Most Efficient Folder Designs

[nate j]

Cutting efficiency can be subjective, and also highly dependent on material being cut and how a knife is sharpened.  Leaving that alone, then, I have a few different categories in mind:

• Best blade length to closed length ratio (standard handle)
• Best blade length to weight ratio (standard handle)
• Best blade length to closed length ratio (complex handle)
• Best blade length to weight ratio (complex handle)

I'd define a complex handle as one that is composed of at least two pieces, at least one of which extends or folds out in order to protect the blade edge.  While not common, this type of design can pay dividends when it comes to blade length to closed length ratio.  The Benchmade LFK is an example of this.

So called "folders" that have an unprotected edge when closed (thus requiring a sheath for safe carry) do not count.  IMO, these knives are gimmicks that incorporate the weaknesses of both folders and fixed blades while offering the advantages of neither.

Multi-blade knives may be considered.  However, the length of the longest blade will be used for calculations, not the sum of the lengths of all blades.

Which knives can you nominate?

[Etherealicer]

1 & 2 Benchmade Bugout
1 & 2 Boker Plus Brad Zinker FR

[cbl51]

Opinel number 8 garden knife.

Great blade to handle ratios light as a feather, almost, and cuts like the dickens. Or any of the Opinel slim series.

[Etherealicer]

Boker City Tools... yup... the hidden pin does not go through the blade layer, creating more room for a large and fantastic blade.

[sak60]

GB2

[Ray S]

Buck 186 Titan.All the advantages of a large lockback at about 1/2 the weight.Leave off the disassembly tool and the pocket clip for a very comfortable grip. Sadly they only made the take-down model for a year or two. They did come out with a non-takedown model(the 560 I believe)but those aren't easy to find and pricey when they are.

[ezdog]

I have to think the Endura is about right for efficiency overall if I understand what you mean by this......and I am not really sure that I do?
Lots of blade but not a lot of extra handle and really light weight as well.

[comis]

1. Best blade length to closed length ratio (standard handle)



CRK small Sebenza, I remembered the first time when I handle the knife, I was shocked to see how close is the edge enclosing inside the handle(and did worry I might get cut) and how the clip hiding just inside the handle.  But turns out it is perfectly a safe knife, and the blade shape/area vs handle area is pretty optimized.


1. Best blade length to closed length ratio (standard handle)
2. Best blade length to weight ratio (standard handle)



At bare 28g, basically the Deejo knife handle weights nothing.  But in fact, on of the 'handle' is actually a liner lock and this definitely is one of the most barebone knife I got.  In terms of blade-to-handle weight or blade-to-handle length, it's pretty maximized.


3. Best blade length to closed length ratio (complex handle)


The BM LFK is really interesting and gonna admit I never really look into that design.  But when I see the wording "complex handle", Arrakis is what comes into mind.


Some say it is just plain ugly, some think it is futuristic.  I think for the price, it is a very interesting collector piece, and makes good conversation.  Despite the weird shape, this knife is actually not uncomfortable to hold and could potentially be an alright user.  Pretty much just for your viewing pleasure.

[pfrsantos]

1. Best blade length to closed length ratio (standard handle)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
CRK small Sebenza, I remembered the first time when I handle the knife, I was shocked to see how close is the edge enclosing inside the handle(and did worry I might get cut) and how the clip hiding just inside the handle.  But turns out it is perfectly a safe knife, and the blade shape/area vs handle area is pretty optimized.


1. Best blade length to closed length ratio (standard handle)
2. Best blade length to weight ratio (standard handle)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
At bare 28g, basically the Deejo knife handle weights nothing.  But in fact, on of the 'handle' is actually a liner lock and this definitely is one of the most barebone knife I got.  In terms of blade-to-handle weight or blade-to-handle length, it's pretty maximized.


3. Best blade length to closed length ratio (complex handle)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
The BM LFK is really interesting and gonna admit I never really look into that design.  But when I see the wording "complex handle", Arrakis is what comes into mind.


