2 is 1 and 1 is 0

[Gareth]

Furthermore, you most likely don't hike alone, so redundancy is a given. In fact if your friends are gearheads as well then a bit of communication can save you kilos.

Exactly! 

[Alan K.]

I like the idea of redundancy more than the practice of it.  I'm generally not worried about needing backups when I'm home or running errands, but if I'm going to be away from home for a while, especially if there will be limited or no access to shopping, I have one bag that's always packed that has backups for everything from an extra pair of socks to multiple types of cordage, lights and batteries, and a tube of shoe goo.  That's not my EDC bag, it's more like a weekender.  It's too much to carry on me, but it's no extra effort to throw the bag in the vehicle. Being able to glue the sole back on my shoe for example has saved me a few times. Having the contingency bag makes uncomfortable conditions bearable.  I just don't need it with me all the time.

[pomsbz]

As a wedding photographer (decade plus) my mantra was always 'backup, backup, backup'. You can't ask the couple to get married tomorrow cause you just broke your camera. I've had lenses stolen from behind me by a waiter, broken lenses and cameras during gigs and realised my battery charger wasn't working only because none of my batteries were actually holding charge. I had backups for everything and after two cameras failed on me during a single wedding, I added a third. I've had gear couriered to me from a rental house during a wedding because I was already using my backup and what if that failed?

I could sense the presence of Murphy two weeks before a gig.

Most of my EDC simply doesn't fit into the above category though. Murphy turns up when you will be screwed if he plays his tricks. If it won't make much difference, he doesn't bother. You can live without a knife, you can borrow a phone, etc. Of course if you don't have some gear in your bag you will end up needing it but again, I'm not sure EDC is particularly that 'mission critical' to require a consistent backup strategy. My Rambler backs up my Spartan and if I didn't have either, I could probably manage. Heck I didn't carry any knife for decades and somehow survived.

Hiking/Camping of course would require more thought but if you have the skill set and other items can multitask, you can provide a good 'murphy' strategy without going crazy. Fixie/folder and a SAK for example. Each has its own distinct task and requirement but at a pinch they can fill in for the other. The smartphone is an excellent example of this. It's a phone. But it can be backup for your GPS, your flashlight, etc.

[ElevenBlade]

As a wedding photographer (decade plus) my mantra was always 'backup, backup, backup'. You can't ask the couple to get married tomorrow cause you just broke your camera. I've had lenses stolen from behind me by a waiter, broken lenses and cameras during gigs and realised my battery charger wasn't working only because none of my batteries were actually holding charge. I had backups for everything and after two cameras failed on me during a single wedding, I added a third. I've had gear couriered to me from a rental house during a wedding because I was already using my backup and what if that failed?

I could sense the presence of Murphy two weeks before a gig.

Most of my EDC simply doesn't fit into the above category though. Murphy turns up when you will be screwed if he plays his tricks. If it won't make much difference, he doesn't bother. You can live without a knife, you can borrow a phone, etc. Of course if you don't have some gear in your bag you will end up needing it but again, I'm not sure EDC is particularly that 'mission critical' to require a consistent backup strategy. My Rambler backs up my Spartan and if I didn't have either, I could probably manage. Heck I didn't carry any knife for decades and somehow survived.

Hiking/Camping of course would require more thought but if you have the skill set and other items can multitask, you can provide a good 'murphy' strategy without going crazy. Fixie/folder and a SAK for example. Each has its own distinct task and requirement but at a pinch they can fill in for the other. The smartphone is an excellent example of this. It's a phone. But it can be backup for your GPS, your flashlight, etc.

 

Then there's batteries.  I will never forget as long as I live.  On our first family camping trip a million years ago, we forgot batteries and one of our flashlights went out prematurely.  Fortunately, we could share... but it was a lesson learned early enough. 

[Echotech]

I used to write music for TV. About 15 years ago I was working against the clock to get the score out on a Sunday night for the show going to air that Wednesday - still had to go via the production team, final sound mix etc so needed a tight turnaround (Forensic Investigators, was on C7 in Australia, gets repeated on cable around the world from time to time if anyone’s interested )

We’d been working on it all week and I’d back it up to FireWire drives, USB drives were less reliable then. We’d just about finished when the computer crashed and also one of the external back up drives fitzed. That was 2 copies lost, luckily I had it backed up to a third, my music partner always thought I was crazy, not that day.

