The back-up theory

[Andetto]

Hello
A lot of us have backup saks/knives/tools.
I can never use a sak if I dont have another one saved in the knives box. Some models that I like even have more than one ( ) backup. Can someone who is still sane give some light on this? I know there is a fear of that loved model been discontinued. But whats the issue? I can find another love.

[Don Pablo]

2 is 1 and 1 is 0.

[Andetto]

2 is 1 and 1 is 0.

 

[Myron]

Hey Andetto,

I believe the thread you need is this one: 

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,82632.0.html

[Andetto]

Hey Andetto,

I believe the thread you need is this one: 

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,82632.0.html

True. Moderators please feel free to delete.

[Myron]

Hey Andetto,

I didn't mean to imply that your thread was redundant, just that you would surely be interested in that other one.  Sorry if it sounded that way.

Myron

[MacGyver]

Me, i don't think it's only the fear that will be discontinued, it's more like fear of damaging or loose it, and having to wait some time till i get a new one... It's reassuring that i can just go into my SAK drawer and just grab a brand new one out of the box... 

[Andetto]

Hey Andetto,

I didn't mean to imply that your thread was redundant, just that you would surely be interested in that other one.  Sorry if it sounded that way.

Myron

[Rich S]

Andetto wrote:

"Can someone who is still sane give some light on this?"

Anyone sane ?? On this forum, are you kidding ?

Rich

[MacGyver]

Andetto wrote:

"Can someone who is still sane give some light on this?"

Anyone sane ?? On this forum, are you kidding ?

Rich

 

[Andetto]

Andetto wrote:

"Can someone who is still sane give some light on this?"

Anyone sane ?? On this forum, are you kidding ?

Rich

I have come to the right place then.

[Boonies]

Andetto wrote:

"Can someone who is still sane give some light on this?"

Anyone sane ?? On this forum, are you kidding ?

Rich

Wait!!!  I am sane, I have a release certificate that says I am now 🤪.     

[FolderBeholder]

Wait!!!  I am sane, I have a release certificate that says I am now 🤪.     

Can you send me a copy?  I have some white out and a nice fountain pen to make one for me! 

[Aloha]

 

Me, i don't think it's only the fear that will be discontinued, it's more like fear of damaging or loose it, and having to wait some time till i get a new one... It's reassuring that i can just go into my SAK drawer and just grab a brand new one out of the box... 

 

I tend to feel a SAK that you've bonded with and EDC is a SAK that has the potential to be lost, stolen, broke, misplaced, or whatever, so having one ready to go is a good thing.  I have 2 Champions, one I take to work with me and one that is my home SAK that lives in a Skinth at home.  If I should loose my work Champ then I always have my at home Champ. 

I also have 3 Explorers.  One lives in a Skinth that is usually taken out with me on my off days.  Again if I should loose or whatever may happen this Explorer I have 2 at home.  Now none are NIB or anything close.  They do see use but as mentioned having one at home on my desk is reassuring. 

[Boonies]

Can you send me a copy?  I have some white out and a nice fountain pen to make one for me! 

I would, but they made it out in invisible ink so it couldn’t be copied......sanity security and all that 😜.       

[FolderBeholder]

I would, but they made it out in invisible ink so it couldn’t be copied......sanity security and all that 😜.       

[ElevenBlade]

Ok... I might have a different perspective on this topic... this week....   

I have a bunch of backups of models that I don't use.... and have no backups of the ones that I do use     That is, when it comes to SAKs

Oddly enough, I have some backups of Leathermans.  Mainly because of the variation in Leatherman tools - and their frequent and sweeping changes. 

To me.... Every Swiss Army Knife is special     The ones that aren't so important to me... I have extras of ... for example, I have 2 backup Climbers because they are a utilitarian toolset that I can rely on when I need a backup of my Compact, Pioneer X, Soldier.... anything.  Replacing my Compact with another Compact for whatever reason won't sit right with me.  I'd just switch to another one of my users and mourn the loss. 

I've misplaced quite a few folders in my day - and they had been discontinued.  I still kick myself for it.   

Part of the reason I like SAKs is that they are "timeless" and a change can be a good thing... and usually not too hard to adjust to.  (I say that now  )

Why the differences in my habits with different tools?  I think it's that .... No SAK is 100% perfect and they're all similar enough.  Whereas, with Leatherman, or my folders... each one has something unique that I refuse to give up - the covers on a traditional, the integrated wire cutters on the Wave, etc.

[Sos24]

2 is 1 and 1 is 0.

