Official Pioneer Owner’s Club!

philodemus · **Reply #120 on:** February 12, 2020, 12:53:15 AM

Quote from: 39hotrod on February 11, 2020, 02:29:36 PM

.. Awesome collection.. Colorful too!!
John

Thanks!

Storm · **Reply #121 on:** February 20, 2020, 05:57:41 AM

BBQ in the sunshine

Rapidray · **Reply #122 on:** February 20, 2020, 02:52:32 PM

Those are some great looking sausage? links - glad I just ate breakfast or I would be hitting the fridge!

Storm · **Reply #123 on:** February 20, 2020, 06:42:06 PM

Juicy pork and cider sausages- wife found them in the supermarket so we have them a try. Very nice they are too.

Rapidray · **Reply #124 on:** February 20, 2020, 09:03:35 PM

That sound delicious

ElevenBlade · **Reply #125 on:** February 20, 2020, 11:28:49 PM

Where does everyone find these Pioneers in all these colors?

I just saw a nice navy blue one listed on the Vic website, the only catch is you have to buy the $1000 watch it comes with.

Frailer · **Reply #126 on:** February 22, 2020, 03:08:50 AM

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this already, but I just noticed that our own @Myron has posted an update to his excellent blog serial on our beloved Pioneer/Soldier:

http://www.roverhaven.com/the-rover-haven-blog/2019/9/28/kqw0fotnoxy30775jyvfc4qr07y5el

Storm · **Reply #127 on:** February 22, 2020, 04:04:08 AM

Thanks for that link, I'm off like a shot to pore over it

Myron · **Reply #128 on:** February 22, 2020, 02:41:15 PM

Hey thanks, guys! It's a shorter installment, but I'm particularly excited about Part 4 which is mostly drafted and just in the sleeping-on-it phase.

Happy weekend all,

Myron

ElevenBlade · **Reply #129 on:** February 22, 2020, 03:27:39 PM

Myron. That's brilliant work!

I seem to recall having read in a couple of places that besides being a plumb bob, the 1961 Soldier had an additional direct use.

With the awl and can opener both extended, it had some particular function in the maintenance of a rifle. I believe the hook on the opener was secured to something and the awl was lined up in the right place for something or other...

Any truth to that?

Myron · **Reply #130 on:** February 22, 2020, 05:11:52 PM

Hmm, I've not read that exact description, but one could easily see how the sharp end of the awl might come in handy as a precision pointer. However, I think where this falls apart is in the practical act of suspending the knife by its can opener. If you look at one, it seems like it would be precarious at best.

What I've read about the true function of the hollow rivet (and hence the plumb bob functionality) on pre-1993 Model 1961's, and what I believe to be true, has been written about by Roger Remund, founder of Swiss Bianco and veteran of the Swiss army. He has explained that the knife could be suspended by a lanyard and, in conjunction with some other kit, be used to establish trajectory when setting up your rifle as a grenade launcher.

There is a famous picture of a 1970's-era Swiss soldier doing just this. MTo member jalind, whom I haven't seen around here for a while, posted these pics from a book a few years back. I miss John and his many contributions to this place. Link: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=68993.90

PS, ElevenBlade, I almost forgot to thank you for the compliment!

ElevenBlade · **Reply #131 on:** February 22, 2020, 05:53:10 PM

Quote from: Myron on February 22, 2020, 05:11:52 PM

Hmm, I've not read that exact description, but one could easily see how the sharp end of the awl might come in handy as a precision pointer. However, I think where this falls apart is in the practical act of suspending the knife by its can opener. If you look at one, it seems like it would be precarious at best.

What I've read about the true function of the hollow rivet (and hence the plumb bob functionality) on pre-1993 Model 1961's, and what I believe to be true, has been written about by Roger Remund, founder of Swiss Bianco and veteran of the Swiss army. He has explained that the knife could be suspended by a lanyard and, in conjunction with some other kit, be used to establish trajectory when setting up your rifle as a grenade launcher.

