91 mm Relationship Diagram 1897 - 1975 Officer Knives

[elsinox]

I`ve tried to make a diagram with the 91 mm officer knives from 1897 - ca 1975, as I did with the 84 mm knives. I found it quite more difficult. With the metalfile and fishscaled used in different ways, much more new lines. Maybe its not the best way to connect the models - maybe someone has a better way.

I just included the official models that ever appeared in an official catalog or document, so no special or custom runs, no fisherman solo for example. Sadly, there are some empty boxes where I dont have any knife to show. Maybe I also forgot some models - hopefully not.



Click here for larger image.

[jnoxyd]

Very nice diagram, Elsinox! Thanks for sharing it here.
What do you think about 236 fm and 136 fm? It seems to me they were in production since 1973. Together 1973 Champion and Explorer you included you can find Modeler from this time period.
Here's 236 fm Handyman from friend's collection (he forgot to open saw):

One 136fm with VOS stamp, clip point small blade etc. was sold on eBay recently.

[elsinox]

You`re right. I have the 136 fm and 236 fm in my notes. I just thought that later they changed the name to 146 fm and 246 fm. Because the 136 fm and 236 fm I found only once in a catalog, without the 146 fm and 246 fm, and one or two years later, just the 146 fm and 246 fm without the 136 fm and 236 fm. But it seems that first they produced the "Champion" without the Long nailfile.

And I just saw that I have two times the 236 f in the diagram… so lot of stuff to Change.

[jnoxyd]

You`re right. I have the 136 fm and 236 fm in my notes. I just thought that later they changed the name to 146 fm and 246 fm. Because the 136 fm and 236 fm I found only once in a catalog, without the 146 fm and 246 fm, and one or two years later, just the 146 fm and 246 fm without the 136 fm and 236 fm. But it seems that first they produced the "Champion" without the Long nailfile.

And I just saw that I have two times the 236 f in the diagram… so lot of stuff to Change.

Great. Check 234 too . BTW do you need 234f picture ? I can made one for your nice diagram if you agree.

[elsinox]

Great. Check 234 too . BTW do you need 234f picture ? I can made one for your nice diagram

That would be great! The 234f seems to be really rare and only produced for a short time.

[jnoxyd]

That would be great! The 234f seems to be really rare and only produced for a short time.

Ok, just I need to find gray background.

[LeaF]

Nice diagram, Elsinox!


Few comments from my side:


1. Have you ever seen variation of Fischermesser (235) with tech.screwdriver like this: https://leaf-vics.com/2016/11/473-fischermesser-ii.html
2. Model Picknicker (8237) as I saw in old catalogs, produced with and without wood-saw: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76889.msg1678424.html
3. Looks like you have a typo within name of your site (I suppose)  - elsinox.com, not elinox.com

[elsinox]

Nice diagram, Elsinox!


Few comments from my side:


1. Have you ever seen variation of Fischermesser (235) with tech.screwdriver like this: https://leaf-vics.com/2016/11/473-fischermesser-ii.html
2. Model Picknicker (8237) as I saw in old catalogs, produced with and without wood-saw: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76889.msg1678424.html
3. Looks like you have a typo within name of your site (I suppose)  - elsinox.com, not elinox.com

Thank you for the respond.

1: I`m not sure if I have seen this. I have a couple of blue fischermesser from the late 70s/80s, I have to check when I`m at home. But I don`t think they have the chisel/fine screwdriver on the back.
2: I`m pretty sure thats just a print mistake of the catalog. They just forgot to open the saw. I see that many times on auctions, that the seller forgot to open the saw. Sometimes, I`m quite sure it happens intentionally. Because the pictures often don`t show the back of the knife or the top where you can see the layers. And a picknicker with closed saw goes for about 250$ - one without just for about 40$.
3: indeed, bad mistake. I will change that.

[elsinox]

If anybody have the models 135, 146 or 239 and is willing to borrow a picture for the diagram, that would be great.

For me it seems, that vintage 91 mm knives with phillips are quite more rare than in 84 mm. Is that true? I always tought that its the other way. That a "tinker" is quite more common than a "tinker small".

[LeaF]

2: I`m pretty sure thats just a print mistake of the catalog.

I thought about such scenario, but pay attention - under picture we have a list of tools, and it's different: 10 and 9 tools accordingly. The wood-saw is missing in the second list.
I can believe in one print mistake, but two mistakes... and well synchronized mistakes?... Too much for me

[elsinox]

I thought about such scenario, but pay attention - under picture we have a list of tools, and it's different: 10 and 9 tools accordingly. The wood-saw is missing in the second list.
I can believe in one print mistake, but two mistakes... and well synchronized mistakes?... Too much for me

:-)

I think it happened that way. A dealer or importer made his own catalog. As you can see, there`s nowhere even written "Victorinox". So its a non official catalog. So the dealer took fotos of the knives he wanted to sell - and there it happened, he forgot to open the saw. Later, he made the list of the tools with the fotos as base. Such things can happen easily. And why change the whole catalog? I think no one would complain to get an extra saw for the same price...