Me, i don't think it's only the fear that will be discontinued, it's more like fear of damaging or loose it, and having to wait some time till i get a new one... It's reassuring that i can just go into my SAK drawer and just grab a brand new one out of the box... 

Exactly.  I want a back-up in case something happens to my favorite SAK.  The discontinued also plays in because, my favorite is discontinued.

[dks]

I had a swisstool that was too shiny and pretty to use, so I bought another one to actually use and now I have two swisstools that are too shiny and pretty to use....

[Andetto]

I had a swisstool that was too shiny and pretty to use, so I bought another one to actually use and now I have two swisstools that are too shiny and pretty to use....

Now you have to buy a third one.
I do the same.
 

[powernoodle]

But whats the issue?

1) each of us has a subconscious mind boiling with angst and suppressed fear, anger, regret, etc.  It lives there right below our conscious mind, and is just itching to get out.  Maybe its our crappy job, or the realization that we will never play leapfrog with Emma Watson or walk on the moon.  It could be anything.  But our subconscious minds are train wrecks.  We try to keep the angst suppressed, because angst is painful.

2) to keep that angst fully suppressed, we engage in all manner of activities to distract ourselves.  Maybe we keep a super clean house.  Or lift weights too much.  Or get tats or play golf.  These activities, the ones which allow or require our attention, serve the purpose of distracting our conscious minds from the unconscious angst that is boiling to the surface.

3) for many of us, the act of loving, collecting and using SAKs, MTs, knives, lights, gun or Maxpedition bags is itself principally an act of distraction.  Consider the process.  We get on the forums daily. Distraction. We patrol the SAKs on Amazon.  Distraction.  We think about what the "best" EDC SAK is. Distraction.  We ponder what we want to buy, we order it online, we wait for it to show up, we use it and carry it and post pics of it on MTO.  Distraction, distraction, distraction.  And after we carry the new SAK or MT for a while, the buzz wears off.  The distraction is gone.  And invariably, we start the process over.  We then begin looking for the next SAK or EDC toy, and we are off to the races again.

4) when this process is repeated over and over for months or years or decades, some of us end up with a giant hoard of SAKs, MTs, etc. 

Ever watch My 600 lb Life on HULU or TLC?  Invariably, the 600 lb person had a terrible childhood, and they use food to do what?  Distract from the angst.  Suppress the angst.  We SAK guys are not much different, but we don't end up weighing 600 lbs in the process.  Our coping skills are more subtle.

Some of us do actually collect these toys, and some of us just own a SAK or two and leave it at that.  But for those of us with safe queens and purported "back up" SAKs, its really about the distraction.  Distracting ourselves with booze or hoarding or backup SAKs is part of the human condition.

[Rich S]

Angst, angst, angst. I need more angst - esp. the SAK and puukko kind (or any other sharp, pointy kind). Oh the angst !!
Rich

[Reinier]

I had a swisstool that was too shiny and pretty to use, so I bought another one to actually use and now I have two swisstools that are too shiny and pretty to use....

Exactly what happened to me

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,2881.msg2183241.html#msg2183241

[dks]

so pretty....

[ElevenBlade]

1) each of us has a subconscious mind boiling with angst and suppressed fear, anger, regret, etc.  It lives there right below our conscious mind, and is just itching to get out.  Maybe its our crappy job, or the realization that we will never play leapfrog with Emma Watson or walk on the moon.  It could be anything.  But our subconscious minds are train wrecks.  We try to keep the angst suppressed, because angst is painful.

2) to keep that angst fully suppressed, we engage in all manner of activities to distract ourselves.  Maybe we keep a super clean house.  Or lift weights too much.  Or get tats or play golf.  These activities, the ones which allow or require our attention, serve the purpose of distracting our conscious minds from the unconscious angst that is boiling to the surface.

3) for many of us, the act of loving, collecting and using SAKs, MTs, knives, lights, gun or Maxpedition bags is itself principally an act of distraction.  Consider the process.  We get on the forums daily. Distraction. We patrol the SAKs on Amazon.  Distraction.  We think about what the "best" EDC SAK is. Distraction.  We ponder what we want to buy, we order it online, we wait for it to show up, we use it and carry it and post pics of it on MTO.  Distraction, distraction, distraction.  And after we carry the new SAK or MT for a while, the buzz wears off.  The distraction is gone.  And invariably, we start the process over.  We then begin looking for the next SAK or EDC toy, and we are off to the races again.

4) when this process is repeated over and over for months or years or decades, some of us end up with a giant hoard of SAKs, MTs, etc. 

