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Help with dating officers knife

Offline JHAnd

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Help with dating officers knife
on: September 13, 2020, 09:33:39 AM
Hi there!

I’m new on the forum. I’ve just realised after browsing the SAK encyklopedia that an old knife I’ve had for a long time is actually a vintage ’officers knife’.

It’s a four pin version without bail. Any info appreciated!


ua Offline LeaF

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 10:10:37 AM

It’s a four pin version without bail. Any info appreciated!


Hi,


Sorry, but such questions doesn't have sense without pics.



gb Online Rizio Il Ghiro

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #2 on: September 13, 2020, 10:36:14 AM
As Leaf says, just post a few pics and the very knowledgeable members on here (not me I hasten to add, I’m no expert!) will surely be able to provide the answers!


Offline JHAnd

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 11:22:03 AM
Sure!






au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 12:47:11 PM
Wow - That is an old one for sure - And it's had a hard life!!  ..... That poor corkscrew!!

AwI I can say is pre 1945 due to the can-opener.

Someone else will get a lot closer  ....... Pictures of the tang stamps may help

Edit: And post 1942 due to the bottle opener on the screwdriver

So '42-'45
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 12:52:15 PM by Huntsman »


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #5 on: September 13, 2020, 12:56:22 PM
PS. It would be worth cleaning it up and giving it some TLC - It would come up nicely 

And maybe have a go at that corkscrew with some pliers


Offline JHAnd

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #6 on: September 13, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Wow - That is an old one for sure - And it's had a hard life!!  ..... That poor corkscrew!!

AwI I can say is pre 1945 due to the can-opener.

Someone else will get a lot closer  ....... Pictures of the tang stamps may help

Edit: And post 1942 due to the bottle opener on the screwdriver

So '42-'45

Ok, so the combo bottle opener/screwdriver was introduced 1942 and the single use can opener was discarded in 1945 then. Interesting, thanks Huntsman!  :)
Found the 91 mm tools evolution page http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#canopener I'm guessing that is your reference?

A couple of questions remain for me,

1.
I saw a YT video where a guy talks about the type 1909 versions introducing these changes;
- three pins/rivets holding the scales in place instead of four
- shield inlay as standard on every knife from then on (it was only an option before that)

So that YT video would suggest (if you ignore the bottle opener) that my knife is pre 1909 since it has 4 rivets and no shield!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJR39gBi1AY

2. The corkscrew only has 4 turns instead of 5 and is solid

3.
Another interesting note is that when I checked the tang stamps as per your suggestion, it says "MADE IN GERMANY". Germany! What the F***!

So could it be a german copy of a SAK from who knows what year?
Or is it a genuine pre 1909 with a replacement blade and can opener upgrade from Germany?
Or is it a genuine 1942-1945, and the guy in the YT video has wrong information?

 :think: :popcorn:

Edit: The wine opener is straight now after some bending with a set of pliers!

« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 05:49:27 PM by JHAnd »


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #7 on: September 13, 2020, 07:10:08 PM
This was my reference:    ;)
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.0.html

But that table started out from the SAAMS sheet    :tu:

You know what? I just assumed it was a Vic - But if it says made in Germany that is what it will be.
And now you mention it - It does not quite look like a Victorinox.
The German knife makers in Solingen made lots of pocket knives and some of them were Vic look alikes.


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #8 on: September 13, 2020, 07:47:15 PM
The overly large pivot peening on the large blade pivot raised a flag for me :D


Offline JHAnd

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #9 on: September 13, 2020, 09:41:31 PM
This was my reference:    ;)
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.0.html

But that table started out from the SAAMS sheet    :tu:

You know what? I just assumed it was a Vic - But if it says made in Germany that is what it will be.
And now you mention it - It does not quite look like a Victorinox.
The German knife makers in Solingen made lots of pocket knives and some of them were Vic look alikes.

It would have been cool if it was the real deal, but even though it probably is a German knockoff I still like it! I’m not a collector, I just like the aesthetic of old things. And since it probably isn’t worth much I can keep it without second thoughts about ebaying it for cash.

Thanks for helping me out!

By the way, what is a good way of cleaning it up? Toothbrush with bicarbonate?


