 

https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-220-4g

Yeah, Hiraethus mentioned that one earlier, Gus. I think that might be the one. 

I was really liking the look of the 8810 (I had one first time around), but sadly it comes pre-infested with a load of Google stuff, so that's essentially as bad as Android 

[gustophersmob]

Yeah, Hiraethus mentioned that one earlier, Gus. I think that might be the one. 

I was really liking the look of the 8810 (I had one first time around), but sadly it comes pre-infested with a load of Google stuff, so that's essentially as bad as Android 

Ah, I missed his mention of the 220 

Too bad about the 8810. I saw that about the google stuff too.

[AimlessWanderer]

Ah, I missed his mention of the 220 

Too bad about the 8810. I saw that about the google stuff too.

Yeah, there's also a Nokia flip phone that looks half decent (something beginning with 2...), but that's riddled with Google too.

... and the 4G version of the 220 is proving difficult to source in the UK. They really don't want us buying stuff that doesn't let them stalk and log our every move, thought, and whim, do they? 

If I don't find something civilised soon, I might need to call my service provider, and see if I can get a little more clarity on what they're planning on doing with masts.

[AimlessWanderer]

Well, all the stalking that various countries have been doing with their populations in relation to the current pandemic, has finally tipped me over the edge. I decided to take a gamble on a Nokia 8110 4G. It does come pre-infested with Google, but it was the dumbest 4G phone I could find, and for £35 for a refurbed unit, I was prepared to take the gamble.

Whether I end up using it, or how often, depends on how confident I am that I can neuter the spyware (social media, Google, etc). I doubt there will be the facility to delete those applications, but there might be other workarounds.

For a start, I won't be telling the gmail and outlook apps my email address, and my internet usage will be limited to my laptop only, except in dire emergencies. I'm also going to see if it can run with data disabled. GPS too if it has it. If all else fails, I believe it has a removable battery, so that can be carried separately. No juice, no worky. After all, a mobile phone is for MY convenience, not other people's, or for the convenience of entities wanting our data.

I'm sure that by the time we all get cajoled into using 5G (other networks being decommissioned for example), that every device will have full stalking technology as standard. In which case they can all smurf off, and I'll go without a phone at all. In the meantime, hopefully this will let me live with a modicum of dignity, without feeling like a chipped dog.

[Sea Monster]

You can get "dumb-ish" phones for 4G - they are (technically) Android, but scraped back to a bare minimum, and you can optionally switch between 3 and 4 gees, depending on if you feel you need the extra G.

You can't install apps or anything, you can theoretically use the internet in extremis, but with the limited inputs (ie - 12 numeral/symbol keys, call, hang up, and menu buttons) it's also basically impossible to navigate any page. (bit like trying to use the internet on a kindle...it'll connect, and that's about it....)

Line a drawer at home (and the centre console of your car) with alfoil to create a poor mans faraday cage, and voila - your secrets are safe.

After all, a mobile phone is for MY convenience, not other people's, or for the convenience of entities wanting our data.

Amen




We still have 3g, here, and will do until 2024 - but, my service provider would not sell me a 3g phone. They had it, right there, in the store, a 3g phone, even branded with the service providers name - and they would not sell it to me - because "we're shutting down 3g"

Presumably they're shutting down 3g because no one is buying 3g phones.....

I decided to take a gamble on a Nokia 8110 4G. It does come pre-infested with Google, but it was the dumbest 4G phone I could find,

I couldn't get one for love nor money- the store people (went to four electrical goods stores who had them advertised) all said they weren't popular enough to restock, and yet they had sold out?

I'm not suggesting evil, none of those dregs are smart enough to be evil - but certainly making smurf up as they go along....

[Smashie]

Snip

Hey Al, there is a way removing the pre-installed apps here

As for tracking via other means (other than the network itself);

1. Turn off WiFi, with out the apps you wont need it
2. Never turn on Bluetooth. 8110 has a wired headset and you want to avoid the Bluetooth beacons that are set up all over metropolitan areas and in shops.
[/quote]

[AimlessWanderer]

Hey Al, there is a way removing the pre-installed apps here

Excellent! Cheers Mark 

I'll have a good look at that when it arrives, and has cleared "quarantine". 

Yeah, I have no use for Bluetooth. I almost always use wired headphones, or onboard hands free speaker. I did get a bluetooth headset, but it's just something else to have to remember to charge.

You can get "dumb-ish" phones for 4G - they are (technically) Android, but scraped back to a bare minimum, and you can optionally switch between 3 and 4 gees, depending on if you feel you need the extra G.

I did see a couple of Android based phones that had been purged of malware, but they were hellishly expensive. I also get the impression that Android itself can be quite vulnerable to remote attacks. I don't think this KaiOS will be the same, as it's probably not popular enough to be worth the effort.

BTW, there's no secrets to hide. I'm just sick and tired of the way we're all milked for data, with the assumption that anything we do and think, is theirs to take at our expense. Just look at 5G. It's not that we'll necessarily be getting more data, we'll just be producing data more efficiently for third parties, whilst paying the elevated costs for the privilege. No thanks. I'm not interested in paying to be a commodity.

I think it's very telling that there aren't private phones offered at reasonable costs. I know plenty of other people who only use their phones for calls, texts, and maybe alarm clock, calculator and/or camera. It's not that folks don't want to buy them, they just don't want to sell them.

[Sea Monster]

I did see a couple of Android based phones that had been purged of malware, but they were hellishly expensive. I also get the impression that Android itself can be quite vulnerable to remote attacks

One I saw was about $20 more than a Nokia 220....

