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Traditional Knives, Premium Steels

nate j · 151 · 7195

us Offline nate j

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Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
on: April 27, 2020, 12:51:08 AM
The title pretty much says it all.

While it is fairly easy to find modern knives being manufactured with higher end steels such as ATS-34, 154CM, S30V, S35VN, etc., finding traditional patterns using these same steels is proving an interesting collecting challenge for me lately.

Left to right:

Cold Steel Ranch Boss (S35VN)

Schatt & Morgan Series IX Stockman (ATS-34 main blade)

Cattaraugus Cutlery CM-16 (ATS-34 clip blade)
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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #1 on: April 27, 2020, 12:52:34 AM
More pics of the above knives...
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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #2 on: April 27, 2020, 12:56:04 AM
Top to bottom:

Cattaraugus Cutlery CM-15 (ATS-34 main blade)

Case Mini-Trapper (154CM)

Case Barlow (154CM)
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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #3 on: April 27, 2020, 12:58:02 AM
Cattaraugus CM-15 looks almost the same as the CM-16 (especially in pictures), but seeing them next to one another the size difference becomes apparent.

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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #4 on: April 27, 2020, 12:59:11 AM
A few more pics of the Case Mini-Trapper...
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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #5 on: April 27, 2020, 12:59:56 AM
A few more pics of the Case Barlow...

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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #6 on: April 27, 2020, 01:07:08 AM
Cattaraugus CM-15 looks almost the same as the CM-16 (especially in pictures), but seeing them next to one another the size difference becomes apparent.


Sweet !    :drool:


us Offline Pop

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #7 on: April 27, 2020, 05:55:18 AM
Be on the lookout for the original Canal Street knives. Certain ones were made in 14-4 CrMo. That's a 154cm equivalent


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 07:08:34 AM
Case C. Platts & Sons Saddle Horn in ATS-34...

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il Offline pomsbz

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 09:05:19 AM
Buck 301 two blade stockman in CPM154.



"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson


il Offline pomsbz

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 09:12:00 AM
Lionsteel Roundhead in M390

"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 03:50:53 PM
Couple of nice ones there, pomsbz!   :tu:


us Offline SteveC

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 04:04:34 PM
Case C. Platts & Sons Saddle Horn in ATS-34...

Nice wavy jigging !   :tu:


us Offline David

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 05:19:17 PM
Cattaraugus CM-15 looks almost the same as the CM-16 (especially in pictures), but seeing them next to one another the size difference becomes apparent.

Like those Improved Muskrats!    :like:
What? Enablers! Are you serrrrious? Where? I dont see any.
Hold Fast


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #14 on: May 30, 2020, 06:39:15 AM
Case Doctor's Knife in ATS-34...

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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #15 on: May 30, 2020, 06:40:33 AM
...which came with a very nice wood case:

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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #16 on: May 30, 2020, 01:55:30 PM
 :like: :tu:


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #17 on: June 11, 2020, 06:57:13 AM
Case Trapper in 154CM...
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us Offline SteveC

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #18 on: June 11, 2020, 01:46:54 PM
Another nice one Nate !    :like: :tu:


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #19 on: June 11, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
Whole lotta awesome in this thread  :drool:
Esse Quam Videri


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #20 on: June 12, 2020, 06:14:37 AM
Thanks guys!


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #21 on: June 14, 2020, 03:37:05 AM
@pomsbz how do you like that Lionsteel Roundhead?


il Offline pomsbz

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #22 on: June 16, 2020, 05:12:45 AM
@pomsbz how do you like that Lionsteel Roundhead?

It's how 'did' I like it I'm afraid. I had one of the originals. It was simply too thick behind the edge to be a slicer and despite the 'supersteel' it wouldn't hold an edge which was weird. I had it set up by 3 different sharpening pro's but to no use. I just gave up. It's a shame, otherwise it was a brilliant, perfect knife, in hand, in pocket, for the eye, etc. I've heard that the second run was thinner behind the edge and there was some controversy about the hardening of the steel which seems to have blown over but I've transitioned over to carrying a SAK full time these days.
"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #23 on: June 17, 2020, 05:30:33 AM
It's how 'did' I like it I'm afraid. I had one of the originals. It was simply too thick behind the edge to be a slicer and despite the 'supersteel' it wouldn't hold an edge which was weird. I had it set up by 3 different sharpening pro's but to no use. I just gave up. It's a shame, otherwise it was a brilliant, perfect knife, in hand, in pocket, for the eye, etc. I've heard that the second run was thinner behind the edge and there was some controversy about the hardening of the steel which seems to have blown over but I've transitioned over to carrying a SAK full time these days.

