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Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone? 3948

No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2020, 08:40:01 PM »
Hey
I never said that I wouldn't buy a couple! :gimme:

 :D

We will see. Unless the cost can come down I think there will be very few made of these indeed. Anyway, even these days one should be able to make some progress so hopefully I can show a physical version here in a month or two.

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2020, 03:56:07 AM »
So, first physical versions in hardened stainless steel. The one on the bottom is the cross driver - it actually works better than I thought on surface screws. The risk of getting cut on the flat drivers seems less than I imagined. Or I might just haven been lucky.  :D

In the lower middle is the new keychain version. A fair bit bigger than the cross driver but still quite small.

The drivers have longer reach than typical screwdriver bits, and the body itself about the same size as a bit holder. Each driver opens up and locks along the centerline of the tool body. For more torque the drivers on the opposite side can be folded out to the side and used for leverage. Nice rounded corners and quite pocket and keychain friendly.

For keychain use the concept is a little harness that is permanently connected to the keychain, and from which the tool itself can easily be disconnected from. So one doesn't have to mess around with an entire keychain when one wants use it.

(It still needs to get the rivets on. I'm on the fence about polishing it? The locks are clunky without polished surfaces, but then again the slightly rough surface is actually nice to grip.)

It's been a fun one at least.  :)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 04:05:09 AM by Vidar »

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,444
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2020, 08:21:56 AM »
They have turned out really well Vidar  :like:

It’s still difficult to grasp just how small these are. I know you have them shown next to SAKs and other tools, but maybe a comparison to a matchbox will also help. These tools are really tiny!

My preference is the folding tool.  :tu:

Education is a journey that starts when you realize that knowing a little about something opens the door to the universe.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,093 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2020, 09:26:20 AM »
Both of them are sweet. :drool:
I think I prefer the cross driver over the folding one because of budget concerns. :ahhh
But I can see the usefulness of the folding one.

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2020, 12:34:59 PM »
They have turned out really well Vidar  :like:

It’s still difficult to grasp just how small these are. I know you have them shown next to SAKs and other tools, but maybe a comparison to a matchbox will also help. These tools are really tiny!

My preference is the folding tool.  :tu:

Thank you! :tu: I think they would look better polished, but the grip would be worse off. Maybe some middle ground. Either way, these are just for proof of concept and adjusting tolerances so not sure how much I'll put into looks at this point.

I thought about matchboxes, but my matchboxes around here were different sizes. :think: So I figured not a good reference? Either way the folding one is 35 mm long, while the cross one is 19mm. Next time I'll put them next to a ruler..  :facepalm:

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2020, 12:56:44 PM »
Both of them are sweet. :drool:
I think I prefer the cross driver over the folding one because of budget concerns. :ahhh
But I can see the usefulness of the folding one.

They are both silly expensive for what they are!  :D  :ahhh Then again functionality is far from everything.

The folding one is clearly the winner for usefulness. The drivers having reach, torque and being at the centerline do make a difference.




"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,648
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2020, 05:41:59 PM »
And maybe one can open the opposite driver to 90 degrees for extra torque?
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2020, 09:18:57 PM »
And maybe one can open the opposite driver to 90 degrees for extra torque?

Yes, that is part of the concept.

I put in some temporary rivets to check how it works and the opening closing mechanisms are fine. Yay!  :tu:

Here are some more picture with more scale items, a picture with the tiny flat driver active, and one showing the reach.




"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,648
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2020, 09:20:07 PM »
That's eenyweeny :D
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2020, 09:31:50 PM »
That's eenyweeny :D

For those everyday small problems.  :D

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,648
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2020, 09:34:01 PM »
Eenyweeny problems :rofl:
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2020, 09:42:21 PM »
Eenyweeny problems :rofl:

 :D

Those with big real problems probably don't look on weird screwdrivers anyway. :think:

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 15,093 Yoo-hoo, big summer blowout!
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2020, 10:48:56 PM »
Brilliant-looking!

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Admin Team Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,227 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2020, 01:00:29 PM »

'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2020, 01:28:17 PM »
Thanks!

It is actually kind of cute. Then again I think the same about my excavator so I might be damaged goods.

The mechanisms to keep the drivers folded in when not in use works, and the locks work too. The springs I got for the locks are on the weak side though. I need to get or make some stronger ones for a proper snappy feel.

In the meantime I'll give it some pocket time, and maybe do the keychain harness for it.

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,744
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2020, 02:13:16 PM »

Formerly known as MTMatt
No Life Club Posts: 1,128
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2020, 12:46:40 AM »
Just a suggestion:  make the centre hole a 1/4" hex so it could be used as a bit driver as well (might as well add more functionality)
Thank exactly what I was itching to write

Dream. Wish. Leave nothing undone. Repeat.
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2020, 01:42:23 AM »
Thank exactly what I was itching to write

It is still way too small for that. :) With a hole for a 1/4" hex in the middle there would be next to no middle left.

In general my design thinking is that if some feature is added it has to work properly. There are too many tools around aiming to do all kinds of stuff and ending up doing very few properly. I'd rather focus on fewer features but have them working well. I do get that for many multitools have a long list of "functions" is a major selling point, but I'd like to focus on actual use and the end user.

Adding features usually add costs as well so that has to be justified too. (This one in particular though is more of a fun project so I've already utterly disregarded all cost considerations and design for assembly practices ::) I even considered making the main body of the larger one in titanium :D).

« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 01:53:15 AM by Vidar »

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,266 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2020, 06:54:39 PM »

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,266 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2020, 06:59:35 PM »
Thank you! :tu: I think they would look better polished, but the grip would be worse off. Maybe some middle ground. Either way, these are just for proof of concept and adjusting tolerances so not sure how much I'll put into looks at this point.

I thought about matchboxes, but my matchboxes around here were different sizes. :think: So I figured not a good reference? Either way the folding one is 35 mm long, while the cross one is 19mm. Next time I'll put them next to a ruler..  :facepalm:

Like the folding one. I'd go for the rough / stonewashed look. It's perfect to be carried in a keychain. Being polished, it would get scratched in no time and end up looking bad.

 :cheers: :salute:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2020, 12:57:39 AM »
Like the folding one. I'd go for the rough / stonewashed look. It's perfect to be carried in a keychain. Being polished, it would get scratched in no time and end up looking bad.

 :cheers: :salute:

I have to admit the current look, being fairly close to stonewashed, is growing on me. I've been carrying it in pockets for a while now, but it really needs a keychain just to keep track of it. I'm thinking of maybe doing the keychain connector to match the pins. Maybe some bronze. Or alternatively a stainless steel similar to the main color.

It might do fine polished as well as it hardened steel throughout. Softer things like keys, coin and such should not be a problem with regards to skratching. That said the hardness of this one is softer than it ought to be for a long life of screwdriving, so that needs improving if I'm ever to make more of these.

Functionality is actually good. It works pretty much as a stubby screw driver, so it is easy to keep pressure down while turning. I got lucky there!  :D

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,734
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2020, 03:50:28 PM »
That folding one is really neat!  :like:
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,856
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2020, 05:21:36 PM »
They are both silly expensive for what they are!  :D  :ahhh Then again functionality is far from everything.

The folding one is clearly the winner for usefulness. The drivers having reach, torque and being at the centerline do make a difference.
You called? I want one of those folding drivers :gimme:

That concept I like a lot. Just for comparison, maybe have a look at Big Idea Design prices... expensive is the right price for EDC gear :rofl:

Emergency Kit: Ovo Sport, chocolate, cheese, crispbread and a coin
No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2020, 10:05:39 PM »
I do think if it can come down to their price levels it would be marketable. Still some way to go to get there. There was just no concern about costs when I made this. Just getting the springs for the locking mechanisms in place is quite the trick.

To some extent this one is to me as I suspect avant garde is for fashion designers - made more for the process itself and where it can lead to later rather than a marketable end product. I picked up quite a few tricks with the locks and springs making this one, and I can certainly see those be used elsewhere too later.

I could have this factory made within a few weeks, but the costs as of now just doesn't make sense. The costs are coming down though. We'll see where it goes eventually, but hopefully I have the more serious EDC designs ready well before then.  :cheers:

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 20,266 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2020, 05:01:34 PM »
I do think if it can come down to their price levels it would be marketable. Still some way to go to get there. There was just no concern about costs when I made this. Just getting the springs for the locking mechanisms in place is quite the trick.

To some extent this one is to me as I suspect avant garde is for fashion designers - made more for the process itself and where it can lead to later rather than a marketable end product. I picked up quite a few tricks with the locks and springs making this one, and I can certainly see those be used elsewhere too later.

I could have this factory made within a few weeks, but the costs as of now just doesn't make sense. The costs are coming down though. We'll see where it goes eventually, but hopefully I have the more serious EDC designs ready well before then.  :cheers:

Have you thought about size variations? Slightly bigger tool, stronger, longer reach, more torque...

Would this make the cost change in the same degree? Increase in 10% size of tools = ??% in production cost?

 :think: :think:

________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT

No Life Club Posts: 1,598
Re: Tiny tiny screwdriver with 4 heads - anyone?
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2020, 11:08:06 PM »
Have you thought about size variations? Slightly bigger tool, stronger, longer reach, more torque...

Would this make the cost change in the same degree? Increase in 10% size of tools = ??% in production cost?

 :think: :think:

This was intended as a keychain so I haven't really considered other sizes. The size, weight and gadget factor is one the drivers for this one. Once you go up a bit in size entirely other design routes makes more sense I think, and can be made for a lot less. The screwdriver head standards don't scale at all so there is that factor too.

As for costs it is an aggregate of many factors. Some of these are quite exponential (part volume^3), some depend on surface area and complexity, while other operations are almost the same regardless of size in these ranges (assembly, packing, some handling), while yet others are quite linear (weight/ material use). Key factors are also production volume overall and to the extent one makes specialized solutions/ fixtures/ jigs - basically the extent of investing up front to achieve lower unit costs later.

If I were to spend more time on it I could likely cut a fair bit of the costs. It would still be silly expensive though. (Consider that as a quick rule of thumb the prices the consumer ends up paying are usually 4 to 8 times higher than the production cost. The multiplier might even be higher for products with some unique position due to patents or marketing. So if production cost is high to start with compared to similar offers, that difference will be seriously increased by the time it is on the market.

(I often find myself looking as some product prices, divide by 4 to 8, and just be impressed how mass production can make certain objects for so low costs!)

Another key issue for me with this design is that as of now the screwdriver heads can't be made as hard as the ISO specifications call for. That is just unacceptable for me - things should work as good or better as the buyer has reason to expect. I do think that particular issue will be solved in due time though. 

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).

 

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