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"Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.

00 Offline CarbideCruzer

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"Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
on: December 12, 2019, 05:07:37 AM
Similar to most individuals here, we all own multi tools and all have our preferences.  Be it country of origin, design, brand and other factors.   Now I don't think it's possible for a perfect multi tool to exist, as perfection would mean the zenith and I just don't see a one size fits all with multi tools.  That said, for the work and EDC I use this for the now discontinued USA made of global components Gerber MP1 Pro is exceptional.   While the MP400 and MP600 have the greatest ease of use with opening the tool, these do not have a prybar, chisel, gut hook with the knife,  1/4 inch stand alone driver non metallic handles with grip surfaces and a berry compliant sheath. 

Conversely, the MP600 Pro Scout is a great concept as this has scissors, a sheep foot blade, file, u shank jig saw blade adapter and the specialized Phillip driver where you can use other drive sizes is quite great in some respects, but lacks some of the most used components I mentioned earlier.

Curious on other's thoughts.





us Offline Philabuster

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 02:00:06 PM
Curious on other's thoughts.

There is never going to be an ultimate multitool that suits everybody's needs, which is why there are so many varied multitools out there. 

Here's an example of a multitool trying to do everything and at the same time be utterly useless due to ergonomics.  More tools is not always better. 

For me the ultimate multitool was and still is the Leatherman Super Tool 200.  Been carrying one daily since 2001 and have not found a single better tool for me.


spam Offline Happy Gilmore

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 05:14:41 PM
Similar to most individuals here, we all own multi tools and all have our preferences.  Be it country of origin, design, brand and other factors.   Now I don't think it's possible for a perfect multi tool to exist, as perfection would mean the zenith and I just don't see a one size fits all with multi tools.  That said, for the work and EDC I use this for the now discontinued USA made of global components Gerber MP1 Pro is exceptional.   While the MP400 and MP600 have the greatest ease of use with opening the tool, these do not have a prybar, chisel, gut hook with the knife,  1/4 inch stand alone driver non metallic handles with grip surfaces and a berry compliant sheath. 

Conversely, the MP600 Pro Scout is a great concept as this has scissors, a sheep foot blade, file, u shank jig saw blade adapter and the specialized Phillip driver where you can use other drive sizes is quite great in some respects, but lacks some of the most used components I mentioned earlier.

Curious on other's thoughts.

I got my hand on the MP1 as well a little whole ago, and I to was beyond impressed. I particularly appreciated the lack of the “terrible” carbide cutters they keep touting and the length of the needle nose is exceptional. I also found the serrated blade with the hook at the end to be excellent. However....the weakening of the pry tool in order to accommodate a bottle opener irks me to no end. Bottle/can openers don’t belong on actual tools if they impair their primary use.  I’ve also heard the plier head on the MP1 has issues over time.

Cheers,
H.G.


spam Offline comis

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #3 on: December 12, 2019, 06:18:03 PM
I think it all boils down to personal preference, to me, I value good design and functionality, but also tolerance and QC.  Sometimes a tool might not have the best design in the industry, but with great tolerance and QC, at least I could feel the maker has a heart and is striving for excellency.

I don't own the Gerber MP1, so can't comment on the design or the build quality.  But of a dozen Gerber I owned(6 of which are full sized tools), I do have mixed feeling about their design and QC.  I sure hope they have improved over the years, but would be quite hesitant to get another tool from them, unless I could handle one before the purchase.

In comparison, I do like LM's tool design, even their QC has also been sliding over the years, but having said that, LM is still a step ahead of Gerber in that department. 

When it comes to best tolerance and great QC, Victorinox will have my vote.  It is just hard to imagine how they could keep it up for so many decades with such high degree of consistency, and I could really respect that.


no Offline Vidar

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #4 on: December 12, 2019, 11:23:19 PM
The preferences and priorities in multitools are quite subjective, and my "ultimate" certainly also changes with setting and expected tasks.

That said I do have a few general preferences:

1. Any tool on a multitool should actually work as expected. I have a profound dislike for "marketing only" features which are there only too boost feature numbers or tick some box. The last thing I need is to walk around with extra volume and weight only to discover the thing doesn't actually work when needed.

I don't expect the various tools on a multitool to perform at the level of equivalent specialized tools, but I do expect them to work in a proper way. (One can argue that in a pinch even marginally working tools are better than no tool, but to me a marginally working feature shouldn't really be listed as a proper feature. If mentioned it should be some bonus or emergency option).

2. I prefer tools for pocket carry. That limits volume and weight a fair bit.

3. Many manufacturerers aim to "prepare for the unexpected" or aim to be everything for any occasion. For everyday carry though I much prefer tools that focus on the everyday tasks one can expect to encounter, and which through that focus can be rather good at those tasks. (Rather than be mediocre at some common tasks and a whole lot of tasks that never happens).

When it comes to best tolerance and great QC, Victorinox will have my vote.  It is just hard to imagine how they could keep it up for so many decades with such high degree of consistency, and I could really respect that.