Interesting; thanks for sharing that.  I've been eyeing up the two-blade version, but $160 is the best price I can find, which is a pretty penny for a knife in my estimation, and I'm still on the fence about it.


us Offline cody6268

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #24 on: June 21, 2020, 04:05:47 AM
Carbon steel is tough and easy to sharpen, but not very high on the edge retention, corrosion resistance, and many performance steels are tougher and more wear resistant.  The Cold Steel Ranch Boss (which I recall was made by Canal Street Cutlery Co.)was S30V, Queen used a lot of 154CM, ATS34, and D2 (and some of their early "440 Stainless" knives were 440C, not 440A). I use a D2 Railsplitter quite a lot. My question is--why don't we see more of it? While Buck 420HC is really good, Rough Ryder 440A decent, and Case Tru-Sharp OK, they are not the best. I sharpen my 420HC 110 far more than I do my 440C 110 from the mid 1970s. And that is sharpened more than my CPM-154 version.  Pretty much, the only thing "upgraded" in traditional steels is the occasional Euro traditional in Sandvik 12C27 or 440C (which the Italians seem to love).   S30V is a very good steel, and is well suited to a workingman's knife. The Bohler stainless steels are very well balanced with great corrosion resistance and edge retention.

Of course, I'd say it's down to cost. Look what Cases are these days! Imagine a GEC in a premium steel. The price would be nuts!  But, why not?  Sometimes, I like the form of traditional knives over more modern designs .


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #25 on: June 21, 2020, 07:42:09 AM
Carbon steel is tough and easy to sharpen, but not very high on the edge retention, corrosion resistance, and many performance steels are tougher and more wear resistant.  The Cold Steel Ranch Boss (which I recall was made by Canal Street Cutlery Co.)was S30V, Queen used a lot of 154CM, ATS34, and D2 (and some of their early "440 Stainless" knives were 440C, not 440A). I use a D2 Railsplitter quite a lot. My question is--why don't we see more of it? While Buck 420HC is really good, Rough Ryder 440A decent, and Case Tru-Sharp OK, they are not the best. I sharpen my 420HC 110 far more than I do my 440C 110 from the mid 1970s. And that is sharpened more than my CPM-154 version.  Pretty much, the only thing "upgraded" in traditional steels is the occasional Euro traditional in Sandvik 12C27 or 440C (which the Italians seem to love).   S30V is a very good steel, and is well suited to a workingman's knife. The Bohler stainless steels are very well balanced with great corrosion resistance and edge retention.

Of course, I'd say it's down to cost. Look what Cases are these days! Imagine a GEC in a premium steel. The price would be nuts!  But, why not?  Sometimes, I like the form of traditional knives over more modern designs .

I think you've hit on a good example with Buck.  Some of their popular models, including the 110, 112, and Squire, are available in their standard 420HC, but also premium steels like S30V, S35VN, and 20CV.  The premium steel models are roughly twice the price of the standard models.  I'd gladly pay twice the price of, say, a standard Case knife to get a premium steel version.  I refuse, however, to pay ten times the price, which is what the Case/Tony Bose collaborations in 154CM seem to go for.


us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #26 on: June 27, 2020, 08:10:21 AM
Another Case Trapper in 154CM...
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us Offline nate j

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #27 on: July 01, 2020, 06:19:16 AM
It's how 'did' I like it I'm afraid. I had one of the originals. It was simply too thick behind the edge to be a slicer and despite the 'supersteel' it wouldn't hold an edge which was weird. I had it set up by 3 different sharpening pro's but to no use. I just gave up. It's a shame, otherwise it was a brilliant, perfect knife, in hand, in pocket, for the eye, etc. I've heard that the second run was thinner behind the edge and there was some controversy about the hardening of the steel which seems to have blown over but I've transitioned over to carrying a SAK full time these days.

Well, I succumbed (as we all knew I eventually would), and snagged one with a single clip-point blade and green G-10 handle.  The video review by the US distributor notes exactly what you said, that the original spear point blade was criticized for being too thick behind the edge, and that this and other later blades are thinner.  Initial impressions overall are positive, but we shall see...
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us Offline David

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #28 on: July 01, 2020, 12:50:17 PM
Good score!     :like:
What? Enablers! Are you serrrrious? Where? I dont see any.
Hold Fast


il Offline pomsbz

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Re: Traditional Knives, Premium Steels
Reply #29 on: July 01, 2020, 05:58:21 PM
Well, I succumbed (as we all knew I eventually would), and snagged one with a single clip-point blade and green G-10 handle.  The video review by the US distributor notes exactly what you said, that the original spear point blade was criticized for being too thick behind the edge, and that this and other later blades are thinner.  Initial impressions overall are positive, but we shall see...

I'd be interested in your thoughts!
"It is better to lose health like a spendthrift than to waste it like a miser." - Robert Louis Stevenson


 

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