Alox

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I have an inline Philips on all my SAKs. It's what I like. I'm thinking about buying alox, either a pioneer or farmer x. I see none have the Philips. I'd assume the can opener is used but I've never used as such. How useful is it? Torque? What's the downside to alox?

[Frailer]

IMHO the can opener works fairly well as a #2 Phillips driver. I wouldn’t put a *lot* of torque on it, but the same holds true of an in-line Phillips driver.

Edited to add: I just realized I didn’t answer your second question. The downsides to Alox knives are that they are heavier (although this is balanced by the fact they’re thinner, with sturdier tools and greater robustness), and they lack backside tools and tweezers/toothpick.

[Jothra]

The can opener isn't useful for deep-set screws, if that's the kind of thing you regularly encounter.

I've never managed to over-torque a can opener driver, but I'm sure it's possible.

As for the drawbacks of alox, you can't easily swap out beat up scales like you can with nylon or cellidor. Then again, alox really takes a beating.

[ElevenBlade]

there is one potential drawback to Alox - the backsprings are stiffer than their 91mm counterparts. 

Most of the time it's a good thing, to prevent accidental closure.  Sometimes when you want to do something quickly, its a bit of a pain - I sometimes lose my grip on a tool and it snaps shut, so take another two seconds to open it. 

I don't hear anyone else complaining about it, so maybe it's just me. And normally I don't mind it... but when I go back to a 91mm after a while....  its like butter...

[Wessaen]

there is one potential drawback to Alox - the backsprings are stiffer than their 91mm counterparts. 

Most of the time it's a good thing, to prevent accidental closure.  Sometimes when you want to do something quickly, its a bit of a pain - I sometimes lose my grip on a tool and it snaps shut, so take another two seconds to open it. 

I don't hear anyone else complaining about it, so maybe it's just me. And normally I don't mind it... but when I go back to a 91mm after a while....  its like butter...

I modded a Pioneer X for work by removing the blade and adding the Philips from a Spartan Lite.

The springs are the biggest issue as the Philips driver is now on a doubled-up spring which means its a bit of a nail breaker to open.

One of these days I'll open it up and tweak the springs but I mainly use it for the scissors these days so it's not a huge priority as I can use my pen to pry up the Philips if I really need it.

-Wes.

[Wessaen]

As for the drawbacks of alox, you can't easily swap out beat up scales like you can with nylon or cellidor. Then again, alox really takes a beating.

I dunno, I think my grandfather's OC Pioneer is a beaut in its worn down condition.

-Wes.

[Jothra]

I dunno, I think my grandfather's OC Pioneer is a beaut in its worn down condition.

-Wes.

Yes. Because alox can really take a beating.

Edit: that is lovely, by the way.

[nate j]

The end of the can opener is a superb flat Phillips.  The only real advantage of the inline Philips, as Jothra points out, is improved ability to handle recessed screws.

I've applied significant torque to the can opener/flat Philips on stuck/rusted screws with no issues.  Particularly with the beefier 93mm version, I don't believe you will need to worry about over-torquing it in anything resembling normal use.

The downsides to alox are no back tools, no scale tools, and generally limited tool and configuration options vs. the 91mm line.  The advantages of alox are thicker, sturdier tools and much higher resistance to physical, chemical, and thermal damage.

[comis]

Besides missing the inline phillips that is on 91mm, I also really miss the small blade of 91mm.  For my use, I actually use the small blade on 91mm most majority of the time, and the larger blade is occasionally used on food.

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

The tools are thicker than cellidor SAKs?

[Thunderpants]

Wessaen, that's an awesome bladeless SAK!

[comis]

The tools are thicker than cellidor SAKs?

The openers and large blade is beefier than the 91mm cousin.

[Brock O Lee]

From left to right: Alox, 91mm, 84mm... 

[Reinier]

Orange 91mm

[ElevenBlade]

The tools are thicker than cellidor SAKs?

yes

[ElevenBlade]

Besides missing the inline phillips that is on 91mm, I also really miss the small blade of 91mm.  For my use, I actually use the small blade on 91mm most majority of the time, and the larger blade is occasionally used on food.

This changes how the tool interacts with my unconscious activity on a day to day basis - in other words, how it interacts with me.  Sort of the way that a smartphone interacts with me the way a flip phone never did.  I've gotten used to it over the years, but noticed the difference in the SAK Stack challenge.  I'm more likely to use the SAK for simple things when I have the small blade.. which is fun.

[nate j]

With a 91mm, I tend to use the large blade for general use, and keep the small blade reserved for tasks that require an extra sharp edge.  With a 93mm, I tend to use the inline awl as a beater blade (opening packages, cutting zip ties, etc.), and save the edge on the main blade for tasks that really require it.

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Still haven't made a decision

[nate j]

My Farmer X came today.  If you're on the fence regarding the Farmer X vs. the Pioneer, the Farmer X provides significant added capabilities in a package that is still very pocketable.

[Ike582]

My Farmer X came today.  If you're on the fence regarding the Farmer X vs. the Pioneer, the Farmer X provides significant added capabilities in a package that is still very pocketable.

How does the weight difference feel in hand and pocket?  Is the difference readily discernible or not really?

[nate j]

How does the weight difference feel in hand and pocket?  Is the difference readily discernible or not really?

It's a noticeable difference, both in hand and in pocket.  The Pioneer is listed at 2.5 oz, and the Farmer X at 3.8 oz, so half again as heavy.

That said, I've carried and used quite a few different knives in my life thus far, everything from a Vic Classic weighing less than an ounce to large folders and fixed blades weighing 8 - 10+ oz.  My experience is that, within a reasonable weight range and assuming that carrying isn't causing any actual discomfort, it only takes a couple of weeks to get used to a change in weight.  Getting used to changes in thickness in hand and overall feel in hand (independent of weight) takes somewhat longer.

In my previous post, I didn't intend to imply that there wasn't a noticeable difference; only that (IMO):

• The additional weight and thickness of the Farmer X over the Pioneer is a worthwhile trade-off in order to gain the scissors and saw.
• Even the heavier, thicker Farmer X is still easily carried in a pocket.

 

[Ike582]

It's a noticeable difference, both in hand and in pocket.  The Pioneer is listed at 2.5 oz, and the Farmer X at 3.8 oz, so half again as heavy.

That said, I've carried and used quite a few different knives in my life thus far, everything from a Vic Classic weighing less than an ounce to large folders and fixed blades weighing 8 - 10+ oz.  My experience is that, within a reasonable weight range and assuming that carrying isn't causing any actual discomfort, it only takes a couple of weeks to get used to a change in weight.  Getting used to changes in thickness in hand and overall feel in hand (independent of weight) takes somewhat longer.

In my previous post, I didn't intend to imply that there wasn't a noticeable difference; only that (IMO):

• The additional weight and thickness of the Farmer X over the Pioneer is a worthwhile trade-off in order to gain the scissors and saw.
• Even the heavier, thicker Farmer X is still easily carried in a pocket.

 

I received mine today, and totally agree with your comments.  You can feel the difference, but if you have no issues carrying the Pioneer X, you won't with the Farmer X either.