I’d learnt my lesson a few years before when nearly a years worth of work was lost, been obsessive ever since.

I don’t carry spares of edc just cos I’m leaving the house, but anything longer I like a back up. EG I might carry a AA lumintop torch in a maxpedition pouch, I don’t carry 2 but I’ve got a nitecore TIKI or TUBE on my keychain, that kind of thing. Main SAK/LM in the pouch, rambler on the keychain

[Etherealicer]

My Maintenance consists of making sure that I have charged batteries in lights where I can use them and decent batteries in the lights that use disposable primaries.

I have never considered using the phone as a light and hope I never will.

I have had various lights fail me for sure of all kinds and different reasons and of course batteries run down though they were topped off and ready to go when I started out for the day.

I have a Zebralight SC64w in my right pocket always and another 18650 light on the other side always too usually something that throws better than the ZL.

I also carry an 18650 headlamp

I also have 2-cr123 lights like the Olight S-Mini and 4/7 Mini Ti always on keychains in each pocket and then I also have my Skinth on the Bat Belt with a Jetbeam AA and Milwaukee 2aaa light there.

I have to carry spare batteries and it is just as easy to just carry them in the backup light in the end and that just makes it all more simple anyway if needed.

Obviously it is more work than not carrying all of this but I have been stranded in the dark too and it is worth whatever it requires for that to never happen again if I can help it period.

There is literally no difference at all between carrying other tools to do my job as the lights are part of what I need so of course I carry them.

(Image removed from quote.)

First off, I would not consider a flood- and a throw-flashlight to be redundant, as they serve different purpose. Kinda like 2 sizes of flat-driver, you might get away with the wrong size in some circumstances, but it is better to have the right size.

The rest I don't understand.
Do you charge all those batteries every night? Sounds like a lot of work. Also, have you ever considered upgrading to a flashlight with more capacity? I was just looking at the Nitecore R40 V2. 11h 30min @ 200 lumen (sure that is lab condition, but that sounds like more than enough for a day). Also, you can re-charge the light during your lunch break (just put a battery-pack in your lunch box). And to top it off, that is not a large flashlight.

[ReamerPunch]

Two is one, and one is none. Yes, I used to employ this mentality when it came to sandwiches, wraps, and cheeseburgers.

[ezdog]

First off, I would not consider a flood- and a throw-flashlight to be redundant, as they serve different purpose. Kinda like 2 sizes of flat-driver, you might get away with the wrong size in some circumstances, but it is better to have the right size.

The rest I don't understand.
Do you charge all those batteries every night? Sounds like a lot of work. Also, have you ever considered upgrading to a flashlight with more capacity? I was just looking at the Nitecore R40 V2. 11h 30min @ 200 lumen (sure that is lab condition, but that sounds like more than enough for a day). Also, you can re-charge the light during your lunch break (just put a battery-pack in your lunch box). And to top it off, that is not a large flashlight.

I dont understand what you do not understand?

I charge the batteries as needed which might be once a week and might be every night depending on what I used them for.
The 18650 lights have great capacity which is really why I carry them but this does not mean I wont carry more than just one,that is the whole point!
I have a charger in the office at home and I charge my phone and watch there at night and it is not any trouble at all to stick a few batteries in to charge at the same time.
I have spares in the truck for every battery and spare primaries for the lights that need those.

I forgot to mention that I also have larger area lights by Milwaukee that use my standard 12v and 18v tool batteries and these can light a room easily for a while on a fully charged battery too but are not pocketable either so I do not rely o them when crawling through an Attic for instance where my hands might be filled with other tools that I need for the work.

Have you ever been in a basement of a huge commercial building or in a dark attic or in an NFL Training Facility at night like my picture shows?
If you have and you find yourself without a working light for any reason at all I will bet you would make sure that this never happens again!?!

You asked for clarity on the idea of 1 is none and I am simply baffled that you can not comprehend this really?

I have many pockets and many small lights and it is just no chore for me to be certain that I can have light.

[BadMechanic]

Im very much pro 2 is 1 1 is 0.
Its not uncommon for me to have more than 1 LM at any given. Ive in fact needed more than 1 more time than I can count. Doesnt stop with tools though.

Currently, I have 1 vehicle. Its in for repair. Now I have 0 

[nate j]

"2 is 1 and 1 is 0" is a gross oversimplification.

