Chronology of developments and changes of the Victorinox and Wenger

[jnoxyd]

Hello friends collectors! I am sure you all know this wonderful book and I was pleased to know recently that Mike was going to release a second edition. 

I asked him if some annoying inaccuracies in his Chronology of improvements and changes would be corrected and Mike replied: "If you would tell me corrections I would be grateful. I don't liike saying anything that is wrong - most especially in long-lasting print  . " 
At first I wanted to limit myself to my favorite dates: 1973 for 4 spiral corkscrews (instead of the erroneous 1983 in his Chronology) and 1957 for hidden rivets and the Victoria Officier Suisse crossbow stamp (instead of 1961 and 1968 in the Chronology).  However, I thought it would be better to ask you too: what dates and texts need to be corrected?  I suggest creating a list of date corrections in chronological order using the original author text. Add comments to the text with *
Here's original text (hope my phone did his work good )

Here is a chronology of developments and changes of the Victorinox and Wenger Swiss Army Knives:

1884 - founding of Victorinox company in Ibach, Schwyz (Karl Elsener Messer-Fabrik)
1891 - the first truly Swiss Soldier's Knife, the Model 1890 (Elsener)
1893-founding of Wenger company in Courtetelle, Jura (Boechat & Compagnie)
1897 - Karl Elsener invents the Officer's Knife
1898 - Theodore Wenger named director of Boechat/ Fabrique Suisse de Coutellerie (Coutellerie Suisse)
1900 - Wenger builds a new factory in Delémont
1901 - fiber rather than wood scales now on the Soldier
1901 - Coutellerie Suisse (Wenger) makes knives for the Swiss army
1902 - new models based on Officer design - wood saw, scissors, bail, tweezers, and toothpick (E)
1902 - Karl Elsener patents a type of folding knife whose 1-piece metal handle is also the back-spring
1903 (or before) - Swiss cross & shield on handle of Officer (E)
1905 - Wenger begins making an Officer's type knife
1907 - Fabrique Suisse de Coutellerie renamed Wenger & Co, now owned by Theo Wenger
1908 - new, lighter Soldier Model 1908, with fiber scales (E &W)
1908 ? - issued Soldier knives have Swiss cross stamp on scale
1909 or before - Officer line now 3 pins visible instead of 4 (E)
1909 - Swiss cross on shield officially adopted for the Officer line (E)
1909 - VICTORIA becomes trademark of Elsener's cutlery company
1910 circa - screwdriver has cap lifter (W)
1910 - Theo's wife Lisa names Tahara line (W)
1911 - the Elsener cutlery adds a workshop on Schutzenstrasse
1913 circa - WENGER first used as tang stamp (W)
1913 - VICTORIA on a scroll first used as tang stamp (E)
1915 ? - issued Soldier knives have WK stamp on scale
1916 - privately-purchased Soldier knives now to have a P stamp
1918 - Karl Elsener dies, sons Carl & Alois take over
1919 - stainless steel on the model #112 (W).
1921 - Victorinox now makes Officer's knife with stainless steel
1921 - Victoria + Inox = VICTORINOX (as tang stamp in 1931)
1921 - year of manufacture now stamped on blade of Soldier
1923 - tang stamp VICTORIA on scroll over JNOXYD (V)
1926 - some stainless Soldier models made for export, with special stamp
1928 - Theo Wenger dies and Kaspar Oertli takes over
1931 - crossbow with VICTORIA or VICTORINOX or JNOXYD on banner W-K tang stamp (V)
      Page 133