Ever watch My 600 lb Life on HULU or TLC?  Invariably, the 600 lb person had a terrible childhood, and they use food to do what?  Distract from the angst.  Suppress the angst.  We SAK guys are not much different, but we don't end up weighing 600 lbs in the process.  Our coping skills are more subtle.

Some of us do actually collect these toys, and some of us just own a SAK or two and leave it at that.  But for those of us with safe queens and purported "back up" SAKs, its really about the distraction.  Distracting ourselves with booze or hoarding or backup SAKs is part of the human condition.

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Brilliant.  And spot on.  And what is that folder that has the black blade with the topgraphic pattern?

I would add to your treatise the following concept - semiconscious response-reward loop and fear avoidance. 
It plays into my habits quite a bit.

I tend to be quite disappointed about certain MTs... maybe more than I should.  The original Leatherman Supertool is a good example.  That leads me to overthink a purchase - and either never buy it, or be disappointed yet again. 

Once I find something that works for me, even if it isn't "perfect" I'll get a bunch of them (Vic Climbers, Leatherman's with larger scissors).  First of all, I get them, because I'm avoiding the fear of losing them... not avoiding losing them... just the nagging sensation in my mind.  Quite immediately... that nagging goes away...  Purchase and feel better... Purchase and feel better... over and over again. 

Did I tell you I don't actually use a Vic Climber? 

Meanwhile... what really works for me, and what I really carry... I only have one of.  Why is that?  Part if why those are my favorites are because they are replaceable. 

I'm conscious of the feeling that I get when I get backups... so I do it several times.  That feeling is different from getting something new.  It has nothing to do with opening the box and playing with the knife - I don't even do that.  It's just the knowledge that I have it. 

[Andetto]

Brilliant.  And spot on.  And what is that folder that has the black blade with the topgraphic pattern?

I would add to your treatise the following concept - semiconscious response-reward loop and fear avoidance. 
It plays into my habits quite a bit.

I tend to be quite disappointed about certain MTs... maybe more than I should.  The original Leatherman Supertool is a good example.  That leads me to overthink a purchase - and either never buy it, or be disappointed yet again. 

Once I find something that works for me, even if it isn't "perfect" I'll get a bunch of them (Vic Climbers, Leatherman's with larger scissors).  First of all, I get them, because I'm avoiding the fear of losing them... not avoiding losing them... just the nagging sensation in my mind.  Quite immediately... that nagging goes away...  Purchase and feel better... Purchase and feel better... over and over again. 

Did I tell you I don't actually use a Vic Climber? 

Meanwhile... what really works for me, and what I really carry... I only have one of.  Why is that?  Part if why those are my favorites are because they are replaceable. 

I'm conscious of the feeling that I get when I get backups... so I do it several times.  That feeling is different from getting something new.  It has nothing to do with opening the box and playing with the knife - I don't even do that.  It's just the knowledge that I have it.

I can relate to this explanation. Since childhood, I always tend to get 2 of everything I like, sweets, toys, shoes, .etc. It have always made me comfortable to know I have a second one.
Some times I avoid buying an expensive item because I know I cant afford a double.
The strange thing is I dont use the loved thing as much as I use a less preferred one.
I still dont find a good justification for this attitude.

A good choice knife is enough to be owned and used. What is going to happen if the model/s I like are discontinued/ sold out/ vanished, I will be happy finding a substitute.

I dont remember how many times I said this will be my last sak to buy.

[Echotech]

Guilty! I tend to get spare copies of my fave SAK’s, one as a user and one in case I lose it or they stop making it. I usually try to get them second hand but in good nick and keep my eye out on Amazon for their seemingly random price drops. Sometimes I give them to friends or as Christmas or birthday presents.

This doesn’t explain why I have 11 (I think) cadets or numerous soldiers, but they’re purely a collection and only one cadet an actual user and a Pioneer instead of actually using the soldiers.

I really like clothes from the NZ outdoor company, Kathmandu. Some years ago they brought out a pair of pants (trousers) that I really liked, I ended up buying 3 pairs in different colours when on sale. Glad I did as they only lasted one season but a good 6 or 7 years later I still wear them. In their recent sale I just bought a pair of shorts and a shirt, they’re really comfy, so while the sale was still on I bought spares. Done this a few times.

In my case i wait until the sales and then do it, that’s not true of things I’m collecting as that’s usually down to availability.

