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Starting a new Juice Modification

Offline Trebor Redins

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Starting a new Juice Modification
on: October 31, 2019, 04:32:32 AM
Howdy all,

After modding my squirt to my hearts content and not being many other things I can do with it, I'm moving on to the Juice. I've ebay'd a couple of Juice Pros to start the adventure and am pretty exited. I've got the tool concept planned out, ideally wanting to add the bit exchanger, the saw/file exchanger, and make all blades removable (adding a havalon style scalpel holder) so that it meets the TSA requirements. Ideally I'd like to add a fire starting component as well, but I'd probably be willing to compromise on that part.

I've got right off the start, any input you guys have would be great!

1. Does anyone know where to source knife pivots long enough of the Juice Pro? Can't tell how much room you save with removing the scales, but looks like they'd have to be at least 1.8 cm long. I believe they are the 1/8th diameter (please correct me if I'm wrong)

2. Any tips for getting rid of the rivets? Planning on cutting them with a rotary tool as I don't have a drill press.

3. Anyone have a source the Saw/File exchangers? On ebay right now they're going to cost more than the Juice Pro. I can bite the bullet if need be, but if anyone has any extras I could buy off you for a more reasonable price please let me know.


I bought the Juice Pros because they're cheaper on Ebay than the XE6 and I really wanted the file, not to mention they have the tweezer slot and wine end cutter. Truth be told after the first one arrived I feel a little guilty about taking it to the chopping block, I think it's probably the most tool dense I've seen and truth be told almost perfect for my needs already. Anyone know why they stopped making it?


gb Offline BePrepared

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 07:01:31 AM
You can construct longer pivots by putting a screw half-way into one and glueing it fixed, then grind off the head of the screw and fit another pivot.  Now you have a pivot 2x longer.
That's what I did to make this 8 layer Juice:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,74592.msg1606807.html#msg1606807

Juice pivots are 1/8 inch, and available from US knife making sites.  I also know of one EU site.

I usually grind off the head slowly with a dremel, and end up pulling off the outer ring/doughnut rim of the rivit.  Then you need to push through the rivit.  It's a pain in the .... but do-able by hand.

PM me if you want tips on getting the backsprings back in --- once you know the methid it's fairly easy.

To get the Wave/Surge tools to fit on the smaller 1/8" pivot I cut up some tin can material into strips and wrapped that around the pivot until I had padded it out enough.  I've also used (steam train modelmaking) brass tubing that comes in 1/64 (?) wall thickness, with various metric outer diameter, and each tube fits inside the other, so you can build up shims in steps of 2/64" too.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 07:29:06 AM by BePrepared »


Offline Trebor Redins

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 11:24:32 PM
Less than stellar job on my part as far as removing the scales goes. The outside aluminum is mostly scrap at this point. I wasn't going to use it but a little annoyed I couldn't get them off more cleanly.

Next is to cut out the scalpel holder, using one of the juice's tools to create a template. The one I used (Wiebe Monarch) was relatively easy to work, probably didn't need a cobalt drill bit to go through. I iterated down on the locking cut, trying it out on the juice frame after every few passes on the grinder to make sure that I didn't go to far. Right now I think I've got a good angle but might trim it down a  little more once I get the whole thing set and assembled.





Next on to trying to get the wave bit driver to fit.
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Offline Trebor Redins

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 06:20:04 PM
Not my cleanest work, but I got the bit holder to fit with back springs in place.





The way i went about this was by only using two back springs from the side that typically has the three flat head drivers. The springs are on the two edges and allow for a channel down the middle. For the wave bit driver, I ground down the two sides that flank the spring that holds the bit in place, creating a bit of a mowhawk.




I also continued this mowhalk pattern to where the the part of the bit driver that typically locks into the wave's backspring, cutting the two outer edges of the two to match the juice's tool base pattern, but leaving a ridge down the middle. This ridge started off as the original height, but after experimenting I've trimmed it down a fair bit and will continue to trim it down and polish it.  This ridge now continues down the bit driver and ensures that the two back springs are held apart on the edges of the channel, both when the tool is open and closed.



 On the other end, to hold them apart at the pliers end, I added a squirt back  spring that I trimmed down just to fill the gap. I'll likely need to glue (?any better ideas) this in place to provide a spacer, this back spring does not need to apply any pressure, just hold the two juice ones apart.