1931 - Brown Boveri sets up world's first all-electric steel-hardening plant, at Victorinox factory in Ibach
1932 or earlier - ARMÉE SUISSE on some until 1949 (V)
1934 - 2-story workshop added to house/factory (V)
1930s - nickel-silver replaces brass for liners and dividers on Officer's knives (V)
1936 or before - cap lifter on screwdriver (V)
1936 ? - Wenger uses celluloid for Officer scales
1937 - celluloid replaces fiber for scales on Officer line (V)
1937 - Forschner begins importing Victorinox butcher knives to USA
1937 (or '38 or '39) - Soldier Knife now made of stainless steel
1938 - cellulose acetate butyrate invented (Tennessee Eastman Corp.)
1941 - VICTORIA SWITZERLAND STAINLESS tang stamp (V)
1942 ? until 1960 - WENGERINOX on tang of blade (W)
1942 - thin nail file/cleaner on back (V)
1943 - new Victorinox factory built
1943 - VICTORIA or VICTORINOX or INOXYD in front of crossbow on tang of some (V)
1944 or later - cellulose acetate butyrate replaces celluloid for scales (V)
194? - Tenite (CAB) used by Wenger for scales (1970?)
1946 - new metal-hardening and grinding shop (V)
1946 - double-hook can opener w/ dished right side (patent
1947 - Kaspar Oertli dies, son Max takes over Wenger company
195 - clasping loop replaces pinned bail (W) (1970?)
1950 - Carl Elsener dies, wife Elise and sons Carl III and Eduard take ove
1950 ca - wood saw no longer has nail-nick (V) (1967?)
1950s - new style small-head toothpick and tweezers (W)
1951 - smaller, lighter Soldier of stainless steel, with scraper arc added te screwdriver (W & V) (Wenger in 1950?)
1951 - arc-style can opener (Swiss patent 1953 V)
1951 - alox replaces nickel-silver for liners and dividers (V)
1951 - wire bender/stripper notch added to cap lifter/driver (V) (W?)
1951? - scraper arc added to screwdriver/cap lifter of Officer's Knife (V
1952 - Cellídor (cellulose acetate butyrate) and Grilon (nylon type € patented
1952 - introduction of fish-scaler, metal saw, and forged back-side Phillips screwdriver (squared shank w/file) (V)
1952 - VICTORIA JNOX tang stamp on some knives (V)
1954 - Soldier now has bushings on wide-end rivet-pin
1955 - Classic model introduced (US patent 2718695 V) (1935?)
1957 thru '64 - red plastic grilon scales on some Soldiers (W)
1957 - Pioneer with alox scales introduced (V)
1957 - tweezer-end now aluminum (previously nickel-silver) (V)
1957 to 1978 - Elinox line: with inlaid curved-triangle "federal" shield
     Page 134

and cross on scale, with crossbow and ELINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS ROSTFREI on tang; printed federal shield and cross on later knives (V)
1960 - magnifying glass (W)
196 - S-ring through divider replaces clasp-loop (W)
1961 - rivets now hidden under scales
1961 ? - reamer with blade edge replaces simple quarter-round leather punch (V)
1961 - formerly optional bail now standard (V)
1961 - new design for Soldier, with red alox scales, cap lifter (pauses at 90 degrees), and Victorinox-style (arc) can opener
1962 or earlier - rivet-pins hidden under scales, scales pressed onto the pins (W) (1950?)
196 - rectangular punch replaces quarter-round punch (W)
1963 - Z-shaped can opener (Swiss patents 1963, 1964 W)
1963 - Swibo line of butcher's knives (W)
1963 - garden shears w/ spring on jaws (Swiss patent V)
1965 - new red rounded-square shield w/ white Swiss cross on scale (W)
1965 - silver-color alox handles on Soldier
1965 - flat phillips screwdriver (W) (1970?)
1968 to 1974 - VICTORIA OFFICIER SUISSE on crossbow for tang stamp on back of large blade (V)
1968 - lanyard attachment ring on filler next to small blade replaces bail -- transition (usually 1 year) takes to mid-70s (V)
196 - lanyard ring and/or chain replaces S-ring (W)
1969 - new 5-story factory (V)
1969 or later - scissor spring changed from blued to stainless steel (V)
1969 - sharp wirestripper removed from cap-lifter/screwdriver (V)
1969 - file no longer on side of phillips screwdriver (V) same year? - slot (can key) added to end of phillips driver (V)
1970 - Wenger factory enlarged
1971 - Cellídor by brand name first used for scales (says Robert Elsener, V)
1972 or earlier - ruler added to fish-scaler (V) (1975?)
1972 - half-round tip on metal saw changed to tapered (and now not thicker on the teeth edge than on the back edge) (V)
1972 - Forschner becomes exclusive Vic distributor in US
1972 - WK stamp on Soldier rotated 90°
1973 - small spear blade replaces small clip blade (V)
1973 - PAT no longer on can opener (20-year patent expires V
1973 - original Officer model, with toothpick and tweezers added, now called Spartan (V)
1973 - magnifying glass and front-side phillips driver (V)
1973 - scissors operated by back spring (patent 1975 W)
Page 135


