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Question for drill press owners 688

No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Question for drill press owners
« on: December 27, 2020, 09:47:35 AM »
I am planing to buy a drill press with a 16mm drilling capacity. Though, it looks like  my initial project is gonna  require me to drill a 20mm hole into a piece of brass with a thickness of 1 inch (2.5 cm). I do not think I'm gonna need to bore holes of this diameter after this project; also 20mm presses are costly and quite bulky for my space, hence my question:

Can I get that 16mm press, install a larger chuck, if needed, and use a 20mm drill for this one project only?  Would this damage the press somehow (the motor or the shaft maybe?)

Second (bonus question): I would like to use a milling bit with this drill press for vertical use only. Is this doable -again- without damaging the machine?

Global Moderator He Who Has The Most Nuts, Wins! Posts: 52,588
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2020, 02:12:31 PM »
:popcorn:
Just Bananas Posts: 75,750
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2020, 02:57:13 PM »
There are drill bits available that have a large drill and a thinner shaft so that you can still use a smaller Chuck but drill big holes
This set has 15,16,17,18,20mm bits and these can be used in a standard size drill Chuck



And a 25mm one

« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 03:06:08 PM by Wspeed »

fail to prepare prepare to fail
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2020, 03:59:10 PM »
There are drill bits available that have a large drill and a thinner shaft so that you can still use a smaller Chuck but drill big holes
This set has 15,16,17,18,20mm bits and these can be used in a standard size drill Chuck

(Image removed from quote.)

And a 25mm one

(Image removed from quote.)

Wow I wasn't aware of these!  :hatsoff: thank you
Admin Team Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,934 I brake for cake
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2020, 04:02:06 PM »
You'll need a bit of torque and a slow cutting speed to drill that sort of hole, but I think that a regular drill press should be OK.  A big drill bit with a reduced shank like in Speedy's picture is the best way to do it - or you could use a holesaw if you're drilling a hole all the way through the material.  Start with a centre punch to locate your hole, then a centre or spotting drill to start off, then stage drill up in 5mm or so increments.  Then you won't overload the drill motor by trying to remove too much material in one go.

Make damn sure your workpiece is properly clamped in a vice too.

As for milling cutters, I wouldn't...  End mills will plunge into material but slot drills will not, and neither is as good as a drill bit for this kind of operation, especially in a drill chuck - which doesn't grip a milling cutter as securely as a proper collet and won't be running concentrically enough.
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2020, 06:47:36 PM »
You'll need a bit of torque and a slow cutting speed to drill that sort of hole, but I think that a regular drill press should be OK.  A big drill bit with a reduced shank like in Speedy's picture is the best way to do it - or you could use a holesaw if you're drilling a hole all the way through the material.  Start with a centre punch to locate your hole, then a centre or spotting drill to start off, then stage drill up in 5mm or so increments.  Then you won't overload the drill motor by trying to remove too much material in one go.

Make damn sure your workpiece is properly clamped in a vice too.

As for milling cutters, I wouldn't...  End mills will plunge into material but slot drills will not, and neither is as good as a drill bit for this kind of operation, especially in a drill chuck - which doesn't grip a milling cutter as securely as a proper collet and won't be running concentrically enough.

aha... Thank you  :salute:
No Life Club Posts: 1,592
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2020, 09:51:06 PM »
Try looking into "annular cutters". They don't waste time and energy cutting out the center but instead just cut out a ring the size of the hole you want. Much more efficient, faster and with less demands for powerful machinery. I tend to use them for anything from about 13-16mm and upwards. Buying one of these will be cheaper than buying a bigger machine just for one hole.

Beware that many if not most comes with mounts for magnetic drills. (Short ends with flat squarish features). They do exist with other mounts too though. (Get one with carbide tips, use a little lubrication, and enough pressure to keep it cutting - not crazy pressure or they will dig in, get stuck, and your very heavy work piece might still surprise you by rotating into your valuables. A totally hypothetical situation of course  ::)).

Another option altogether is pressing the holes. Works very well for plates and sheets, and faster and more economical than drilling. Depending on your scenario that might be interesting or not interesting at all.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 09:56:10 PM by Vidar »

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2020, 07:59:25 PM »
Try looking into "annular cutters". They don't waste time and energy cutting out the center but instead just cut out a ring the size of the hole you want. Much more efficient, faster and with less demands for powerful machinery. I tend to use them for anything from about 13-16mm and upwards. Buying one of these will be cheaper than buying a bigger machine just for one hole.

Beware that many if not most comes with mounts for magnetic drills. (Short ends with flat squarish features). They do exist with other mounts too though. (Get one with carbide tips, use a little lubrication, and enough pressure to keep it cutting - not crazy pressure or they will dig in, get stuck, and your very heavy work piece might still surprise you by rotating into your

Another option altogether is pressing the holes. Works very well for plates and sheets, and faster and more economical than drilling. Depending on your scenario that might be interesting or not interesting at all.

Wow this is an awesome idea! Thank you so much, just what I need! I didn't know these cutters existed.

