Hard Drives and processor question

[SteveC]

So I'm probably going to get a new desktop soon and it seems like there are some choices as far as hard drives go as well as i5 or i7. Some I'm looking at have both solid state and old school .

Like this one

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/inspiron-desktop/spd/inspiron-3671-desktop/nd3671dszps?view=configurations

Some have a newer processor but with only solid sate and less memory

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/inspiron-desktop/spd/inspiron-3671-desktop/nd3671dsffs


I don't need a ton of memory,  on my current computer I'm only using like 94GB and I'm not a gamer.


Which is better for staying up with things as far as keeping up with times ?

[nate j]

It is certainly valuable to consider how you intend to use the computer.  If you plan to use your new computer much like your current one, then it may be worth taking a look via Task Manager and Resource Monitor at how your existing system is performing (CPU, Memory, and Storage).

• CPU (processor) - Unless you anticipate using your computer for gaming, video editing, virtual reality, or something else that requires a lot of rapid or complex calculations, I doubt you would see any practical difference in performance between i5 and i7 processors of the same generation.  FWIW, my current desktop is running an older generation i5, which only has about half the computing capacity of the newer i5 you are looking at and 1/3 the capacity of the newer i7 you are looking at, and (not counting BOINC) I still generally stay below 50% processor utilization for common tasks like browsing the internet, watching movies, checking email, etc.
• Memory/RAM (what you're referring to as "memory" is more commonly referred to as "storage"; see next bullet point for that) - Memory holds information that is currently being used.  It plays a vital role, passing this information to and from the processor and storage, and it often seems that the memory (not the processor) is the limiting factor in the performance of many off-the-shelf computers.  It can also limit how many apps/the size of apps that can be smoothly run on the machine simultaneously.  Personally, I have 12 GB of memory on my current desktop; it's not uncommon for me to utilize 80% of that; and if I were in the market for a new desktop today, I would be looking for at least 16 GB RAM (possibly more if I could get it without breaking the bank).  But, I'm the type to be browsing the internet, watching a movie, checking email, and working on a spreadsheet all at the same time.  If you're the type who always closes one application before opening another, you may get by with less.  As noted above, opening all the apps you would normally run simultaneously and then taking a quick look at Task Manager should let you know where you stand today.
• Storage - A solid state drive offers improved speed/performance over a conventional hard drive.  However, the difference may or may not be significant to individual end user, depending on how they use the machine.  The main advantage of a conventional hard drive is that it is less expensive per GB than a solid state drive.  As you have observed, some systems have both a solid state and a conventional hard drive, the idea being that the solid state drive allows quick loading of frequently used apps, while the conventional hard drive provides a large reservoir of storage relatively inexpensively.  If you're only using 94 GB of storage on your current desktop, depending on how fast you see this increasing and how long you plan to keep the new machine, you might be OK with 256GB.  Only you can decide, but a general rule of thumb is to get more storage than you think you'll need, as it is relatively cheap upfront (especially with a conventional hard drive) and running out of storage is a PITA.  FWIW, I have 1 TB of storage on my current desktop, and I'm using about 330 GB of it.

[Vidar]

Which is better for staying up with things as far as keeping up with times ?

I would say that depends a fair bit on what you use your computer for? For normal surfing and office tasks most computers do just fine on the processing side. Anything with 12GB+ of RAM and a solid state drive will do a good job for that these days. (Add more storage as needed). (I'd guess 8GB would be enough too, but as I don't have any computers with that I don't feel sure saying that).

I still have a computer from about 2008 in regular use for general surfing and office tasks and I can't tell the difference for that from the more modern ones - in practice I'm the slow bottleneck not the computer.

If you have more exotic tasks in mind then CPU, memory and likely the graphic card GPU (with memory) might become more pressing issues. (Graphic cards are used for a lot of processing intensive tasks these days and not just graphics).

Edit: In general more and faster will likely carry longer into the future so there is that. But the same more and faster can likely be had in the future for a lot less... Ok, I'm not really helping I guess? 

[Whoey]

Current gen i5 behaves like older gen i7.

1st option seems solid, although the 2nd one while you gain the i7, and 4GB ram, it seems to lose the 1TB traditional storage.

I'd lean towards #1 and put the saved money towards bumping the ram up to 16GB.