1973 - "spark erosion" process (stippled) rather than cut filing surface small files (W)
1974 - special run of Fisherman with blue scales (V)
1974 - last year of VICTORIA tang stamp after
1974 - line guide added to fish scaler (W) (1960?)
1975 - closed scissors have open rather than filled profile, w/double- rather than single-leaf spring (V)
1975 - small file now has stippled (spark erosion) not cut surface (V)
1975 - ski wax scraper (W)
1975 or later - double-hook instead of Z-shape can opener (W)
1976 - Victorinox begins supplying knives to German Army
1977 - fine screwdriver on back of large Officer models (V)
1977 - first colors other than red for plastic scales: black, black and red. olive green, imitation mother-of-pearl, and “Schildpatt." (V)
1978 - plastic head on tweezers instead of metal (V)
1978 - Soldier now has a red shield with a white cross, w/WK stamp on hollow-rivet end
1978 - NASA orders Master Craftsman for Space Shuttle (V)
1978 - larger eyelet for scissor-spring, and larger scissor screw (V)
1979 - new Wenger factory
1980 - new Victorinox factory and office building
1980 - insignia inlay changed from nickel-silver to stainless steel (inox) (V)
1980 - phillips driver now round, not forged (still w/ tin-opener slot) (V)
1980 - Ecoline: ECONOMY on tang and printed federal shield (V) ('75?)
1980 - universal wrench (W)
1980 ca - locking blade on one model of Executive (W)
1981 - "fluted" (grooved) corkscrew now smooth (V)
1981 - Wenger starts offering a lifetime guarantee on their knives
1982 - locking main blade for Officer's knife (Packlock - patent W)
1982 ca - scales now secured to liner-brackets (W)
1982 - combination tool (can and bottle opener), for 84 mm models (V)
1983 - mini-screwdriver (Swiss patent 1986 V)
1983 - number of coils on corkscrew reduced from 5 to 4 (V (& W?))
1984 - pressure-lock for large screwdriver and front phillips driver (Swiss patent 1986 W)
1984 - left-handed models introduced (W)
1984 - V of VICTORINOX tang stamp now larger than other letters
1985 - combination opener (W)
1985 - chisel; ballpoint pen; new shape and smaller tip on fine driver (V)
1985 - sewing eye added to punch/reamer (V)
1985 ? - flat base rather than rounded on cap lifter/ screwdriver and front-side phillips, to stop at 9o degrees (V)
1986 - pliers (2.7 mm thick w/ flat hinge) and SwissChamp introduced (V)
Page 136