Quote
valuables. A totally hypothetical situation of course  ::)).

noted  :D :D :salute:
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,977
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2020, 09:23:04 PM »
How exact does the hole have to be?
Would a hole saw not be precise enough?

Everything’s adjustable
No Life Club Posts: 1,592
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2020, 02:39:58 AM »
Wow this is an awesome idea! Thank you so much, just what I need! I didn't know these cutters existed.

I have no idea why they aren't more common - they are on the expensive side, but they make making big holes very easy and clean.

I think there are some with straight shank and based on the same principles that works with normal drills. That said most magnetic drills seems to come with a chuck for these, and as most magnetic drill have MT2 mount that chuck can be used on most bench drills and similar too. Thus you might want to look for a magnetic drill chuck or a cheap (used) magnetic drill - that will allow you to use all the standard annular cutters for magnetic drills on everything MT2.

One machine consideration is that it should be fairly rigid, so the cheapest wood working drill presses might wobble too much. (I haven't tried with those so no idea where the actual limit is).

Sparky, they are pretty much just holes saws for metal. My experiences with classic hole saws (drillbit in center, sawtooths around) in metal isn't all that great - on the other hand I don't really have good experiences using these annular cutters in wood either. I guess they complement each other for different materials.

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2020, 04:40:28 PM »
How exact does the hole have to be?
Would a hole saw not be precise enough?
Hole saws don't do precision, is that what you mean?
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2020, 04:45:03 PM »


I have no idea why they aren't more common - they are on the expensive side, but they make making big holes very easy and clean.

I think there are some with straight shank and based on the same principles that works with normal drills. That said most magnetic drills seems to come with a chuck for these, and as most magnetic drill have MT2 mount that chuck can be used on most bench drills and similar too. Thus you might want to look for a magnetic drill chuck or a cheap (used) magnetic drill - that will allow you to use all the standard annular cutters for magnetic drills on everything MT2.

One machine consideration is that it should be fairly rigid, so the cheapest wood working drill presses might wobble too much. (I haven't tried with those so no idea where the actual limit is).

Sparky, they are pretty much just holes saws for metal. My experiences with classic hole saws (drillbit in center, sawtooths around) in metal isn't all that great - on the other hand I don't really have good experiences using these annular cutters in wood either. I guess they complement each other for different materials.

I have considered magnetic drills for a very short time:) Them seem to be... Much too exotic for my use. I like their portable nature but I need something I can work on metal and wood, and magnetic ones are metal-only? A second hand magnetic drill chuck sounds like a good option to consider, though. I thought they had regular chucks. Thank you.
Full Member Posts: 164
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2020, 10:03:17 PM »
Remember, when cutting brass you should also modify the drill to have negative rake or it will grab.

And keep the cutting oil on it.

tools is what defines us as humans
No Life Club Posts: 1,592
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2020, 10:38:07 PM »

I have considered magnetic drills for a very short time:) Them seem to be... Much too exotic for my use. I like their portable nature but I need something I can work on metal and wood, and magnetic ones are metal-only? A second hand magnetic drill chuck sounds like a good option to consider, though. I thought they had regular chucks. Thank you.

A magnetic drill can certainly use normal drill bits too - so wood is not a problem. I'm just saying annular cutters are less than elegant in wood in my experience.

There is nothing stopping you from putting a regular Jacobs drill chuck in a magnetic drill as most support MT2 mount which is the same as most bench drills anyway. My suggestion was rather the other way around: Get a chuck for annular drills (Weldon) and use that in a normal drill press. Or simpler yet, get an annular cutter with a straight shank and put in a regular Jacobs chuck. (Edit: Being aware that Weldon chucks likely were chosen over Jacobs chucks because they support higher torque. A ø20mm hole is unlikely to be issue for Jacobs chucks though).

As for magnetic drills they usually come with a MT2 mount. Thus you can put on almost any MT2 accessories you want - Jacobs chucks, Weldon chucks, cone shaft drill bits, MT collets, mill holders, saw holders, boring heads, center or edge locators, expandable arbors, chucks, end mills, threading equipment ... The list goes on - the world of MT mounts is old an diverse. (Of course all these will also fit MT2 mount drill presses or lathes for that matter).

(Turning a magnetic drill into a stationary one is easy enough by the way. Put it on something rigidly mounted magnetic with some room under. Place the spindle over the edge or through a hole you make. Then you stick whatever non magnetic material you need holes in under and treat it like a regular drill press for those occasions where that is needed).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 11:42:11 PM by Vidar »

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2021, 08:25:14 PM »
Remember, when cutting brass you should also modify the drill to have negative rake or it will grab.

And keep the cutting oil on it.

Thank you for mentioning the rake, I'm noting this down.

A magnetic drill can certainly use normal drill bits too - so wood is not a problem. I'm just saying annular cutters are less than elegant in wood in my experience.

There is nothing stopping you from putting a regular Jacobs drill chuck in a magnetic drill as most support MT2 mount which is the same as most bench drills anyway. My suggestion was rather the other way around: Get a chuck for annular drills (Weldon) and use that in a normal drill press. Or simpler yet, get an annular cutter with a straight shank and put in a regular Jacobs chuck. (Edit: Being aware that Weldon chucks likely were chosen over Jacobs chucks because they support higher torque. A ø20mm hole is unlikely to be issue for Jacobs chucks though).