The trimming down of the bit driver has certainly weakened it, but as long as I don't try to use it as a pry bar I think it should be fine for turning screws. At this point I'm planning on buffing it up a little as it's not currently the nicest looking. I've also got little else to do as I wait for my pivots to arrive to put the tool together.


gb Offline BePrepared

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 06:42:53 AM
Very, very clever idea for the wave bit holder!   :salute:


Offline Trebor Redins

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 08:51:59 PM
Alright, so a bit of an update, not finished but we're getting close. Followed BePrepared's advice and threaded two 5/16 knife pivots together. Assembling the tool, there was still an issue with the tool closing completely due to the pliers length. To fix this, the pliers became a little stubbier as I took about half a centimeter off the end.



With the tool closing better, I went ahead and began to assemble. Scissors and file went in without much of a problem, but I was replacing the foil wine knife with the awl. It's just a little too long and overlaps a bit with the can opener/wine lever. To address this, I cut a small groove in the can opener to allow the awl to nest in when closed.




For the scalpel blade, I flipped the juice scale so that the backspring holder sticks out instead of in. I cut a ruler to use as the outside scale. This allows for a slightly symmetrical look with the cutout for the corkscrew. Still need to polish it up and trim it down in some spots just a little, along with adding the saw holder I have on order, but overall it's a good approximation of what it will end up looking like.







Offline Trebor Redins

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 09:00:05 PM
Just for fun, the Juice next to my Squirt, both with removable/replaceable blades, bit drivers, file, and scissors.



00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #7 on: November 15, 2019, 10:17:09 AM
 :tu: I really like what your have done with the juice. Especially with the stainless steel ruler as the scales. Always wanted to do that but cant find the time and the pivot screws are just too darn expensive... Great to have someone working on the juice line.  :like:


Offline Trebor Redins

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #8 on: June 17, 2022, 07:21:03 PM
So, it' been awhile and no one really cares about juice mods, especially with them being retired, but in case this helps anyone who wants to do similar I figured I'd give an update on the evolution of the tool. Maybe I can finally get some of those nifty hacker badges.
Overall, the tool has held up pretty well despite the fact that I'm notorious for abusing them. I did have one of the fancy screws fail (when I was putting it back together after a change) and the plier head pivot which didn't start the tightest has gotten loser, not terribly loose, but a little play.
Finishing the tool right before the pandemic hit meant that it got carried on quite a lot of hiking and backpacking trips, where it performed well, but I was trying to make some swedish fire logs and I figured having a saw would be nice. The juice size means that a fixed saw would be under 3 inches, which is fine for a blade but for me of questionable utility with a saw. That meant I needed some form of a blade exchanger. I had some that I had picked up off taobao that I figured I might be able to squeeze in the gap from the thin scalpel blade.




While I was able to fit it in with enough trimming, the limitation of the juice body meant that it either needed to stick out way too far when closed or I was trimming enough "meat" off the sides to make it too weak to support actual sawing. I unfortunately don't have any pictures of when it was briefly working, but I do have several of the aftermath. 



So I had to scrap that idea. I have seen folks who modify a saw to fit in the bit exchanger, but having to modify the saw blades and the fact that my bit exchanger was already trimmed, a pain to make, and not worth breaking took that off the table. However, I then found Sam Lim's post about using the pliers frame to hold a t shank blade with no modification.



It holds a blade securely and you can saw all day with this mod, however, and I know this is a little vain and stupid, it looks kind of silly. I know that doesn't really matter, but I still wanted to see what I could do about it. I mounted the juice to a piece of wood in the approximate position it will be in when closed. If you're going to try this, remember that the frame is offset by both the backsprings as well as the pliers width. My goal was to take just enough out of the frame to make the handles nearly close when the t shank is in, so that you can still apply pressure by leveraging on the handle without physical resistance aside from the friction on the T shank/ I started with dremel to speed it up but finished the majority with a hand file.







Measuring with my calipers, the cut portion to the pivot is still not the thinnest, so it should not have weakened the pliers much, although we'll have to see how it holds up over the next couple of years. It holds the t shank very securely and increases the overall contact, so I'm happy with it. As Sam called out in his original post, this will fit standard T shanks, but not the leatherman ones as those are too thick. However, you're not limited in length of the standard saw blades. The handle is comfortable to grip and getting the blades in and out is not an issue, so I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.
Also, this freed up the space that the taobao blade exchanger was taking up. Waste not want not, so I added a wave small bit exchanger into that space. It does not affect the scalpel blade opening and closing, and fits nicely into the small pocket of space..