There is a famous picture of a 1970's-era Swiss soldier doing just this. MTo member jalind, whom I haven't seen around here for a while, posted these pics from a book a few years back. I miss John and his many contributions to this place. Link: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=68993.90

PS, ElevenBlade, I almost forgot to thank you for the compliment!

I can't find the reference now...

I hadn't thought of it as being suspended from the hook of the can opener... Rather, the hook was latched on to some mechanism on a rifle, and that whole mechanism adjusted with the SAK as a guide to keep the extended awl in line to where it needed to be...

Unfortunately I don't remember where I got such an idea...

I could be wrong.

Myron · **Reply #132 on:** February 22, 2020, 06:10:07 PM

Wow, that would be really cool to know about. Please post when you find out more information about this. Sounds super cool!

ElevenBlade · **Reply #133 on:** February 22, 2020, 10:11:13 PM

" The 1961 model also contains a brass spacer, which allows the knife, with the screwdriver and the reamer extended simultaneously, to be used to assemble the SIG 550 and SIG 510 assault rifles: the knife serves as a restraint to the firing pin during assembly of the lock. "

From Wikipedia

Myron · **Reply #134 on:** February 22, 2020, 11:54:04 PM

Aha! So this is a little different than I was thinking. Do you think by "screwdriver" it is meant the cap-lifter?

Seeing this also prompted me to look at the liners on mine. None of them has brass liners, so the article must be using the term more generically to mean non-ferrous.

That's a very interesting little tidbit, ElevenBlade. Thanks for posting it!

Myron

ElevenBlade · **Reply #135 on:** February 23, 2020, 01:57:29 AM

Quote from: Myron on February 22, 2020, 11:54:04 PM

Aha! So this is a little different than I was thinking. Do you think by "screwdriver" it is meant the cap-lifter?

Seeing this also prompted me to look at the liners on mine. None of them has brass liners, so the article must be using the term more generically to mean non-ferrous.

That's a very interesting little tidbit, ElevenBlade. Thanks for posting it!

Myron

Someone posted something somewhere recently about brass liners... I believe they may have noticed that some were brass and some weren't, questioning quality over the generations.

I bet you're right about the cap lifter.

Anyway. We learn something new every day, don't we.

One of my take home points from reading all your articles is that nobody really "owns" the four bladed scout model. There probably wasn't a real collective evolution toward the toolset over time... No crowd-sourced wisdom that the Pioneer model is the ideal one to make it the choice for the Swiss and the American military (demo knife) as well as the Boy Scouts.

In other words - each of us evolves in our toolset over time into what we need in a long term, versatile EDC. After 20 years of obsessively pondering these things, I decide I need scissors... Someone else may need a file.

... but I don't suppose that similar thought was put into the toolset, given the slightly circular history. Which came first? The can of beans in the rations, or the can opener on the knife?

Myron · **Reply #136 on:** February 23, 2020, 05:04:34 AM

Storm · **Reply #137 on:** February 23, 2020, 05:37:30 AM

Quote from: ElevenBlade link=topic=83046.msg2091608#msg2091608 date=1582419449

...Which came first? The can of beans in the rations, or the can opener on the knife?
[/quote

]

Is this to be The Question to be asked upon initiation to the Pioneer club, to open our minds in a Zen fashion ?

ElevenBlade · **Reply #138 on:** February 23, 2020, 03:43:26 PM

Quote from: Storm on February 23, 2020, 05:37:30 AM

I think it should be!

ElevenBlade · **Reply #139 on:** February 23, 2020, 03:50:23 PM

I think it should be!

In my readings of the great scholar Myron of the Knights of the Swiss Army, I found this to be the fundamental unanswered question. Maester Myron goes on to point out that the Officers of the Swiss Army were able to acquire (to be sure, they weren't issued) a knife with a corkscrew on it. The officers were afforded the luxury of some wine in the field, and in a both practical and symbolic fashion, their SAKs were adapted for that functionality. But what if the social symbol of luxury, or perhaps creature comforts was a fresh fish? Would the fish scaler have been mounted on the Officer's Knife instead of the corkscrew? Was the availability of wine in the officers quarters a pragmatic decision based on the available tools at that time, or was it the a priori cultural "necessity" to fulfill that purpose?