As for magnetic drills they usually come with a MT2 mount. Thus you can put on almost any MT2 accessories you want - Jacobs chucks, Weldon chucks, cone shaft drill bits, MT collets, mill holders, saw holders, boring heads, center or edge locators, expandable arbors, chucks, end mills, threading equipment ... The list goes on - the world of MT mounts is old an diverse. (Of course all these will also fit MT2 mount drill presses or lathes for that matter).

(Turning a magnetic drill into a stationary one is easy enough by the way. Put it on something rigidly mounted magnetic with some room under. Place the spindle over the edge or through a hole you make. Then you stick whatever non magnetic material you need holes in under and treat it like a regular drill press for those occasions where that is needed).

Aha... thank you!  :salute: :salute: So many things to learn about these, it seems. This is gonna be my first drill press, so I'm quite a newbie about this tool
No Life Club Posts: 1,592
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2021, 10:48:21 PM »
We all have to start somewhere. And there are plenty of other directions and interest to follow, so we can't get around to everything anyway.

If you should come across a nice little mill that can often be an upgrade from a pure drill press depending on your use. And don't underestimate the quality of old industrial or trade equipment - some old used ones will totally run circles around new stuff at the same price point.

If you consider magnetic drills the main downside as compared to say a bench press is the magnetic drill's typically low maximum RPM. So if you want to use sanding rolls, make lots of tiny holes or similar that might be a consideration too.

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,677
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2021, 02:28:33 AM »
I am planing to buy a drill press with a 16mm drilling capacity. Though, it looks like  my initial project is gonna  require me to drill a 20mm hole into a piece of brass with a thickness of 1 inch (2.5 cm). I do not think I'm gonna need to bore holes of this diameter after this project; also 20mm presses are costly and quite bulky for my space, hence my question:
Another option: If you'll never need to drill that size hole again you could just take the piece to your local engineering firm (the smaller the better), they might do it for nothing or for a packet of biscuits for morning tea.  :cheers:

No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2021, 08:22:44 PM »
We all have to start somewhere. And there are plenty of other directions and interest to follow, so we can't get around to everything anyway.

If you should come across a nice little mill that can often be an upgrade from a pure drill press depending on your use. And don't underestimate the quality of old industrial or trade equipment - some old used ones will totally run circles around new stuff at the same price point.

If you consider magnetic drills the main downside as compared to say a bench press is the magnetic drill's typically low maximum RPM. So if you want to use sanding rolls, make lots of tiny holes or similar that might be a consideration too.

Kind words, thank you  :)

Aaah, I dream of mills. Do you follow Adam Savage's Youtube channel Tested? I fell in love with mills (and metal lathes) watching dozens of videos there. Prior to that, I didn't care much abt them.

And I thought second hand (even maybe third) industrial equipment would be in horrible shape because of all that heavy use for years?
No Life Club Posts: 1,393
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2021, 08:26:41 PM »
Another option: If you'll never need to drill that size hole again you could just take the piece to your local engineering firm (the smaller the better), they might do it for nothing or for a packet of biscuits for morning tea.  :cheers:

eheheh smartest (and cheapest!) idea!

BTW I managed to reach my goal. I used LOTS of patience, my largest drill bit which had a way too small diameter but still, some hole enlarging bits, lots of Dremel sanding cylinders and round hand files. It took me about a day, though  :D :D :dunno:
No Life Club Posts: 1,592
Re: Question for drill press owners
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2021, 02:58:00 PM »
Kind words, thank you  :)

Aaah, I dream of mills. Do you follow Adam Savage's Youtube channel Tested? I fell in love with mills (and metal lathes) watching dozens of videos there. Prior to that, I didn't care much abt them.

And I thought second hand (even maybe third) industrial equipment would be in horrible shape because of all that heavy use for years?

I've seen his channel once or thrice - I don't follow it as such. For small scale machining, machines and prototyping there are other channels like Stefan Gotteswinter, This Old Tony, Joe Pieczynski, MrPete222, Abom79, Swisstoolmaker, Dan Gelbart (great!), Fireball Tool, Blondihacks, NYC CNC and many more - youtube will likely dig out lots of similar ones by itself.

You can certainly get stuff that is in bad condition, but you can also find machines that has spent their life at a prototype lab, university or forgotten in some corner. Industrial production has moved on to computer controlled turning and milling centers long time ago, so any manual stuff you come over is likely not heavily used anymore. The breakdown order is typically software, outdated interfaces, electronics and last mechanics. Manual machines mostly consist of the latter. Most of these were built to take heavy use so even that might not really be a problem.

I have mostly good experiences with buying used industrial machines - the issues I've had has not been with the machines as such but dismantling and freight. So that is something to be aware of. The machines and accessories should be packed and treated like precision instruments and similar to  eggs in transport, but the transporters usually fall well short of that.

If you can see and check the machine before you buy, and ideally pack and or freight it yourself, then you know what you get anyway.

"Simple is hard"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).

 

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