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SAK for blade-free zones 1147

No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2019, 09:44:43 PM »
Got some time this weekend to try a few things...

Decided to go with the double backspring to accommodate both openers. This of course means you need to use two opener layer backsprings, and they need serious reprofiling, a lot more than I expected.

Switching the can opener to be next to the cap lifter is easy enough. Just a small adjustment to the heel of the backspring so that it closes at the correct angle.

But the Phillips was another story. I first reprofiled the backspring to follow the same shape as the original spring to get the correct closing/opening positions. But it was way too stiff - to a point where I could hardly lift it out the layer.

After lots of head scratching, I figured out that it’s simply a case of having TWO backsprings pressing on the tool, so it literally has twice the force being applied to keep it closed.

So I trimmed down the backsprings (the end that lies under the Phillips) to about half the thickness to reduce their strength. I’ve now got about the right tension on the Phillips, but of course, the openers and back tools are a little weaker.

I don’t think there’s any solution to this, as the tools share the same backsprings, and with 2 tools on one side and 1 on the other, it’s always going to be difficult to get a suitable balance. I’ve got it close, but not quite as I’d like it.

I also tried 84mm opener tools, as these are the same thickness but are shorter so clear the tip of the Phillips. Unfortunately, I could not get enough elevation in the closed position for the nail nick of the cap lifter to show above the scissors (pivot shape is smaller so sits lower in the scale), so I had to abandon this idea.

So had to trim about 1mm off tip of both openers. Not an issue on the cap lifter, but the can opener will need a reprofile to get back to an identical profile as the original.

Moving the file to the blade layer was easy, just needed to slim down the corkscrew, which means it will sit a little more proud of the scale.

Had to take a break as the build is taking longer than planned and is incomplete. Will have to wait until next weekend to get finished.

I eventually used a SC as the donor. Only extra item I needed was a second opener backspring which I had on hand. Still need to trim off one of the key ring points as I don’t need both.

Here’s the build spec:

L1: scissors | hook
L2: in-line Phillips / cap lifter / tin opener | awl / fine screwdriver
L3: nail file | corkscrew

Will follow up once it’s all done!  :cheers:
No Life Club Posts: 3,151
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2019, 10:14:38 PM »
That looks really good.
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2019, 10:24:10 PM »
 :hatsoff: getting there...
No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2019, 03:27:44 AM »
Wow, sounds like a lot of work! Thanks for doing this, Max!  :tu:

Maybe we can change the layout to make the built easier  :think: I mean this was really out of the ordinary.


Instagram: @lordvicalot
No Life Club Posts: 2,933
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2019, 05:21:52 PM »
Really nice work,!

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,032 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2019, 06:11:49 PM »
Pretty cool mod! Still, a word of caution: they might consider the scissors and awl as "blades". Careful not to loose your knife because of that!

 :tu: :tu:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2019, 08:37:43 PM »
Wow, sounds like a lot of work! Thanks for doing this, Max!  :tu:

Maybe we can change the layout to make the built easier  :think: I mean this was really out of the ordinary.
Yes, I do agree that we may need to look at a more conventional bladeless layout that does not need so much work. I’ll still complete this as a learning exercise.  :cheers:
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2019, 08:40:47 PM »
Pretty cool mod! Still, a word of caution: they might consider the scissors and awl as "blades". Careful not to loose your knife because of that!

 :tu: :tu:
Quite correct - the objective is more a personal carry preference and not to try and get past security, as these pointy tools may still cause a confiscation.
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2019, 08:41:40 PM »
Really nice work,!

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
Thanks kottskrapa  :hatsoff:
No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2019, 05:20:19 PM »
Ok, so let's re-think the layout.

How about this:

L1: Scissors / Corkscrew with mini screwdriver
L2 Metal File/Saw (tip rounded) / small screwdriver
L3: Opener Layer / Hook
Plus Scales

- I did not include the 3D Philips because the only option for the opposing side is the magnifying glass. And a lot of people don't need that. Also the opener layer has a Philips already. Not 3D but still available.
- Layer 1-3 would make for a pretty thin SAK
- I left out the wood saw for several reasons. First this SAK would be more designed toward city/office environment. No real need for a wood saw. Also the teeth are kinda sharp and could be considered a sharp tool or intimidating (Yes, I know  :facepalm:)
- Round off the tip of the metal file so it would not be considered a pointy tool

Additional optional layers:

L4: Pliers
The addition of the pliers would add extra usability while keeping the width to that of an Explorer.

L5: Bit Driver/Bit Holder (Cybertool)

I do not own a Cybertool, so no idea how much width that layer would add. Maybe someone can chime in here.

Thoughts?  :hatsoff:


Instagram: @lordvicalot
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2019, 08:49:20 PM »
Scissors with corkscrew can work but the scissors backspring needs modifying to make space for the corkscrew. I’ve done this on my Telluride and the low profile brass builds I do, but it’s a bit of work. But not enough ‘pocket’ space for the hook on the opener layer.

It would be easier to put the scissors in the middle with the hook, have the metal file replace the blade layer (just needs the corkscrew thinned a little) and switch the awl for the fine screwdriver if desired. This will be a straightforward 3-layer build and easy to add extra layers as needed.
No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2019, 10:00:36 PM »
That sounds good! I was just hesitant with the awl as it has a "blade". Anything else we could put in that spot?

Instagram: @lordvicalot
No Life Club Posts: 3,151
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2019, 02:30:37 AM »
Ok, so let's re-think the layout.