I would probably throw in and aftermarket video card too... but as you aren't a gamer you may be fine with onboard graphics.

[Don Pablo]

I'd pick the first one, and keep the extra money so that:

If you run out of space on that fancy NVMe SSD and the hard drive is too slow for your taste, buy a regular 2.5" 500GB SSD for about $50-100 to add in.

If you want to play games and the integrated graphics isn't enough, you can buy a graphics card for about $100-200.

If you run out of memory frequently, buy another 8GB stick for about $40.

A i5 9400 is pretty powerful. From a gaming perspective, you'd have to spend more than $150 on a graphics card for the 9400 to be the weak link in your system.

[Chako]

I just built a system recently. Are you stuck on Intel processors?

I would look to see what something with AMD might offer you.A Ryzen 2 or 3 CPU might be cheaper.
The one thing I would suggest, make sure your main drive is an SSD or even better, a NVME which is even faster yet. The speed up of windows alone will be one of the biggest benefits. Looks like both those Dell systems will have that. You will notice the speed difference if you go from a normal HD boot drive to an SSD or NVME drive.

8 Megs of RAM is Ok. 12 megs of ram is just weird. That means you will have an 8 and a 4 Gb module. The rule of thumb for computer efficiency is to have two modules the same...be it 2, 4, 6, 8, 16, 32, etc. The reason, modern CPUs have dual memory controllers, so it pays to have 2 equal amount memory modules. 12 Gb of RAM is sufficient for what you plan on doing...but that would personally bother me. The sweet spot is 2x8 RAM modules that will give you 16Gb of memory. You might never need that much...but it is on tap for when you might down the road. The worry is that you don't have enough memory..which slows down your computer. Frankly 8 should be enough. I would stick with even RAM digits however to maximize your systems potential of accessing it.

Just remember, if you do not plan on upgrading your DELL, then this is not a worry. Just be aware that most of these companies do not want you upgrading your system during the warranty period.  They tend to lock the enclosure with a warranty is void if broken sticker.

Other than that, by all means, only you can assess what your needs are. I am sure you will like whatever you get. Lots of good suggestions already in this thread. 

[Vidar]

8 Megs of RAM is Ok. 12 megs of ram is just weird. That means you will have an 8 and a 4 Gb module. The rule of thumb for computer efficiency is to have two modules the same...be it 2, 4, 6, 8, 16, 32, etc. The reason, modern CPUs have dual memory controllers, so it pays to have 2 equal amount memory modules.

That is very true. The reason I have 12GB at all is because that old 2008 computer have four modules and one has failed - thus 12GB still working.

[Whoey]

Ironically my desktop has 12 right now too, because I swapped 2x4GB to the wife's PC so she could have 8GB (her board only has 2 slots) and put her 2x2GB in with my other 2x4GB.

I have been looking at some 2x8 kits that I was considering grabbing a couple to put my system up to the 32 max it will take (it's an older i7 system, but it still keeps up pretty well) but given that I am unsure when I will be heading back to Paris or not, might not be worthwhile upgrading my desktop to have it sitting for several months (and maybe the prices will drop further on DDR3) Also, I'd be tempted to max out my laptop instead, even though it already has 16Gb installed.

8GB is fine if you aren't doing heavy duty computing/gaming, even chrome is happy with only that much... and paired with the NVME it's overkill for most basic tasks.

The linked PCs both have m.2 NVME SSDs, so no slouch there.

[SteveC]

This is what I have now an older HP

[Don Pablo]

The i5 will be a nice upgrade-able upgrade from that.

[Chako]

Anything will be a nice upgrade.

[SteveC]

Why do they sell 12GB models then   


I was looking at this one


https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/inspiron-desktop/spd/inspiron-3671-desktop/nd3671dxsjs

[Vidar]

Why do they sell 12GB models then   

12GB might be an odd uneven pair size but it is still a lot better than 8GB even pair sized once you need more than 8GB. If there isn't enough RAM the computer will have to use storage space on hard drives to compensate and that is several magnitudes slower. The performance loss due to uneven RAM might be in the order of 3-15% compared to paired ones, while the loss to having to use hard drives might be a factor of say 40 - 400 depending on the size of the chunks to be accessed. (SDD clearly faster than mechanical hard drives. All guesstimates based on my slightly haphazard memory).