Its very clear: the "standard" picnicker with saw is quite much more common than the one without. In that catalog, there are only the high demanded knives, no other special ones. So why to include such a special knife with a low demand? And what would be the number? 8234? I have never seen that number in any vintage official victorinox catalogs...

[elsinox]

And one more thing. The price. In the catalog, the 2-layer knives are all between $8.60 and $8.80, and the 3-layer knives are between $10 and $10.50. The picnicker is $10. Why it is $1.20 - $1.40 more expensive than the other 2-layer models?

In a catalog from the 70s, with the original 3-layer picnicker, the 2-layer models are between $10 and $10.20, the picnicker is $11, that means $0.80 - $1.00 more than the 2-layer models. So why would be a 2-layer model in the 60s be that much more expensive compared to the other 2-layer models? Just makes no sense for me...

[LeaF]

And one more thing. ...
 So why would be a 2-layer model in the 60s be that much more expensive compared to the other 2-layer models? Just makes no sense for me...

Why model Compact (2 layers) currently much more expensive (CHF41) than Camper which has 3 layers (with wood-saw!) - CHF23 or even expensive than 4-layered Huntsman (also with wood-saw) - CHF35? 

Show content

It's a Victorinox.. Sometimes no sense, sometimes - no logic

[jnoxyd]

That would be great! The 234f seems to be really rare and only produced for a short time.

Will these pictures fit your diagram?

[elsinox]

Will these pictures fit your diagram?
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Whow, perfect, thanks a lot! I will post the updated diagram soon.

[Reinier]

Was 234f actually an official no.? I called mine 234faU but I think I came up with that number myself, based on the old naming convention.



https://vicfan.com/2018/12/vintage-victorinox-fischermesser/

[elsinox]

So here is the newest updated version of the diagram. I would appreciate it when an admin/moderator could delete the diagram of the first post, because I cant. That would help a lot to prevent further problems using the diagram and maybe the same happens like the one with the sawless picnicker :-)

Was 234f actually an official no.? I called mine 234faU but I think I came up with that number myself, based on the old naming convention.

https://vicfan.com/2018/12/vintage-victorinox-fischermesser/

The 234f is/was an official number. I found that in a vintage original victorinox catalog. The only one I m not 100% sure is the Nr. 136f.

[Reinier]

Thanks elsinox

[zoidberg]

So here is the newest updated version of the diagram. I would appreciate it when an admin/moderator could delete the diagram of the first post, because I cant.

First post edited and image link added.

[elsinox]

First post edited and image link added.

Perfect, thanks a lot!

[jnoxyd]

Sorry Elsinox but I can't find Nr. 136 on the diagram
Let me know if you need picture

[elsinox]

Sorry Elsinox but I can't find Nr. 136 on the diagram
Let me know if you need picture

Ouff yes you`re right. I need also a picture. Where do you always find those vintage phillips models?

Now I`m not so happy with the arrangement of the knives. The idea was, base layer with the standard corkscrew models, 234, 235, 237, 236, above the philipps models, 134,... down the long nailfile models. Maybe I will arrange all the stuff again new.

[elsinox]

1. Have you ever seen variation of Fischermesser (235) with tech.screwdriver like this: https://leaf-vics.com/2016/11/473-fischermesser-ii.html

I checked, but I have not such a model and I think never seen one. I have just a blue Angler with multipurpose hook.

[jnoxyd]

Here's Nr. 136. I don't have Nr. 146 and honestly never seen it. Maybe Jazzbass has one?

[jnoxyd]

236 fm (1.3793 according  post 1973 numeration)

Modeler. I’m sure they made it together Champion since 1973 but I didn’t see Woodsman with mag glass/Phillips from this period. Maybe somebody has?

[elsinox]

Perfect, thanks a lot!

I just think that this was not the last modification in that diagram...

[jnoxyd]

Here's c.1973 Modeler shown by one German collector:

[kamakiri]

236 fm (1.3793 according  post 1973 numeration)

Interesting...scissors repaired or replaced? They look ‘77+ with the big screw.

I have a couple but not good condition. Both small screw and c. early-’73.

I also have a couple that are ‘74/‘75, no clip but black scissor springs and original stainless steel shield scales.

[kamakiri]

If anybody have the models 135, 146 or 239 and is willing to borrow a picture for the diagram, that would be great.

For me it seems, that vintage 91 mm knives with phillips are quite more rare than in 84 mm. Is that true? I always tought that its the other way. That a "tinker" is quite more common than a "tinker small".

I think 91mm Phillips are much more rare. 134k and 136ka are pretty common and I have dozens of each. 91mm, not so much.

Looks like you have 136 example from jnoxyd. I have one c. ‘58, but afraid to open fully for pictures!  One ‘71.5-‘72 but Hoffritz.

I do not have or recall seeing a 146 yet.

[kamakiri]

Oops!

I meant to also post a 236fm instead. Correct tools, but dirty and broken black spring.