How about this:

L1: Scissors / Corkscrew with mini screwdriver
L2 Metal File/Saw (tip rounded) / small screwdriver
L3: Opener Layer / Hook
Plus Scales

- I did not include the 3D Philips because the only option for the opposing side is the magnifying glass. And a lot of people don't need that. Also the opener layer has a Philips already. Not 3D but still available.
- Layer 1-3 would make for a pretty thin SAK
- I left out the wood saw for several reasons. First this SAK would be more designed toward city/office environment. No real need for a wood saw. Also the teeth are kinda sharp and could be considered a sharp tool or intimidating (Yes, I know  :facepalm:)
- Round off the tip of the metal file so it would not be considered a pointy tool

Additional optional layers:

L4: Pliers
The addition of the pliers would add extra usability while keeping the width to that of an Explorer.

L5: Bit Driver/Bit Holder (Cybertool)

I do not own a Cybertool, so no idea how much width that layer would add. Maybe someone can chime in here.

Thoughts?  :hatsoff:

Instead of the opener layer, you could do like the one Max did above with both openers side-by-side across from the 3D phillips.  Or did I miss a reason this did not work?
No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2019, 05:22:39 AM »
Here you go. If I understand correct (I have no experience modding a SAK) re-profiling the backsprings and all the adjustments necessary it seems to be too much of a hassle to be worth it. It would also increase the width.

Decided to go with the double backspring to accommodate both openers. This of course means you need to use two opener layer backsprings, and they need serious reprofiling, a lot more than I expected.

Switching the can opener to be next to the cap lifter is easy enough. Just a small adjustment to the heel of the backspring so that it closes at the correct angle.

But the Phillips was another story. I first reprofiled the backspring to follow the same shape as the original spring to get the correct closing/opening positions. But it was way too stiff - to a point where I could hardly lift it out the layer.

After lots of head scratching, I figured out that it’s simply a case of having TWO backsprings pressing on the tool, so it literally has twice the force being applied to keep it closed.

So I trimmed down the backsprings (the end that lies under the Phillips) to about half the thickness to reduce their strength. I’ve now got about the right tension on the Phillips, but of course, the openers and back tools are a little weaker.

I don’t think there’s any solution to this, as the tools share the same backsprings, and with 2 tools on one side and 1 on the other, it’s always going to be difficult to get a suitable balance. I’ve got it close, but not quite as I’d like it.


Instagram: @lordvicalot
No Life Club Posts: 3,151
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2019, 05:53:40 AM »
Here you go. If I understand correct (I have no experience modding a SAK) re-profiling the backsprings and all the adjustments necessary it seems to be too much of a hassle to be worth it. It would also increase the width.

Thanks.  I didn’t catch the difficulty with the phillips driver, definitely seems like a lot of effort for what little is gained.
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2019, 12:30:51 PM »
It’s still a great idea, but balancing the tension across 3 tools and 2 backsprings was the problem. Will still finish the build, but will definitely be a one-off.  :cheers:

I think the simpler option (that you originally suggested if I remember correctly) of using the file to replace the blade is the best.  :hatsoff:

No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2019, 03:40:00 PM »
Sounds like a plan  :popcorn:

Instagram: @lordvicalot
No Life Club Posts: 3,151
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2019, 08:46:10 PM »
What is proposed now seems like might be easiest with Mountaineer if had.  Remove blade layer and change backside tools.
No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2019, 08:49:23 PM »
I would like pliers with mine, so I thought about using a SwissChamp.  :think:

Instagram: @lordvicalot
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,816
SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2019, 05:40:41 PM »
File on blade backspring with corkscrew will work... I’ve done it in the past.. I also shared it here in the forums... I think it’s also linked to the stickied Bladeless thread...

My approach was (If i remember this correctly) to use part of the scissor backspring as stopper... to compensate for thickness difference, I used the newer outer liner with half moon indent on the blade pivot side...

On the 2in1 layer, put washers to the left and right side of the phillips to compensate for thickness. Also try bending the springs a little to put tention back to the openers...

Would love to know how this 2in1 layer on 91mm fans out... I know it can be done on 93mm and 84mm frames... But have yet to see one done on a 91mm frame...



:cheers:
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,816
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2019, 05:46:36 PM »
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2019, 07:36:47 PM »
Thanks jaya_man, I’ve got the balance of tension about as good as I can expect by adjustment to the spring thicknesses and bending. Openers line up pretty well and I wanted full sized spacing on the Phillips so filed down the thickness of a couple spare liners and used just the ends, shaped like the short blade spacer to stay orientated.
I flattened the 1/2 moon indent on the outer liner to have the file spring rest area flush. This worked well.
Unfinished project as I need to tidy up my rough work on the inside of the backsprings, need to trim off one of the lanyard rings and I over-thinned the CS pivot so need to redo a new one. :facepalm:
No Life Club Posts: 2,933
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2019, 09:00:19 PM »
Looking good so far!

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2019, 09:04:34 PM »
 :hatsoff:
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,816
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2019, 12:42:01 AM »
+1

Awesome work... :like: :hatsoff:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No Life Club Posts: 3,151
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2019, 01:09:30 AM »
Love seeing the progress and explanations.
No Life Club Posts: 4,568
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2019, 09:58:51 PM »
Thanks jaya_man and 🆘.  :hatsoff:
Stalled a bit these last couple weeks as I’ve had some other priorities (really:) but promise to post completed build when it’s done.  :salute:
No Life Club Posts: 3,710
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2019, 10:17:41 PM »
No stress, Max  :tu: :popcorn:

Instagram: @lordvicalot
No Life Club Posts: 3,151
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2019, 11:41:50 PM »
No stress, Max  :tu: :popcorn:
:agree:  Any support is just out of interest and encourage with an understanding that sometimes life gets in the way of interesting projects.
Jr. Member Posts: 53
Re: SAK for blade-free zones
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2019, 12:13:55 AM »
Crazy cool thread and damn fine "knife" so far Max  :o.

 

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