BTW, there's no secrets to hide. I'm just sick and tired of the way we're all milked for data, with the assumption that anything we do and think, is theirs to take at our expense. Just look at 5G. It's not that we'll necessarily be getting more data, we'll just be producing data more efficiently for third parties, whilst paying the elevated costs for the privilege. No thanks. I'm not interested in paying to be a commodity.

Where you are, how long you stay there, what route you took, and how you traveled, whilst not necessarily being "secrets" is none the less your information, and you have a right to protect it.

[AimlessWanderer]

One I saw was about $20 more than a Nokia 220....

Oh! I was probably looking for the wrong thing, in the wrong place...

Where you are, how long you stay there, what route you took, and how you traveled, whilst not necessarily being "secrets" is none the less your information, and you have a right to protect it.

 

[Syncop8r]

You can turn off GPS (although it's handy if you need to find your phone) but all phones are tracked (roughly) by which towers you are connecting to. Network providers keep this information for up to a year or so (I think?). I can think of at least a couple of court cases where this data has been used.

[AimlessWanderer]

You can turn off GPS (although it's handy if you need to find your phone) but all phones are tracked (roughly) by which towers you are connecting to. Network providers keep this information for up to a year or so (I think?). I can think of at least a couple of court cases where this data has been used.

Yeah, I know you're logged against the nearest mast. That doesn't really tell anyone much though. I'm not trying to be completely off-grid, or I'd abandon every single device altogether.

It's more about feeling in control of your own data, and not being continually exploited. It's a bit like the difference between someone seeing you walk down the street, and someone following you round everywhere you go, noting down everything you do. You might not want to punch everyone in the street that happens see you, but you probably would want to rearrange the features of the one following you round and taking notes.

I think the digital realm is similar, except the stalkers there are a normailty, and there's loads of them all profiteering off other people's data. I heard recently that big data has now exceeded energy production in terms of industry size. I'll not elude them altogether, some digital elements can be quite useful, but I'll use them at my convenience, not the other way round.

[Aloha]

When your phone makes a call, it transmits the ESN (electronic serial number) and MIN (mobile identification number or phone number) to the network at the beginning of the call. The MIN/ESN pair is a unique tag for your phone.  Whatever information you had to provide to the carrier for service is information available to who knows? 

[AimlessWanderer]

Absolutely. As I said early, I'll not eliminate it altogether.

It's a sliding scale of using everything, posting all your thoughts and feelings on social media, and exposing yourself to every form of tracking there is out there, to locking down completely, ditching all internet, only using cash on in-person transactions, and trying to drop off-grid altogether.

I intend to push back to a level i'm comfortable with, which includes minimising the digital footprint, not having devices with nefarious apps on, not pinging every bluetooth beacon and wi-fi network I pass through/by, and trimming back to what I actually need. Then of course there's other options such as ad-blockers, VPNs, obfuscation and so on.

Regular internet use, was once about us freely accessing data, but now it's based around entities freely accessing ours. I'm pushing back, and want to be able to have a free choice of the individual data transactions I make. The websites under the Yahoo and Verizon banners are highly invasive, so when their GDRP warning pops up, I close that site down and look elsewhere. That's just one example of a free choice.

I've boycotted Amazon, but still use ebay, I avoid using social media, but still use a couple of forums. I still do some online shopping, but avoid Google stores. Free choices. I choose, to as large an extent as possible, what data transactions I enter into. By virtue of having a back account, paying taxes, having a doctor, and having any form of telephony device at all, data of mine is being collected and used. Some data gets used to keep us safe, some is to manage services offered, some is to generate vast profits.

I can choose where some of my money goes, and some I have less control over. I still try and manage overall expenditure though. Personal data is a secondary currency these days. You pay it to access services, but there are many who will take it from you and give you nothing back. Again, I want to manage whatever transactions I can, and even though I won't go overdrawn, keep that expenditure to a minimum, eliminate the freeloaders, and only make the individual transaction if I think what I'm getting in return is worth it.

[Aloha]

Data mining or better put "the extraction of patterns and knowledge from large amounts of data" is the name of the game.  I used to do all transaction cash only.  I paid everything from my mortgage to gas all cash all the time.  It was surprising how much hassle that was for those who really seemed not to want to take the cash  . 

Once we're plugged into the "grid" I feel much like you, whatever limits we can impose the better.  I'm just not confident we are limiting as much as we think or if at all anything.  Its feels good tho thats for sure.  This is the only forum I'm on and my only source of social media other than watching videos however thats another data mining operation. 

What have I got to hide?  Everything  . 

       

[AimlessWanderer]

Nothing to hide.
Everything to protect.
 

Like all big battles, you have to appreciate the small victories. There's always some data going somewhere, but every question I ask Duckduckgo instead of Gargoyle, every item I don't buy on Amazon, every site I log into without using Facebook or Chrome, every recipe I get from a book instead of a Wordpress site, every single data raping opportunity I block is another two fingered salute from me.

[pomsbz]

Hey Al, there is a way removing the pre-installed apps here

As for tracking via other means (other than the network itself);

1. Turn off WiFi, with out the apps you wont need it
2. Never turn on Bluetooth. 8110 has a wired headset and you want to avoid the Bluetooth beacons that are set up all over metropolitan areas and in shops.

Thanks for that, I've had one in its box since it was launched and simply couldn't use it due to all the nonsense.

[Smashie]

 

Thanks for that, I've had one in its box since it was launched and simply couldn't use it due to all the nonsense.

 

[pomsbz]

 

Another thing I found with it was just how flimsy it is compared to traditional nokias (I currently carry a C2-01 and have carried nokia's my entire 'mobile' life). It's really not made to the standards that used to define a Nokia.