1986 - combination tool now on 91 mm models (V)
1986- compass w/ ruler ("orienteering tool") (W)
1986- fish scaler (“magnetic hook disgorger") no longer magnetized (V)
1986 - adjustable pliers (W)
1986 - September 16, Wenger's manufacturing plant burns down; rebuilt
1987 - last year for WK stamp on Soldiers (V & W)
1987 - camouflage handles (V)
1987 - screwdriver tip available on Classic's nail file (Classic SD) (V)
1988 - watches (W 1990?)
1988 - pliers now 3.2 mm thick, w/ round hinge, small grooves added to jaws (V)
1988 - bolt-type blade lock for 111 mm models (Swiss patent V)
1989 - wedge-operated liner lock for 120 mm models (Swiss patent W)
1989 - watches introduced to the US (V)
1990 - serrated blade on some models (W)
1990 - wood saw made longer, new teeth, & w/o nail nick (W)
1990 - analog watch in handle (SwissTimer, TimeKeeper) (V)
1990 - cup added to end of scissor-spring, and groove in arm (V)
1991 - Wenger makes folders for Buck Knives
1991 - multi-purpose hook (parcel hook); straight pin; scissors now have rivet rathe han screw (V)
1991 - hole for lanyard ring on large models changed from filler near corkscrew to end of spring near reamer (V)
1991 - slanted hinge of pliers now vertical (V)
1992 - golf blade, spatula (V)
1992 - round phillips driver no longer slotted (V)
1992 - Wenger onboard the Space Shuttle
1992 - push-button blade-lock on 120 mm models (patent W)
1993 - serrated blade on some models (V)
1993 - stylized open ("flying") W now on tang of main blade (W)
1993 - Soldier now has thinner cap lifter w/ wire-stripping notch, and solid rivet
1993 - Signature Classic series with removable pen (V)
1993 - SAKS first sold in China (V)
199 - smaller lanyard hole on small knives (V)
1994 - European Patent for liner-locking 111 mm models (V)
1994 - matte nylon (grilon?) scales on EcoLine (V)
1995 - crimper added to pliers (V)
1995 - translucent scales in colors (W, licensed from V)
1995 thru 1999 - Snife scales (W)
1996 - SwissGrip pliers knife introduced (US patent 1998 W)
1996 - special edition knife for Tiffany (W)
1997 - SwissCard (V)
1997 - ISO - 9001 certification (W)
Page 137

1998 - SwissTool; (LED) SwissLite (Marlboro Illuminator) and Midnite Manager (V)
1998 - wire stripper notch added to cap lifter on 58mm (V)
1998 - nail file added to multi-purpose hook on some models (V)
1998 - Wenger patents scissor-style cigar cutter (Maurice Cachot, W)
1998 - PocketGrip (MiniGrip) pliers knife (European patent 2003 W)
1999 - colored translucent scales show name inside against tweezers (Swiss patent granted 2004 V)
1999 - Signature II series with attached slide-out pen (V)
1999 - bit wrench and bit case (V)
1999 - GolfTool, AutoTool, and SportRatchet (“Lifestyle tools") (V)
1999 - Travel Gear luggage line (V)
1999 - watch factory established in Bonfol (V)
2000 - Victorinox Foundation established - owns 90% of stock, Elsener family 10%
2000 - CyberTool and Altimeter, and a Lifestyle tool: BriefcaseTool (V)
2000 - Whistle Classic (V)
2000 - thin back-side nail file and cleaner "removed from catalogues" (V)
2000 - Spot Light LED (W)
2000 - Porsche design with ruthenium metal scales (W)
2000 - scissors jaws now have single-bevel rather than double bevel (W)
2000 ca - location of Pat on minidriver changed (V)
2001 - Voyager model with digital watch and short tweezers; pen, in new thicker scales, for some 91 mm models (V)
2001 - Clothing line in North America (V)
2002 - Victorinox is sole shareholder of Swiss Army Brands Inc.
2002 - Large white LED module (Swiss patent 2008) opposite (shorter) front-side phillips to make Voyager Lite and Huntsman Lite (V)
2002 - SwissFlame with piezo lighter (discontinued 2005)
2002 - Swiss Business tool (W)
2003 - bags and luggage (W)
2003 - 1st Annual Patagonia (human-powered) Race, sponsored by Wenger
2003 - SwissCard Lite (V) 2003 - Stay Glow (fluorescent) scales (V)
2003 - last year for tweezers (metal-tipped) in special-handle Swiss Champs; after this special-handles have no T & T (V)
2004 - blade shank reduced from 2.4 to 2.o mm (V)
2004 - SwissMemory USB device (patent 2006 V)
2004 - magnifier changed from glass in gray frame to all plastic (V)
2005 circa - cap-lifter/large screwdriver back-square recessed for greater closing resistance (V)
2005 - front tang stamp on large blade changed to VICTORINOX SWISS MADE STAINLESS, crossbow and cross no longer above
Page 138