Offline Trebor Redins

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #9 on: June 17, 2022, 07:39:30 PM
There's also the havalon saw blade, which works as well, but again comes back to the short length limitation.


* SmartSelect_20220617-113627_Gallery.jpg (Filesize: 466.16 KB)


pr Offline Juan el Boricua

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #10 on: June 18, 2022, 01:16:18 AM
Nice and practical mods, TR, and glad to see that it is still working out for you. Also, thank you for the F/U.  :tu: :hatsoff: :cheers:


us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #11 on: June 18, 2022, 04:49:47 AM
I missed this thread the first go round ???

Some really great work on the Juice series :salute:

I have never taken one of them apart myself because of the rivets :ahhh the mods on the Squirt are very cool as well :o :like:


00 Offline Sam Lim

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #12 on: June 20, 2022, 06:26:32 PM
So, it' been awhile and no one really cares about juice mods, especially with them being retired, but in case this helps anyone who wants to do similar I figured I'd give an update on the evolution of the tool. Maybe I can finally get some of those nifty hacker badges.
Overall, the tool has held up pretty well despite the fact that I'm notorious for abusing them. I did have one of the fancy screws fail (when I was putting it back together after a change) and the plier head pivot which didn't start the tightest has gotten loser, not terribly loose, but a little play.
Finishing the tool right before the pandemic hit meant that it got carried on quite a lot of hiking and backpacking trips, where it performed well, but I was trying to make some swedish fire logs and I figured having a saw would be nice. The juice size means that a fixed saw would be under 3 inches, which is fine for a blade but for me of questionable utility with a saw. That meant I needed some form of a blade exchanger. I had some that I had picked up off taobao that I figured I might be able to squeeze in the gap from the thin scalpel blade.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

While I was able to fit it in with enough trimming, the limitation of the juice body meant that it either needed to stick out way too far when closed or I was trimming enough "meat" off the sides to make it too weak to support actual sawing. I unfortunately don't have any pictures of when it was briefly working, but I do have several of the aftermath.

(Image removed from quote.)

So I had to scrap that idea. I have seen folks who modify a saw to fit in the bit exchanger, but having to modify the saw blades and the fact that my bit exchanger was already trimmed, a pain to make, and not worth breaking took that off the table. However, I then found Sam Lim's post about using the pliers frame to hold a t shank blade with no modification.

(Image removed from quote.)

It holds a blade securely and you can saw all day with this mod, however, and I know this is a little vain and stupid, it looks kind of silly. I know that doesn't really matter, but I still wanted to see what I could do about it. I mounted the juice to a piece of wood in the approximate position it will be in when closed. If you're going to try this, remember that the frame is offset by both the backsprings as well as the pliers width. My goal was to take just enough out of the frame to make the handles nearly close when the t shank is in, so that you can still apply pressure by leveraging on the handle without physical resistance aside from the friction on the T shank/ I started with dremel to speed it up but finished the majority with a hand file.

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Measuring with my calipers, the cut portion to the pivot is still not the thinnest, so it should not have weakened the pliers much, although we'll have to see how it holds up over the next couple of years. It holds the t shank very securely and increases the overall contact, so I'm happy with it. As Sam called out in his original post, this will fit standard T shanks, but not the leatherman ones as those are too thick. However, you're not limited in length of the standard saw blades. The handle is comfortable to grip and getting the blades in and out is not an issue, so I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.
Also, this freed up the space that the taobao blade exchanger was taking up. Waste not want not, so I added a wave small bit exchanger into that space. It does not affect the scalpel blade opening and closing, and fits nicely into the small pocket of space..

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Wow! Great to see someone still working on the Juice line. Thinking back, I have not used one for a long time. Had always wanted to put on some nice scales on it. Good work you have done here man! 👍👍


us Offline King_Gorilla

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #13 on: July 19, 2022, 02:37:10 AM
 :hatsoff:

Cool


us Offline SteveC

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Re: Starting a new Juice Modification
Reply #14 on: August 14, 2022, 02:05:02 PM
Nice work TR !   :salute:


 

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