Glad I have a spare ambassador for instance, there’s still plenty available online now, and must be many in the wild to go on the second hand market in future, but gives me some kind of comfort I suppose. It’s just the faves, (not including cadet and soldiers), so two of ambassador, compact, climber, huntsman, waiter, FX, PX and manager. Will get a spare bantam alox at some point. That’s enough I suppose

[Simon_Templar]

1) each of us has a subconscious mind boiling with angst and suppressed fear, anger, regret, etc.  It lives there right below our conscious mind, and is just itching to get out.  Maybe its our crappy job, or the realization that we will never play leapfrog with Emma Watson or walk on the moon.  It could be anything.  But our subconscious minds are train wrecks.  We try to keep the angst suppressed, because angst is painful.

2) to keep that angst fully suppressed, we engage in all manner of activities to distract ourselves.  Maybe we keep a super clean house.  Or lift weights too much.  Or get tats or play golf.  These activities, the ones which allow or require our attention, serve the purpose of distracting our conscious minds from the unconscious angst that is boiling to the surface.

3) for many of us, the act of loving, collecting and using SAKs, MTs, knives, lights, gun or Maxpedition bags is itself principally an act of distraction.  Consider the process.  We get on the forums daily. Distraction. We patrol the SAKs on Amazon.  Distraction.  We think about what the "best" EDC SAK is. Distraction.  We ponder what we want to buy, we order it online, we wait for it to show up, we use it and carry it and post pics of it on MTO.  Distraction, distraction, distraction.  And after we carry the new SAK or MT for a while, the buzz wears off.  The distraction is gone.  And invariably, we start the process over.  We then begin looking for the next SAK or EDC toy, and we are off to the races again.

4) when this process is repeated over and over for months or years or decades, some of us end up with a giant hoard of SAKs, MTs, etc. 

Ever watch My 600 lb Life on HULU or TLC?  Invariably, the 600 lb person had a terrible childhood, and they use food to do what?  Distract from the angst.  Suppress the angst.  We SAK guys are not much different, but we don't end up weighing 600 lbs in the process.  Our coping skills are more subtle.

Some of us do actually collect these toys, and some of us just own a SAK or two and leave it at that.  But for those of us with safe queens and purported "back up" SAKs, its really about the distraction.  Distracting ourselves with booze or hoarding or backup SAKs is part of the human condition.

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Very interesting thoughts. I don't think I agree that it is all down to fear or Angst, but I do agree our irrational focus on SAKs is just a way to distract our minds from other issues. Those issues must be negative somehow, otherwise we would not try to avoid thinking about them. But they could also be more mundane, like general ennui or a feeling that mid-life feels stale at times. Unfortunately, at this time and age, we all have been conditioned to believe that the quick flash of happiness that consumption provides is the answer, or purely material achievements such as having a collection of certain goods.

With all that said, I think it is not a major problem as long as we are mindful of this and are aware that this hobby of ours is just that, a distraction, and neither an answer to nor a workaround for our real issues (which we shouldn't be afraid to search and confront, even if that means admitting to ourselves that we also have bad and ugly sides which we would rather not see or admit to ourselves).

Otherwise we end up like certain (Ex-)Presidents who are unable to distinguish between weather and climate, or the poor souls who follow such a man because they think if someone just shouts out their own fears loud enough and offers simple answers, those fears might go away by themselves and won't have to be confronted.

[Poncho65]

Let's try to keep politics out of this please

[Altis]

No SAK is 100% perfect...

Farmer X in green alox and Woodsman (Explorer with wood saw):  Allow myselves to introduce.. myselves 





There are enough SAKs that are very desirable but no longer made. I feel that way about my Woodsman, which combines the Explorer and Huntsman for one of the best all-rounders. The Executive, which I only just discovered, has been discontinued along with the rest of the 74mm lineup. I know many people long for the Yeoman, Scientist, 84mm models with scissors, and other discontinued models.

Since these get discontinued extremely quietly, often just going out of stock and disappearing from the stores, there's the anxiety that if I don't get another one while I can, I absolutely cannot count on being able to get one later (though I feel more confident about certain super common models). If they were to alert us well in advance, that might alleviate some of that anxiety.

The other main reason to obtain backups is if you want to keep one in flawless condition, which could be either to enjoy it aesthetically or a special occasion carry, or perhaps as a future gift to someone. If part of the value is the beauty of the object, then I'm less inclined to use it -- but I would use a second copy of it. I might do this with my white Spartan PS someday if I get another one.

Even though I've only had this green Farmer X alox a week (which is what I've been hoping for since before the Farmer X existed), the store that had them custom made no longer shows the same thing being available (they have a large "Stauder" brand marking on them now). I already decided that this one will be a user because I like how the dark green wears, but I already wish I ordered a second to have one in mint condition since it's pretty much peak Victorinox for me. I guess I'll have to get a red one instead.