OFFICIER SUISSE on back (V)
2005 - "Traveller electronics": altimeter and barometer added to digital clock (V)
2005 - CyberTool Lite; SwissTool Spirit (V)
2005 - large file now single-cut - "stainless, ground" (V)
2005 - Pat no longer on minidriver (V)
2005 - Evolution (EVO) line: curving scales (W)
2005 - Victorinox acquires the Wenger company
2005 - Victorinox applies for trademark for the red of their SAK scales
2005 to 2008 - merger “hybrid" Wenger/Victorinox model: Vic-style tools (combi-cap lifter, T & T, and blade) and 84 mm scales with Wenger emblem, tang stamped Wenger Delemont Switzerland Stainless, Officier Suisse
2006 - Braille watch; Nail Clip SAK (W)
2006 - the Giant, w/ 85 implements, to commemorate 100 yrs making SAKS (W)
2006 - the SwissChamp XAVT (V)
2006 - watch factory relocated to Porrentruy (V)
2007 - Carl Elsener IV takes over as CEO from his father Carl III (V)
2007 - Swiss Army Fragrances (V - had been a Wenger line)
2007 - Rescue Tool is IWA Knife of the Year (V)
2007 - Signature Laser, SwissMemory Laser Pointer (V)
2007 - EvoGrip - rubber panels on Evo scales (W)
2007 - Giant 87 - telescoping pointer dropped, nail clipper added (W)
2008 - trademark registered: shade of red RAL wavelength 3003 (V; 1994?)
2008 - Giant 87 in Guinness Book of World Records (W)
2008 - new model Soldier's Knife, the model o8; to be issued in 2009 (V)
2008 - EvoGrip pliant scales (Swiss patent W)
2009 - Date no longer on "civilian" Soldier (V - Soldier, W - Standard)
2009 - 125th anniversary series by Victorinox
2009 - 1st American ski expedition to the North Pole, sponsored by Victorinox
2009 - minidriver hexagonal plastic rather than round, and shorter (V)
2009 - Héritage receives International Knife Award at IWA fair (W)
2010 - SAK w/ remote garage-door opener; 32 GB Classic w/ data en- cryption and fingerprint authentication (V)
2011 - Slim and Tomo lines (V)
2011 - Titanium line for climbers (W)
Page 139

[jnoxyd]

List of corrections
1957 - rivets now hidden under scales
1957 to 1973 - VICTORIA OFFICIER SUISSE on crossbow for tang stamp on back of large blade (V)
1961 - new design for Soldier, with red alox scales, cap lifter (pauses at 90 degrees), and Victorinox-style (arc) can opener.
*First years production:1962 (V) and 1963 (W)
1973 - number of coils on corkscrew reduced from 5 to 4 (V)

Some pics for illustration:
Hidden rivets in 1957


4 loop corckscrew on 1973 Champion

[elsinox]

uhh… I don`t know where to begin :-)

I think here we speak only about officer knives. And there, you should differentiate between 84 and 91 mm. Because not all the changed happed the same time. So I think it would be better to just focus on one size, say the 91 mm. That would be much easier and I think more helpful for collectors.

What surprised me is the Victorinox already produced knives from Stainless steel in 1921? and wenger before? Because what I Always thought is that the "Stainless" steel was invented in 1921, and Victorinox was able to use it for their knives in 1923, not before. But possibly I`m wrong.

[xfile]

List of corrections
1957 - rivets now hidden under scales
1957 to 1973 - VICTORIA OFFICIER SUISSE on crossbow for tang stamp on back of large blade (V)
1961 - new design for Soldier, with red alox scales, cap lifter (pauses at 90 degrees), and Victorinox-style (arc) can opener.
*First years production:1962 (V) and 1963 (W)
1973 - number of coils on corkscrew reduced from 5 to 4 (V)

Some pics for illustration:
Hidden rivets in 1957
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
4 loop corckscrew on 1973 Champion
(Image removed from quote.)