+1 to that. Lots of respect for Victorinox!

You can get decent looking copies for a lot less, but when it comes to actual use it becomes painfully obvious that the original well worth the money. (Most of the copies seem worthless, and thus not really cheap at all).
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 05:41:33 PM
Good topic for discussion.

Over the years I have had individual qualifications or "must-have" features, and these have changed with time.

- Needle nose pliers were an initial must-have, so back in the day I picked the LM Supertool over the Gerber something or other (seems to be an old 600).

- sheepfoot serrated blade, and one-hand opening pliers made a Gerber the tool of choice once I found a needlenose version.  Unfortunately, that didn't last long until...

- one-hand opening blades made me switch to LM wave.

- not needing pliers any more, and wanting a small form factor made me switch to SAK. 

In the end, it's become a matter of what I DON'T want on a multitool that seems to point me in one direction or another... and it's steered me away from every plier based MT except Victorinox.  Any more, its the absence of removable bits, replaceable wire cutters, flimsy scissors, or more than about 3 screwdrivers that qualifies a multitool as "ultimate" for me. 

SAKs aside, nothing beats the original LM Wave for me.  If that ever falls apart, I would use my old Gerber 600 to death.  I always feel that I didn't get enough use out of it as I got the Wave pretty soon after.  Then I'd get a warrantee repair on one or both of those and use them to death again.  If they couldn't repair it for whatever reason, I'd get a Swisstool Spirit



00 Offline CarbideCruzer

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 02:42:47 AM
Quote
There is never going to be an ultimate multitool that suits everybody's needs, which is why there are so many varied multitools out there.
 

Agreed, hence why I and a vast majority of people here I imagine own many different multi tools from various brands as well.  I've indicated that in my first post as well. 

I got my hand on the MP1 as well a little whole ago, and I to was beyond impressed. I particularly appreciated the lack of the “terrible” carbide cutters they keep touting and the length of the needle nose is exceptional. I also found the serrated blade with the hook at the end to be excellent. However....the weakening of the pry tool in order to accommodate a bottle opener irks me to no end. Bottle/can openers don’t belong on actual tools if they impair their primary use.  I’ve also heard the plier head on the MP1 has issues over time.

Cheers,
H.G.

Compared to every other multi tool I've owned and used for the applications I use this for on a daily basis, the Gerber Multi Plier Maintenance Pro is truly exceptional.  After speaking to two separate Gerber representatives and their site confirms this, the MP1 series has been discontinued as of 2019.  My experience with the Gerber carbide cutters hasn't been that positive I digress.   Agreed, the gut hook portion of the knife has truly been the difference of being able to get the work done successfully and or "chance it". 

I've used this prybar to break down a wooden pallet and I personally haven't found any weakness per say.   Sure I wish this didn't have a can opener aspect, but this pry bar is best variation of dedicated pry bar's I've used with any multi tool.  Bear and Son with their Red Devil Painter's tool would be best...Had this had any locking mechanism at all.    As for the plier head, I can see problems down the road, yet I am careful with usage.  Considering this is discontinued, I make sure not to intentionally over tax this unit. 


I think it all boils down to personal preference, to me, I value good design and functionality, but also tolerance and QC.  Sometimes a tool might not have the best design in the industry, but with great tolerance and QC, at least I could feel the maker has a heart and is striving for excellency.

I don't own the Gerber MP1, so can't comment on the design or the build quality.  But of a dozen Gerber I owned(6 of which are full sized tools), I do have mixed feeling about their design and QC.  I sure hope they have improved over the years, but would be quite hesitant to get another tool from them, unless I could handle one before the purchase.

In comparison, I do like LM's tool design, even their QC has also been sliding over the years, but having said that, LM is still a step ahead of Gerber in that department. 

When it comes to best tolerance and great QC, Victorinox will have my vote.  It is just hard to imagine how they could keep it up for so many decades with such high degree of consistency, and I could really respect that.

With me, country of origin does factor in mind and usability is also a factor.  Non replaceable jaws a important aspect, if not a deal breaker in some respects.   Less is sometimes more and more is sometimes better, case by case I suppose.

Gerber MP1 MP has served me quite well.  As of right now, one can still find this factory sealed at a reasonable prices and it's worth the upgrade to have a Berry compliant sheath.  If anyone is on the fence and can justify this, better to get this at brand new prices from several online merchants, rather than pay "eBay prices".   In my experience, the China made Gerber multi tools i.e. the Flik, Grappler aren't that great quality wise.  Yet  in my experience with the modern and older USA made and USA made with global component variations be it MP400, MP450, MP600 etc tend to be great. 

You get what you pay for with the cheaper Gerber products generally.  While I do think the Leatherman Crunch is certainly the best locking multi tool and I do think the release for the inner components is nearly as good as the Saf-T lock with Gerber, I am not the biggest fan of Leatherman fan  be honest.   Glad they made the Free P2 and P4 is made in USA, but I am skeptical about anything magnetic as magnetic items tend to attract debris. 