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #10 on: September 13, 2020, 09:53:40 PM
Toothbrush with hand soap.
Dry out with compressed air

Oil with mineral oil and work the tools to have the oil sink in :tu:


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #11 on: September 14, 2020, 12:25:06 AM
It would have been cool if it was the real deal, but even though it probably is a German knockoff I still like it! I'm not a collector,
I just like the aesthetic of old things. And since it probably isn't worth much I can keep it without second thoughts about ebaying it for cash.
Thanks for helping me out!
By the way, what is a good way of cleaning it up? Toothbrush with bicarbonate?

Yeah - Good stuff - And nice to have you on board  :D   :tu:

And there are knock-offs and knock-offs.
The current day Chinese knock-offs of Vic models are usually really bad with thin steel and poor rivets/pins, and tools that bend and break
However the German cutlers made pretty decent knives and even made the Alox Swiss 1968 and German 108 Army Knife models.

I also use a fine-ish grade wire wool on those older models for cleaning up (especially inside) - The steel will take it.

Post us some pics when you are done!!  :tu:


Offline JHAnd

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #12 on: September 14, 2020, 01:13:35 PM
Yeah - Good stuff - And nice to have you on board  :D   :tu:

And there are knock-offs and knock-offs.
The current day Chinese knock-offs of Vic models are usually really bad with thin steel and poor rivets/pins, and tools that bend and break
However the German cutlers made pretty decent knives and even made the Alox Swiss 1968 and German 108 Army Knife models.

I also use a fine-ish grade wire wool on those older models for cleaning up (especially inside) - The steel will take it.

Post us some pics when you are done!!  :tu:


Thanks for having me, it's nice to be here!  :hatsoff:  :cheers:

I did a bit of cleaning with some wire wool soap, looks a lot less dirty, not perfect but hey, I don't mind it looking like an old knife because thats what it is   :)

I've started carrying it in the coin pocket on my jeans, fits perfectly.
Already used the reamer to make a hole in the bottom wooden part of a pull down curtain. Untied some knots with the corkscrew to reuse a piece of string for the draw cord. And the small blade came in handy too.





Offline JHAnd

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 01:19:13 PM
Toothbrush with hand soap.
Dry out with compressed air

Oil with mineral oil and work the tools to have the oil sink in :tu:

Thanks Mechanickal!  :tu:
Sprayed some 5-56 and worked the tools. The can opener is still really hard to get up from the folded position, but easy once it comes up a bit. The spring seems kind of stiff and its hard to get a good grip with my nails on the bit sticking out. Will perhaps improve over time.


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 01:25:23 PM
Nice job on the corkscrew - I was worried that it would break off

Yep you can definitely over clean and over restore a knife - They should look their age

But I reckon a bit more on this one ;)


gb Online Rizio Il Ghiro

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 01:48:58 PM
Good work, especially on the corkscrew!  As Huntsman says, a bit more cleaning on the tools won't hurt!


Offline JHAnd

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Re: Help with dating officers knife
Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 02:49:30 PM
Nice job on the corkscrew - I was worried that it would break off

Yep you can definitely over clean and over restore a knife - They should look their age

But I reckon a bit more on this one ;)

Yeah I was a bit worried too but couldn't resist trying!  :D

Though I had a bit of bad luck with the small blade just now...
seems the 5-56 has done it's job in both good and unfortunate ways. The good news is that the can opener now folds out quite easy. The bad new is that the small blade now all of a sudden pushes away the spring and jumps in between the spring and the stabilizer metal part on the other side. Then the blade can be rotated past the normal folded out position and meet up with mr corkscrew on the other side!

I'm thinking that I over-sprayed with the 5-56 so it now the friction in the rivets holding the knife together and the friction between the knife and spring is too small. The knife is a bit slanted from wear in the part that touches the spring, this slant now because of the 5-56 has less friction and the knife wants to slide out and push the scales apart.

So the 5-56 kind of revealed a wear problem. That's my guess.  :think:

If I hold the knife end with my fingers it doesn't happen.


EDIT: SOLVED... I peened the rivet with a ball hammer, now the small blade functions normally again!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 03:41:30 PM by JHAnd »


 

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