Good knowledge! I think it would be clearer to separate Wenger from Victorinox

[jnoxyd]

Let me explain. I do not want to discuss the contents of the book, it is on the conscience of the author.  I would only like to indicate clearly erroneous dates in this timeline (that is used by many collectors worldwide ) and maybe give the necessary comments on the text and the author himself will decide whether to use it in the new edition.  As for the use of stainless steel, I am not surprised that Wenger began to use it a little earlier, because they were that time  focused on the production of cutlery.  I’d like to trust author, he spent a lot of time talking with Carl Elsener, Peter Huge, Urs Wyss and others. Here is what the author writes about materials:

 “... In 1820 James Stodart and Michael Faraday of England had tried adding gold and silver to iron in an attempt to make steel that would not rust. It rusted. Other experimenters had no better luck. Then in 1912 Krupp ironworks in Germany patented a rust-resistant steel with 21% chromium and 7% nickel. In 1914 Harry Brearley of Sheffield made a good "rustless steel" by adding chromium in the amount of about 13% to the molten iron. Elwood Haynes of Kokomo, Indiana in his 1921 paper on stainless steel presented at the annual meeting of the American Iron and Steel institute refrains from mentioning his invention and stainless high chromium steel patented in 1912 as “Stellite". "Inox", which has appeared since the 1920s on knives of many European manufacturers, is short for "Inoxydable", French for Unoxidizable: that is, Rust-proof (rust is iron oxide); in German the word is Rostfrei: Rustfree. Oxidation is the process whereby a material breaks down by combining with oxygen. (Fire is a state of very rapid oxidation; bluing is a process of controlled oxidation to provide surface protection for the steel of products like firearms.)"

From 100 Anniversary Wenger’s book:

"Les origines d'une tradition de l’innovation


Erich Oppenheim laissa un portrait plus ou moins flatteur de son beau-père comme entrepreneur et homme d'affaires. Il était plein de ressources, avec une bonne compréhension des techniques de fabrication et ne cessait de se tenir informé en lisant des revues professionnelles. Par exemple, il reconnut très tôt que le simple chromage en surface de l’acier augmentait la durée de vie de l’objet, ce qui l'a amené à introduire en Suisse le premier couteau de table en acier nickel chrome (nichrome).
Les archives de la Société ayant disparu, peu d’informations purent être collectées sur la période 1908 à 1921, ce qui correspondait à la période de la société en commandite, mais dans tous les cas l’entreprise fut marquée par la Première Guerre mondiale. D’après un «récapitulatif sommaire", écrit par un syndicaliste militant, au cours de la période de 1914 à 1920, les éléments en aluminium ont été très en vogue, et cette production a été poursuivi durant une certaine période par les usines de couteaux.
"Les premiers couteaux de poche premier en acier inoxydable», écrit-il, "ont été produites à partir de 1919 pour le numéro 112, puis durant les années suivantes pour les autres modèles ainsi que les couteaux de table, les cuillères et fourchettes suivirent quelques années plus tard." Pendant plusieurs années, ils produisirent des machines à polir l’argent TAHARA, principalement utiliser par les hôtels; la fabrication bénéficiait d’un brevet pour toute l'Europe. "

[jnoxyd]

Let's continue .
List of corrections
1957 - rivets now hidden under scales (V)
1957 to 1973 - VICTORIA OFFICIER SUISSE on crossbow for tang stamp on back of large blade (V)
1961 - new design for Soldier, with red alox scales, cap lifter (pauses at 90 degrees), and Victorinox-style (arc) can opener.
*First years production:1962 (V) and 1963 (W)
1973 - number of coils on corkscrew reduced from 5 to 4 (V)

1931 or before - cap lifter on screwdriver (V)
*1953 -  rivetless scales from Tenite  Butyrate (W), Wenger allowed Victorinox to use this patent
1986 - V of VICTORINOX tang stamp now larger than other letters
1951-1952 - introduction of fish-scaler, metal saw, and forged back-side Phillips screwdriver (squared shank w/file) (V)
1971 - file no longer on side of phillips screwdriver (V)
* 1951-1973 - square Philllips, file, no slot
*1957-early1970s - Elinox series had unpolished no file square Phillips
* 1973 to 1983 - square Phillips, slot (can key) added to end of phillips driver (V)
* 1983 to 1991- round Phillips with slot
* 1991 - round Phillips without slot
ca 1957 - wood saw no longer has nail-nick * and now 29 teeth (V)

1931 knife with cap lifter:

[kamakiri]

Suggested corrections 1 of 2:

*1963(?) - tweezer-end now aluminum (previously nickel-silver) (V)
1957 to 1978 - Elinox line: with inlaid curved-triangle "federal" shield and cross on scale, with crossbow and ELINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS ROSTFREI on tang; printed federal shield and cross on later knives (V)
*missing info on last "federal" shield which was stainless steel inlay.