While Maester Myron's observation that the Swiss Army Officers knife evolved to meet a specific need is an astute one, we can't be certain that this adaptation wasn't within the confines of the available technology, rather than a product of the morés and folkways of the social structure of that space and time.

"Which came first? The can of beans in the rations or the can opener on the knife?". Indeed, this is the fundamental question.

While the Corkscrew Quandary does serve to frame the question, it falls short in providing any definitive insight.

Where are Aloha and CBL when you need them?

Storm · **Reply #140 on:** February 24, 2020, 12:16:33 AM

Don't look it up, for Wikipedia sayeth canned rations or Americans began in 1938, but the can itself was patented in 1810. However the first can opener was invented in Jan 5 1858.

ElevenBlade · **Reply #141 on:** February 24, 2020, 12:29:30 AM

My worldview crumbleth before mine own eyes.

Storm · **Reply #142 on:** February 24, 2020, 03:22:57 AM

Quote from: ElevenBlade on February 24, 2020, 12:29:30 AM

My worldview crumbleth before mine own eyes.

Lo, we must begin a new quest for ever more obscure questions to be answered in the fullness of time
Also, use thine mighty sword of Swissness to rebuild thine view , for I am sure that there be a capable tool contained therein

BClogic · **Reply #143 on:** February 24, 2020, 03:27:16 AM

Reporting for duty, well 100% after the FM challenge.
All cleaned and snap worthy. Pic taken with a pin from grandpas collection. He wasn’t 33rd Division, but it’s a cool pin none the less

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ElevenBlade · **Reply #144 on:** February 24, 2020, 03:54:06 AM

Welcome BClogic!

Just to get you up to speed, we're having a grand old time running in circles. Our very own Myron is the author who got the Alox bug after you, and is following this thread.

As you restore the Soldier you just got, and overthink the missed opportunity to get a cap lifter with a grind on it (as I did), might I interest you in some of the pictures on this thread? Perhaps a Pioneer of your very own?

In the words of the late philosopher and musician Neil Peart "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

When the options of wire strippers and hollow rivets become too much to navigate, the trusty Pioneer is a faithful companion. The Pioneer won't bog you down with birth years and bails. It will ride in your pocket, or on a lanyard, by your side - never demanding special treatment because of its pedigree.

But we know... We know the true origins of the Pioneer.

Rapidray · **Reply #145 on:** February 24, 2020, 03:59:11 AM

Quote from: BClogic on February 24, 2020, 03:27:16 AM

Reporting for duty, well 100% after the FM challenge.
All cleaned and snap worthy. Pic taken with a pin from grandpas collection. He wasn’t 33rd Division, but it’s a cool pin none the less(Image removed from quote.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is so cool!

BClogic · **Reply #146 on:** February 24, 2020, 04:01:42 AM

Quote from: ElevenBlade on February 24, 2020, 03:54:06 AM

Welcome BClogic!

Just to get you up to speed, we're having a grand old time running in circles. Our very own Myron is the author who got the Alox bug after you, and is following this thread.

As you restore the Soldier you just got, and overthink the missed opportunity to get a cap lifter with a grind on it (as I did), might I interest you in some of the pictures on this thread? Perhaps a Pioneer of your very own?

In the words of the late philosopher and musician Neil Peart "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

When the options of wire strippers and hollow rivets become too much to navigate, the trusty Pioneer is a faithful companion. The Pioneer won't bog you down with birth years and bails. It will ride in your pocket, or on a lanyard, by your side - never demanding special treatment because of its pedigree.

But we know... We know the true origins of the Pioneer.

Love the Rush reference

tbh, its the shield. It draws to me. I have an Electrician, brand new. But its the shield. I really enjoy how the soldier/SI shield looks. I hope this doesn't draw a call to arms with all the fine pioneer owners here!