Extra ram wont make any difference unless your use actually needs it. Thus it might make sense to have enough RAM for normal use and maybe a bit extra for those times you have lots of browsers and what not open. Normal use is about 8GB these days I think, so another 4GB makes sense from that perspective.

[Don Pablo]

Why do they sell 12GB models then   


I was looking at this one


https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/inspiron-desktop/spd/inspiron-3671-desktop/nd3671dxsjs

So for an extra $70, you get another 4gb of RAM, the SSD is double the size (that probably costs about $50 for the fast kind they use), and you lose the 1TB HDD (probably worth $40).

I'd get the cheaper i5 model, and see if any upgrades are needed down the line as you go. If you need more SSD space and more RAM, that will only be about $80 or so, and you'd stilll have the 1TB HDD.

My laptop has a nice SSD and 8GB of RAM. The only problems I've had involve the lower-power mobile integrated graphics from 2015.

[SteveC]

Is it better to have both SSD and HDD ?  I mean I will never need 1TB of storage. In fact 256GB is probably more than I'll need.
My brother thinks it would be better to just have a SSD 

There is also this one

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/desktop-computers/inspiron-desktop/spd/inspiron-3671-desktop/nd3671dseus

[Chako]

I would not worry about storage you may never need. A HD is cheap and easy to install later anyways. Go for the NVME over an SSD. The NVME 2.0 looks like a stick of bubblegum. An SSD looks similar to a HD but 2.5" as opposed to 3.5" HDs. Be sure your main drive is a 2.0 NVME drive. There are slower drives that look like the NVME but are the same speed as a SSD.

Are you set on Dell?

[Whoey]

Cautionary tale:

Traditional hard drive usually fails gradually, and you often have the possibility to recover most if not all your data before it finally dies for good.

SSD rarely gives you much of a warning. They do usually have a lifetime measurement, I have an old unused 120gb that has 35% if it's useful life left. However, the laptops at work all run on SSD, and I have seen a couple  fail completely without warning or option to recover anything. There have been system failures too, where windows installs corrupt, and sometimes you can recover data.

Anyways these are extreme cases, but a standard drive is a good idea for data and backups. And as mentioned, easy to get a nice big drive for little investment

[SteveC]

I would not worry about storage you may never need. A HD is cheap and easy to install later anyways. Go for the NVME over an SSD. The NVME 2.0 looks like a stick of bubblegum. An SSD looks similar to a HD but 2.5" as opposed to 3.5" HDs. Be sure your main drive is a 2.0 NVME drive. There are slower drives that look like the NVME but are the same speed as a SSD.

Are you set on Dell?

Not really set on any one maker. I've always had HD's in the past but  Dell seems to be a better deal and that's why I was looking at them, and they have a a good reputation.  Any other you think I should look at ?

[Don Pablo]

Putting together computers is not hard Probably not much cheaper, but there's the "I made it!" aspect.

List I threw together:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zwmQ9G
Equal CPU, better graphics, 16GB RAM, 500GB super-SSD, 1TB HDD, motherboard has integrated WiFi.
Still need to add a keyboard and mouse and a screen, so it's not quite as cheap as it seems.
Someone will find the weak spots, I'm sure.

[Chako]

No video card in that list. There are 2 AMD CPUs with built in graphics...the Ryzen 5 2400G and the Ryzen 3 2200G. Not sure their prices.

That would make a very nice system...but you do have to build it yourself, or get someone else to build it for you. Building is not that hard,

Here is a not bad first time build guide...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-build-a-computer/

[Don Pablo]

No video card in that list. There are 2 AMD CPUs with built in graphics...the Ryzen 5 2400G and the Ryzen 3 2200G. Not sure their prices.

I have the latest in the list... The 3400G
Still has the same old Vega 11 integrated graphics, though.
Still would rather have it over intel 630 UHD graphics, though.

[Chako]

oh...of course. 

i forgot the G stands for built in graphics. I have the X instead.

[Chako]

SteveC building your computer is rather easy. Once you do it, it becomes easier the second and third time. I find the hardest part is hooking up the front case panel connectors to the motherboard. Depending on the motherboard and the individual plug ins, it can be confusing to plug power to power and ground to ground. Just take your time. Other than that, it isn't as hard as you might think.