*1957 - rivets now hidden under scales

1961 ? - reamer with blade edge replaces simple quarter-round leather punch (V)
*This note should be split into the new reamer introduction (c. '61) and the end of the quarter-conical awl post-'63, maybe later.

1961 - formerly optional bail now standard (V)
*still seems pretty optional to me through the '60s?

1957? to 1974 - VICTORIA OFFICIER SUISSE on crossbow for tang stamp on back of large blade (V)

1968 - lanyard attachment ring on filler next to small blade replaces bail -- transition (usually 1 year) takes to mid-70s (V)
*Perhaps split into split keyring introduction date and bail end date?

*1973? - sharp wirestripper removed from cap-lifter/screwdriver (V) *I've never found the supposed '69 deletions, but can confirm the scraper is in the c. '72 Champion with the first ruler marks on the fish scaler.

 

[kamakiri]

Suggested Corrections 2 of 2:

1972 or earlier - ruler added to fish-scaler (V) (1975?) *I believe the first ruler to be roughly late '72.

*1971 - PAT no longer on can opener (20-year patent expires V) *I believe the 20 year period starts from the patent application date in May '51 and subsequently ends in mid-'71.

1974 - special run of Fisherman with blue scales (V) *1957?-1974? continuous production? I doubt it was only a special run.

*1970? - closed scissors have open rather than filled profile, w/double- rather than single-leaf spring (V)

*1972 - fine screwdriver on back of large Officer models (V)

*1973-1975 blued double-leaf scissor springs and blank rear tang stamps.

1980 - insignia inlay changed from nickel-silver to stainless steel (inox) (V) *This is the nickel silver end date, stainless steel inlays used in various periods from 1973+

*1999 - CyberTool *I received my first one late in '99, a CT34 with '99 marked translucent scales.

[elsinox]

also a few suggestions for the earlier years..

1902 - new models based on Officer design - wood saw, scissors, bail, tweezers, and toothpick (E): think thats wrong. What I see is that they produced the model Nr. 237 the same time (or minimum later) and the model Nr. 235 and Nr. 236 also a bit more later than 1897
1902 - Karl Elsener patents a type of folding knife whose 1-piece metal handle is also the back-spring: non important information,  because what I know is that those 2 models never went into production.
1908 - new, lighter Soldier Model 1908, with fiber scales: wrong. They produced the smaller one (model Nr. 204) at least since 1901.
1908 ? - issued Soldier knives have Swiss cross stamp on scale : wrong. The cross was there since 1891.
1909 or before - Officer line now 3 pins visible instead of 4 (E): that depends on the scale material, and on the knifemaker that assembled the knives.
1932 or earlier - ARMÉE SUISSE on some until 1949 (V) much earlier
1930s - nickel-silver replaces brass for liners and dividers on Officer's knives (V) brass was not the only material for dividers and liners ; the often used also aluminium.
1936 or before - cap lifter on screwdriver (V) before. Those two options were available for a longer time period ; you could order the knvies with solid screwdriver, or with the caplifter-screwdriver. So here you can see whats typical for many tools : not one new tool replaced another old one.
1937 (or '38 or '39) - Soldier Knife now made of stainless steel : soldier knives were not produced of stainless steel until the model nr. 151 (soldier 51). But there was a civil version of the soldier knife produced of stainless steel, but that started the same time they produced stainless steel or minimal later, not 1937.

[jnoxyd]

Great. Thank you Elsinox!
I think Mike should check all blade stamps dates with Ulli's date sheet. Do you have the latest version, Elsinox?