Some say it is just plain ugly, some think it is futuristic.  I think for the price, it is a very interesting collector piece, and makes good conversation.  Despite the weird shape, this knife is actually not uncomfortable to hold and could potentially be an alright user.  Pretty much just for your viewing pleasure.

Agree, on awl items. The Sebenza was the first that came to mind. Have known the Deejo for some time now. Not very ergonomic to me, but I must admit they got it to the bare essentials.

 

[comis]

Agree, on awl items. The Sebenza was the first that came to mind. Have known the Deejo for some time now. Not very ergonomic to me, but I must admit they got it to the bare essentials.

 

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Spyderco Native/ Native 5

[nate j]

Wow, some interesting submissions and pics!

If I have some time this weekend, I'll get them into a spreadsheet and see how they compare.

[Old Boy]

Spyderco Chaparral lightweight?  I only have the CF and I swear they crammed in everything they could with no wasted space.

[Marcellus]

Both the Opinel and  Endura  were good suggestions.

I would add the Sodbuster for blade to handle ratio , and blade to weight ratio.

[nate j]

So, I had a few minutes today to crunch the data.  I eliminated the separate categories for complex handles, since we only had the single entry that qualified for those, and it didn't seem to really provide an advantage.  I also added a category to look at the difference (in inches) between the closed length and the blade length.  All lengths are in inches and weights are in ounces.

Without further ado, here are the results:

Best Blade Length/Closed Length Ratio

• Deejo Naked (small), 0.890
• Deejo Naked (large), 0.864
• A.G. Russell King of the Woods, 0.844

Best Blade Length/Weight Ratio

• Deejo Naked (small), 3.32
• Deejo Naked (large), 2.88
• Opinel No. 8 Garden Knife, 2.27

Smallest Difference between Closed Length & Blade Length

• Deejo Naked (small), 0.39
• Deejo Naked (large), 0.59
• Boker Brad Zinker FR, 0.63

While the Deejo is clearly a marvel of modern design, I don't know of anyone actually carrying one.   Full results are included below.  All three are the same data, just sorted by a different criterion.

[Marcellus]

Hmmm

I don't  no how secure I would feel actually USING the winner  of this exercise.

But,  that's  just my take from  viewing the pictures. I could be mistaken.

Interesting however.

Thanks for the time and effort Nate.

[comis]

Nate, thanks for doing the data crunching and putting it together.  Though I provided the Deejo as an entry, I too agree it's a really aggressive design and am too not sure it's all 'practical' to carry one.(To it's defense, the detent is decent, but like most things in life, probably it's better safe than sorry)

Having see SVL receiving his first Opinel and marveled at how light it was, I do think Opinel could be the real 'winner' (given if we are willing to mod it to shorten or thinning the handle slightly).  In fact, I just measured Opinel No 6 and I think it is worth mentioning too:

Opinel No 6

Weight 1.025 oz
Blade 72mm (2.83in)
Closed length 93mm (3.66in)

Blade/Closed Length ratio = 0.77
Blade/Weight ratio = 2.76
Closed Length/Blade ratio = 1.29

I have been doing this as a side project of my knife collecting, I think in general, any non-metallic handle knife should always have a weight(oz)/blade length(in) ratio less than 1(at least for me, whom like as lightweight as practically possible), otherwise it will feel really unnecessarily heavy in hand.

For fixed blade, if you could achieve around ratio of 1 for 4-5in blade, you will usually have a pretty well balanced knife in hand and would feel 'light' in handling.  But anything approaching ratio of 2-3, it will feel tip heavy like a chopper.

[SteveC]

Just because a knife is most efficient in design doesn't mean that it will be a good design in use or comfort.

[ezdog]

I truly do not understand what is meant here by the term "Efficiency"?

You can not learn much about many things in my experience by a simple crunching of numbers and as has been suggested I would sure not buy a knife based solely on some numbers but I am confused by the point or focus of what we are looking at here fundamentally too?