I get the convenience of buying a pre-made system however, the system Don Pablo posted is a nice upgrade to the Dell.

Here is the system I put together this year. It gives a good idea behind sourcing the parts and putting it together somewhat.

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,83830.0.html

[SteveC]

Putting together computers is not hard Probably not much cheaper, but there's the "I made it!" aspect.

List I threw together:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zwmQ9G
Equal CPU, better graphics, 16GB RAM, 500GB super-SSD, 1TB HDD, motherboard has integrated WiFi.
Still need to add a keyboard and mouse and a screen, so it's not quite as cheap as it seems.
Someone will find the weak spots, I'm sure.

Don't play games so that computer seems way overkill and not really interesting in building one.


Honestly for what I use it for this is probably all I need. I don't store video so I don't see the need for 1TB of storage . I only use 120GB right now and don't see a need for much more.

Seems like i3 is more than enough as well but maybe I'm wrong there and i5 is worth the upgrade.It looks like the Dell xps are easier to upgrade than the inspiron series.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/computer-deals-electronics-on-sale/xps-desktop/spd/xps-8930-se-desktop/xdvmstcs001s?view=configurations&configurationid=e0c93693-5dce-4f7f-9690-4a8685c3ef2b

i5

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/computer-deals-electronics-on-sale/xps-desktop/spd/xps-8930-se-desktop/xdvmstcs001s?view=configurations&configurationid=62cfd4fc-9a7d-48a3-a300-a691d8547653

[Vidar]

It is standardized components. As long as there is physical space, and the motherboard has spare capacity, upgrading should be fine either way. It is likely not something you'll do very often anyway?

One factor that many overlook is the noise level of the machine. Some are definitely less noisy than others. Some care, some don't, but if you're in the first group that might a factor.

[Syncop8r]

Putting together computers is not hard

+1 Even I can do it!

I'm not sure if it's any help but this is how much of my SSD (C:Drive) and HDD (D:Drive) I am currently using.
I have Windows, Firefox, a big game and I'm not sure what else on the SSD. 
The HDD has other programs including a couple of CAD and another big game, lots of pictures and pdfs (amongst other things) and as you can see a huge amount of empty space, although I intend using some more of that in the future.

One day I will go through and remove what I can off the SSD and re-install on the HDD.

My point?    I wish I had installed a bigger SSD (perhaps at the expense of a smaller HDD).
My friend chose the components (and was going to build it for me but he piked out and I had to do it myself).

[Vidar]

My point?    I wish I had installed a bigger SSD (perhaps at the expense of a smaller HDD).

That looks about the same as all the computers I've had through the years. Except for the spare room available on the HDD: 

I guess we're victims of the law of storage space: There will never be enough.

[Syncop8r]

My SSD was even more full than that (I was getting warnings) so I took some programs off and put them on the HDD. Still more to do.

[Chako]

SteveC, it sounds like any computer will be a big upgrade to your current rig. If all you do is go online with it, than the CPU speed is insignificant. They all will do that. I  don't like odd RAM numbers. Frankly, knowing DELL sells odd configurations tells me to stay the heck away from them. On the other hand, if you don't care about gaming and having a relatively fast rig, than 12Gb of RAM will be more than enough. In fact, 8Gb of RAM will be more than enough. As far as the storage...a HD is slower than an SSD is slower than a M.2 NVME SSD drive. Having the fastest NVME drive is a good way of making the whole computer faster as traditionally, the HD is the slowest component in any build...and speeding the slowest part generally speeds up everything. From what you tell me, a cheaper SSD would do the trick for you. My first SSD was a 50Gb drive. Once I installed Windows, there wasn't much wiggle room for anything else. It was not long before I upgraded to a 128Gb (at the time, these SSD drives were very expensive). Guess what, that wasn't enough either, but I persevered with the aid of a slow HD. With my latest build, I made sure I had a 500Gb M.2 NVME drive for my main drive, another 500Gb SSD drive, and a 4Tb HD for photo storage etc. I know your needs for storage is much smaller...thus anything in the 250Gb range would suite your needs for now and the future.

Nothing wrong with Dell. By all means, get yourself something you will like. I know we talked about building your own...and that is not for everyone. 

[SteveC]

Thanks for all the info fellas. Anyone have any experience with Acer computers ?