I've never owned any Victoriox so I cannot speak for anything with that brand. 





il Offline pomsbz

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #7 on: December 16, 2019, 05:39:23 AM
If the LM Skeletool was made tougher (build and pliers), with a FFG blade and fold out scissors from the top it would be very very close to my ultimate pliers/full size multitool.

I don't want a do it all solution because it's carrying a lot of weight and a lot of compromise constantly on my belt when I'm only using a fraction of the capability most of the time. That's why I've standardised on 3 tools. A Rambler on my keychain, a Spartan on my belt and the LM Charge in my bag. As such ultimate is dependant, is it ultimate keychain tool, pocket tool or bag tool?
"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson


us Offline Sos24

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"Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #8 on: December 16, 2019, 10:49:37 AM
The SwissTool Spirit XC (serrated butter blade) is the closest I’ve found to my ultimate multitool. 

What separates it?
- Ability to access the tool you want without opening other tools.  All the tools on the Spirit can be accessed from the outside and the layout of the nail nicks makes it easy to only open the tool you want.  Other tools I’ve tried required opening the plier handles to access tools or open multiple tools to access the one I wanted.
- Good balance of tools, size weight.  I find that the tools that I want are on the Spirit without a lot of extras that add weight.  If a tool is too heavy or large then I don’t want it in my pocket and then it isn’t as useful.  The Spirit meets a nice balance.
- I absolutely love the utility and versatility of the chisel tool and find myself wishing other tools and SAKs had something similar.
- I really like the lock released being on the side and lower profile as compared to some other tools
- The ergonomics is very nice and comfortable

The Spirit could be even better if the scissors were as nice as the 91mm SAKs, it had both a plain and serrated blade, and one side of the file was a diamond file. With these changes, it might be perfection.  Even without these changes it is still the best I’ve tried.


spam Offline comis

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #9 on: December 17, 2019, 05:04:46 AM
The SwissTool Spirit XC (serrated butter blade) is the closest I’ve found to my ultimate multitool. 

What separates it?
- Ability to access the tool you want without opening other tools.  All the tools on the Spirit can be accessed from the outside and the layout of the nail nicks makes it easy to only open the tool you want.  Other tools I’ve tried required opening the plier handles to access tools or open multiple tools to access the one I wanted.
- Good balance of tools, size weight.  I find that the tools that I want are on the Spirit without a lot of extras that add weight.  If a tool is too heavy or large then I don’t want it in my pocket and then it isn’t as useful.  The Spirit meets a nice balance.
- I absolutely love the utility and versatility of the chisel tool and find myself wishing other tools and SAKs had something similar.
- I really like the lock released being on the side and lower profile as compared to some other tools
- The ergonomics is very nice and comfortable

The Spirit could be even better if the scissors were as nice as the 91mm SAKs, it had both a plain and serrated blade, and one side of the file was a diamond file. With these changes, it might be perfection.  Even without these changes it is still the best I’ve tried.

If I have to pick one favorite, I too would think Spirit X will be my 'ultimate' plier-based MT too.

Being one of the lightest MT in the market, yet still offering full size tools, I think it is hard to find a better tool with such great ergo and excellent tolerance.  If they just have the 91mm scissors, as SOS24 said, and with OHO blade, that will my be-all-end-all MT.


us Offline ElevenBlade

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Re: "Ultimate" multi tool and the qualifications for this.
Reply #10 on: January 11, 2020, 03:51:36 PM
The questions that keep me up in the night  :think:

I suppose - part of what matters is location... location... location.  Both where you're going to use it, and how you're going to carry it. 

If it was going to be the ideal EDC, that's one thing... and I've outlined what I think works for me, so I won't belabor that point. 

But what if like pomsbz... and indeed, like myself... the pliers based MT stays in the bag?  What if it's only being used for deliberate tasks and not being pulled out of the pocket like second-nature?  Any more, that's how I use it - it comes out of the bag when I need it, like my spork, or my toothbrush, or my pliers.  ;)

In that case - the qualifications for my Ultimate Multitool might be...

- pliers with integrated/unreplaceable cutters... maybe it's just my bias and preferred aesthetic. I've had no problems with my Original Wave... I wonder if replaceable cutters are a solution to a problem that most people didn't have.  (knowing that coat hangers are harder than you think.. and other pearls of wisdom)

- a partially or fully serrated sheepfoot or Wharncliffe blade :sa: my Original Wave and Gerber MP600 both have one, and they get used for deliberate serration related tasks.

- a good can opener, because yes... that happened to me multiple times.

- Phillips driver

- Saw... because I use it a lot, but its the one thing that I have to really plan to have with me separately from my EDC

What I don't want - scissors (I already have that on my EDC), File (because I never need one), small/eyeglass screwdriver (already EDC it)

Did I just describe the Leatherman Signal?

 :assimilate:


 

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