[jnoxyd]

Thanks, Kamakiri! You are right about our lovely blue Fischermesser. I'd like to add nice pictures by Jazzbass and from net:

[elsinox]

Great. Thank you Elsinox!
I think Mike should check all blade stamps dates with Ulli's date sheet. Do you have the latest version, Elsinox?

The latest version of the tang stamp sheet? Yes I think I have it. But its not available on digital ressource, or at least not meant for that.

[jnoxyd]

The latest version of the tang stamp sheet? Yes I think I have it. But its not available on digital ressource, or at least not meant for that.

The latest versions I have are from 2017.
Here's one shown by Ulli on MTO:

and another one:


Unfortunately some dates were fixed but some not. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[elsinox]

Here you see the mainproblem: different sheets from different time periods, but the "most correct" is alway the latest one - but that is listed at the end of the thread. So another problem is, that people use an old sheet, most time the first on the thread, the oldest, "most incorrect" one. Often, they use them without permission. So those are the problems in our digital globalized world :-)

The latest of ullis tang stamp sheet is available in the booklet on my hp. I think there are 124 different tang stamps at the moment, so 25 more than on the 2017 sheet. As far as I know, those where is written "ca" means non valid dates; where there is a "?" means no known dates at all; where there are none "ca" or "?" means more or less valid dates.

[jnoxyd]

Here you see the mainproblem: different sheets from different time periods, but the "most correct" is alway the latest one - but that is listed at the end of the thread. So another problem is, that people use an old sheet, most time the first on the thread, the oldest, "most incorrect" one. Often, they use them without permission. So those are the problems in our digital globalized world :-)

The latest of ullis tang stamp sheet is available in the booklet on my hp. I think there are 124 different tang stamps at the moment, so 25 more than on the 2017 sheet. As far as I know, those where is written "ca" means non valid dates; where there is a "?" means no known dates at all; where there are none "ca" or "?" means more or less valid dates.

Ok, and what about incorrect dates I shown above in your sheet version?
You are right about different Ulli's sheets that people used, we need to ask Ulli add the date of release on his next versions.
And yes, Ulli's sheets, both Victorinox and Wengers, are absolutely great, I like them and just want to see them 100% correct!

[kamakiri]

I think the OSC start is c.‘76. Based on my collection, main line knives were all blank rear tang from c.’73 through ‘75.

Pointing out the two main +PAT would be nice. ‘53-‘57 for the large and ‘’57-‘71 crew the v2 small.

[jnoxyd]

I think the OSC start is c.‘76. Based on my collection, main line knives were all blank rear tang from c.’73 through ‘75.

Its interesting question, I think it was 1975 , we need some AD knives with dates from these years !

[kamakiri]

Its interesting question , we need some AD knives with dates from these years !

 

I wish! But the overlap with black double leaf scissor spring is tough to ignore...

I can show continuous progression with models like Grands Prix and various Camping logo models. There’s no apparent showing of a rear tang stamp in the middle. Pretty sure I’d own one.

It’s far more likely that something has been inserted in between erroneously. I have very good markers/details through this time frame and cannot place any other main line knives as ‘74 with a rear OSC tang stamp.

[jnoxyd]

I wish! But the overlap with black double leaf scissor spring is tough to ignore...

I can show continuous progression with models like Grands Prix and various Camping logo models. There’s no apparent showing of a rear tang stamp in the middle. Pretty sure I’d own one.

It’s far more likely that something has been inserted in between erroneously. I have very good markers/details through this time frame and cannot place any other main line knives as ‘74 with a rear OSC tang stamp.

Can you explain please, why 1976 instead of 1975? Also I offer to continue dates discussing in the Ulli's topic here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.0.html

[kamakiri]

Can you explain please, why 1976 instead of 1975? Also I offer to continue dates discussing in the Ulli's topic here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.0.html

I see late ‘75 as a possibility. I say c.’76 only because I can’t rule it (‘75) out 100%

The changes are very easy for me to spot externally with all tools closed on 5+ layer knives and thinner ones with either saw. So I have a ton of data on this even from knives I don’t own.

[jnoxyd]

Ok, let's go to the Ulli's topic.