However, for each piece of gear and situation, I think it makes sense to consider:

• What are the odds I will need this piece of gear?
• What are the odds this piece of gear will get lost, get broken, run out of fuel/power, or otherwise not be available/functional when it is needed?
• If the gear is needed and it isn't available or isn't functional, what are the consequences?
• Will I have other gear that, while not an exact backup, functionally overlaps?
• What is the feasibility of carrying a backup?

A few examples:

• Lighters - My lighters see a fair bit of use, from lighting my cigars to melting the ends of paracord to lighting campfires, stoves, lanterns, candles, fireworks, etc.  Odds I'll use the lighter are high.  Because they run on fuel, there is a 100% chance that a regularly used lighter will run out of fuel eventually.  I've experienced this multiple times, especially with my torch lighters.  I also tend to lose, loan, or gift the disposable ones as well.  At a minimum, I'd be pretty annoyed if I needed a lighter and didn't have a functioning one.  Lighters are small and lightweight, and the disposable ones are also cheap.  Carrying a backup is easy, and I generally have two or three lighters in my pockets.
• Knives/MTs - Mine see regular use, but around town it's mostly trimming cigars, opening packages, etc.  Odds I'll use it are fairly high, but odds quality gear of this type will be lost or broken is low.  Like a lighter, I'd be aggravated if I needed it and didn't have it, but odds of it being a life-or-death matter are low.  I'm comfortable with just a SAK around town, and that was all I carried for years.  These days, I'm more likely to be carrying two or three knives/MTs, but that is more because I enjoy them than because I really need that many.  Hiking or camping, I'll have a SAK and a fixed blade, at a minimum.  This is a good example of two pieces of gear that, while I don't carry a backup for either exactly, there is obviously a functional overlap.
• Flashlights - I've worked in buildings before where, if the power went out and you didn't have a flashlight, you were going to be stuck there until either the power came back on or someone with a flashlight came to find you.  I'm also aware of cases where folks were forced to spend an unexpected night in the woods because they either got lost or their hike simply took longer than planned, and they weren't out of the woods before darkness fell and couldn't continue because they couldn't see and didn't have a light.  If this happens in the summer, most likely they emerge with nothing more than a story to tell and a better appreciation for being prepared, but in the winter, the stakes can be higher.  Obviously, the greatest risk to a functional flashlight is the battery running down (which of course is guaranteed to happen sooner or later).  If I don't really anticipate needing a flashlight, I'm usually OK with only one.  If I believe I will need a flashlight (camping, hiking, working at night, etc.), I'll have at least two or three.  However, these might be my key chain light, a larger handheld light, and a headlamp, so again, overlap but not carrying exact duplicates.  In spelunking (certainly a situation in which being caught without a light could become very serious or even life-threatening), the general rule of thumb is that each member of the party carries at least three separate, independent light sources.  Extra batteries, while not a bad idea, do not count as a separate, independent light source.
• For camping, things like extra tents, extra sleeping bags, extra pairs of boots - If you have the gear and you're car camping for week, might not hurt to have it along.  If you're packing all your camping gear on your back, you simply can't carry spares of those sorts of things.

[comis]

I used to write music for TV. About 15 years ago I was working against the clock to get the score out on a Sunday night for the show going to air that Wednesday - still had to go via the production team, final sound mix etc so needed a tight turnaround (Forensic Investigators, was on C7 in Australia, gets repeated on cable around the world from time to time if anyone’s interested )

We’d been working on it all week and I’d back it up to FireWire drives, USB drives were less reliable then. We’d just about finished when the computer crashed and also one of the external back up drives fitzed. That was 2 copies lost, luckily I had it backed up to a third, my music partner always thought I was crazy, not that day.

I’d learnt my lesson a few years before when nearly a years worth of work was lost, been obsessive ever since.

I don’t carry spares of edc just cos I’m leaving the house, but anything longer I like a back up. EG I might carry a AA lumintop torch in a maxpedition pouch, I don’t carry 2 but I’ve got a nitecore TIKI or TUBE on my keychain, that kind of thing. Main SAK/LM in the pouch, rambler on the keychain

 

When it comes to digital data security, I am totally on the same boat as you.  I am subscribed to the 3-2-1 backup plan, and one of the backup means is a RAID 10 NAS for extra security.  We live in time when many of our memories are captured digitally(or converted to digital), and generations of photos/videos rest on my hard disk(many relatives even entrusted their data with me).  If there is ever a fire, I know for sure the first physical thing I would grab is probably the hard disk(which is a hefty 12T, but still removable).