I am a simple caveman evidently

[comis]

I think the numbers Nate generated based on our data points has proven that most 'efficient' may not mean comfort or practical, and I even know that before buying for the Deejo that it will not be a 'practical' edc knife but more for rarity or novelty keepsake.(YMMV)

But I too do see the point of collecting these "numbers", in fact, I learn a lot about my preference on knives and especially balance and weight, after generating the data from my own collection.  I think most people do have preferences on what kind of knives they like, and if generating numbers from previous purchases could better guide them in future purchase, I think that's a pretty clever idea.


From the set of numbers, I think Nate could pick up few of the forerunners from the list if he wants to find a knife that has relatively lightweight while having a practical blade length, the Boker Brad Zinker and AG Russell Fruit Sampler seems quite promising, and if Nate like those style of knives, then he may have just found something useful from this exercise.

[ezdog]

I think the numbers Nate generated based on our data points has proven that most 'efficient' may not mean comfort or practical, and I even know that before buying for the Deejo that it will not be a 'practical' edc knife but more for rarity or novelty keepsake.(YMMV)

But I too do see the point of collecting these "numbers", in fact, I learn a lot about my preference on knives and especially balance and weight, after generating the data from my own collection.  I think most people do have preferences on what kind of knives they like, and if generating numbers from previous purchases could better guide them in future purchase, I think that's a pretty clever idea.


From the set of numbers, I think Nate could pick up few of the forerunners from the list if he wants to find a knife that has relatively lightweight while having a practical blade length, the Boker Brad Zinker and AG Russell Fruit Sampler seems quite promising, and if Nate like those style of knives, then he may have just found something useful from this exercise.

I am not suggesting or arguing against this idea really but I simply dont understand how comparing these numbers can give meaningful data points to help understand what one prefers.
I appreciate the explanation but it does not clarify the mystery for me really either?

Thanks for trying tough.

[Marcellus]

Comments above are interesting.

Let's say not all of us interpret "efficient " the same.

Nate's poll has merit,  but had different  meaning to each responder.

Each individual has their own limits  on blade length and  handle length/weight ratio. And don't  forget the comfort factor and usefulness.

Honestly , the winner of the exercise reminds one of a piece of jewelry, but a knife is a tool , to be used in a variety of tasks. But that's  just my take again.

So there ya go. No offense intended to anyone.

[nate j]

This exercise was, of course, primarily for fun.  It was never intended to suggest that these were the criteria on which carry selection should be based.  Certainly, no set of numbers can replace the experience of handling a knife when deciding if it is right for you.  This was merely an opportunity to appreciate the engineering that went into some of these designs, and to perhaps make some interesting observations.  To wit:

• Deejo managed to "win" by effectively minimizing the weight and length of the handle relative to the blade, but in the process designed a knife that none of us really want to carry or use.
• A.G. Russell often boasts of "squeezing in more blade than is typically found in a handle of this length" or something to that effect, and they backed up that claim with the three A.G. Russells taking #3, #4, & #5 spots behind the Deejos for highest ratio of blade length to closed length.
• The CRK Small Sebenza, considered by some the standard against which other folding knives are judged, did not score particularly well in any of these categories, suggesting (once again) that these criteria aren't what's critical.  The Spyderco Endura, perhaps the most popular knife on the list (we had a couple of Buck 110 variations on the list, but not a "stock" Buck 110) didn't fare particularly well either.
• The Buck 110 Slim Pro, which often finds its way into my pocket as I consider 3.75" of S30V steel with a solid-feeling handle in a 3.1-ounce package to be a lot of cutting power for the weight, did fairly well, especially among knives of comparable blade length.
• The slightly wonky tail fin of the Benchmade LFK did not give it any advantage when measured against these criteria.
• The Lionsteel CK01 is a pretty efficient design, especially for a knife that (somewhat) resembles a traditional slip joint.