I dont understand what you do not understand?

I charge the batteries as needed which might be once a week and might be every night depending on what I used them for.
The 18650 lights have great capacity which is really why I carry them but this does not mean I wont carry more than just one,that is the whole point!
I have a charger in the office at home and I charge my phone and watch there at night and it is not any trouble at all to stick a few batteries in to charge at the same time.
I have spares in the truck for every battery and spare primaries for the lights that need those.

I forgot to mention that I also have larger area lights by Milwaukee that use my standard 12v and 18v tool batteries and these can light a room easily for a while on a fully charged battery too but are not pocketable either so I do not rely o them when crawling through an Attic for instance where my hands might be filled with other tools that I need for the work.

Have you ever been in a basement of a huge commercial building or in a dark attic or in an NFL Training Facility at night like my picture shows?
If you have and you find yourself without a working light for any reason at all I will bet you would make sure that this never happens again!?!

You asked for clarity on the idea of 1 is none and I am simply baffled that you can not comprehend this really?

I have many pockets and many small lights and it is just no chore for me to be certain that I can have light.

Sometimes it is not just about the battery, but in case something goes wrong with the circuitry/led or what have you, it is nice to have a backup--and whatever little weight penalty there is, I am more than willing to pay it.

[comis]

Two is one, and one is none. Yes, I used to employ this mentality when it came to sandwiches, wraps, and cheeseburgers.

   It's hard to fathom this coming from someone doing so well on the weight loss challenge, but I totally share the same sentiment. 

[Old Boy]

It’s been hinted but this philosophy is used extensively in the military and I can see its use in other stressful fields such as nursing, LE, etc.
For EDC I’ve never had to practice that philosophy, though I would carry duplicates but only because what I’m carrying is multifunctional and unintentionally overlap in some tools.
But when I go hiking I do intentionally carry back ups. I did have an experience where I lost a knife and was glad my MT had a blade.
To me I think that when it comes to lights and blades it’s always good to have back ups no matter what. After which depending on your environment (camping - fire) or occupation (LEO, Nursing, etc.) I would imagine best to have a back up your most used tool. In case you forget or lose it.

For me working in the office - I carry 2 pens 

[Gareth]

"2 is 1 and 1 is 0" is a gross oversimplification.

However, for each piece of gear and situation, I think it makes sense to consider:

• What are the odds I will need this piece of gear?
• What are the odds this piece of gear will get lost, get broken, run out of fuel/power, or otherwise not be available/functional when it is needed?
• If the gear is needed and it isn't available or isn't functional, what are the consequences?
• Will I have other gear that, while not an exact backup, functionally overlaps?
• What is the feasibility of carrying a backup?

A few examples:

• Lighters - My lighters see a fair bit of use, from lighting my cigars to melting the ends of paracord to lighting campfires, stoves, lanterns, candles, fireworks, etc.  Odds I'll use the lighter are high.  Because they run on fuel, there is a 100% chance that a regularly used lighter will run out of fuel eventually.  I've experienced this multiple times, especially with my torch lighters.  I also tend to lose, loan, or gift the disposable ones as well.  At a minimum, I'd be pretty annoyed if I needed a lighter and didn't have a functioning one.  Lighters are small and lightweight, and the disposable ones are also cheap.  Carrying a backup is easy, and I generally have two or three lighters in my pockets.
• Knives/MTs - Mine see regular use, but around town it's mostly trimming cigars, opening packages, etc.  Odds I'll use it are fairly high, but odds quality gear of this type will be lost or broken is low.  Like a lighter, I'd be aggravated if I needed it and didn't have it, but odds of it being a life-or-death matter are low.  I'm comfortable with just a SAK around town, and that was all I carried for years.  These days, I'm more likely to be carrying two or three knives/MTs, but that is more because I enjoy them than because I really need that many.  Hiking or camping, I'll have a SAK and a fixed blade, at a minimum.  This is a good example of two pieces of gear that, while I don't carry a backup for either exactly, there is obviously a functional overlap.
• Flashlights - I've worked in buildings before where, if the power went out and you didn't have a flashlight, you were going to be stuck there until either the power came back on or someone with a flashlight came to find you.  I'm also aware of cases where folks were forced to spend an unexpected night in the woods because they either got lost or their hike simply took longer than planned, and they weren't out of the woods before darkness fell and couldn't continue because they couldn't see and didn't have a light.  If this happens in the summer, most likely they emerge with nothing more than a story to tell and a better appreciation for being prepared, but in the winter, the stakes can be higher.  Obviously, the greatest risk to a functional flashlight is the battery running down (which of course is guaranteed to happen sooner or later).  If I don't really anticipate needing a flashlight, I'm usually OK with only one.  If I believe I will need a flashlight (camping, hiking, working at night, etc.), I'll have at least two or three.  However, these might be my key chain light, a larger handheld light, and a headlamp, so again, overlap but not carrying exact duplicates.  In spelunking (certainly a situation in which being caught without a light could become very serious or even life-threatening), the general rule of thumb is that each member of the party carries at least three separate, independent light sources.  Extra batteries, while not a bad idea, do not count as a separate, independent light source.
• For camping, things like extra tents, extra sleeping bags, extra pairs of boots - If you have the gear and you're car camping for week, might not hurt to have it along.  If you're packing all your camping gear on your back, you simply can't carry spares of those sorts of things.

That is an excellent summation of how I feel as well.

[pfrsantos]

That is an excellent summation of how I feel as well.

Really?!

[Gareth]

Really?!

(Image removed from quote.)

 

summation
Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
sum·ma·tion  (sə-mā′shən)
n.
1. The act or process of adding; addition.
2. A sum or aggregate.
3. A concluding argument after the presentation of a legal case, especially an argument made to a judge or jury by an attorney for a party as to why that party should prevail.
4. Physiology The process by which multiple or repeated stimuli can produce a response in a nerve, muscle, or other part that one stimulus alone cannot produce.

Maybe not the best use of the word but I stand by it. 

[pomsbz]

summation
Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
sum·ma·tion  (sə-mā′shən)
n.
1. The act or process of adding; addition.
2. A sum or aggregate.
3. A concluding argument after the presentation of a legal case, especially an argument made to a judge or jury by an attorney for a party as to why that party should prevail.
4. Physiology The process by which multiple or repeated stimuli can produce a response in a nerve, muscle, or other part that one stimulus alone cannot produce.

Maybe not the best use of the word but I stand by it. 

Yup, it's correct usage of the term in the English language.

[Gareth]

Yup, it's correct usage of the term in the English language.

Cheers pombz. 

[Altis]

I certainly subscribe to it when it comes to owning backup SAK models (in my view, 3 is one, 2 is none, and 1 means you owe someone)  I generally only carry a second SAK to expand capability (ie. Classic SD Alox and Spartan), but rarely for redundancy.

For me, it's simply a matter of a simple risk assessment:  What is the likelihood I'll need a backup, and how serious is the impact?

The more important, the more likely I'll have a backup, unless it's extremely unlikely to have a failure/loss. Only thing I add is that if it's negligible amount of trouble to carry an extra, I probably will anyways (like having the Classic SD Alox in my wallet which I barely notice but like that it's there). For EDC, I don't employ redundancy -- only for situations like travelling or outdoors.

I can't say I relate much to the importance so many put on lights as EDC. Perhaps it's because I'm in town, but my phone is by far the best solution for me as I'm certain to have it on me, and well charged, any time I leave the house. If I had a dedicated flashlight, I'd either forget it or it would be dead when I go to use it. So many flashlights now days slowly drain the battery even when not in use, and it's one more device I don't feel like babysitting.

I could see carrying one in certain situations, like working in certain buildings or parts of buildings where there are no backup lights during a power outage, or living outside the city. I do keep a crank-chargeable flashlight in the car and house.

Really good light are very satisfying to use, though -- I have two very bright ones for cycling, one on the handle bars and one on my helmet, so I can always see what's in my path and wherever I look (redundancy happens to be a perk but not the reason for two).

I do try to maintain my night vision though (along with very good spatial sense) so it has to get quite dark or I have to be searching for something for me to need one. I've even gotten quite good at spotting my black cat in near-darkness (much easier if he's moving in some way).

[pfrsantos]

Cheers pombz. 

Sorry, you guys are right. I took it as "summary". It was way too long for that...

 

[pfrsantos]

Sorry, you guys are right. I took it as "summary". It was way too long for that...

 

[pfrsantos]

Soooo... getting back to this concept and its application to multiple situations, has anyone ever tried this:

"Honey, come here. There's something I'd like to ask you..."