New Ka-Bars

[Edi]

Hey guys!
Any experience with new Ka-Bars? I mean those bought really recently from new stocks. No specific model. Are those knives still ok, or did they cut corners in ht, etc?
Thank you very much!

[comis]

Edi, have you heard any 'bad news' about their heat treat? 


I have a few Ka-Bar/Becker knives, some I used and some for collection purpose, so far it didn't occur to me there's any issue or problem.  All these years, I have heard nothing but praises about them doing a good job with 1095.  Is there anything you read/see that raise the question?

[Aloha]

No new KaBar but I do have a BK2 that I got used and decently used.  I also beat on it a bit after giving it a hair popping edge.  NO issues to report at all.  The edge held up well and is still razor sharp.  I've also only heard great things about KaBar heat treat.  Owners seem to beat the snot out of their knives only for them to ask for more. 

I would not hesitate to pick up one.  Is there one in particular your are interested in? 

[sak60]

The newest Kabar I’ve had was a 2012 version of the USMC. Did wood splitting and all manner of things with no problem.

[Edi]

Thanks guys! Atm, let's say i'm not sure yet what to think about the new blades they produce. I'll see in the next 2 weeks or so 

[Spartan19]

Hey guys!
Any experience with new Ka-Bars? I mean those bought really recently from new stocks. No specific model. Are those knives still ok, or did they cut corners in ht, etc?
Thank you very much!

Still a great company, I can't speak for the overseas models, but the olean blades are still top notch, I have a black handle usmc that I use for brush work, and it's a beast you won't have any trouble with kabar

[Edi]

Well, now i have more facts. Thing is i didn't manage to break a kabar usmc in kraton, bought some years ago, although i slightly abused that knife. Nor did i manage to break a large heavy bowie which i definitely abused. Those were the beaten knives from kabar.
But last weak, i broke 2 potbellys. And they have "huge meat". Thick, wide... the first, held up chopping and broke at the third strike when batoning. The second, held up batoning, but broke at first strike when chopping. Took me a total of 10-15' of tests for both. So yeah... btw, they're going to retire the model. Found out.
Now i played safe to retest the brand. Gave it a try to the mark1. Held up. Tomorrow i'll baton it through some old oak, but chopping oak, the blade is intact and splitting/battoning pine worked flawlesly. I do not expect the same hard work from that blade, as i've expected from the potbelly, so the test is going to be softer, but so far it held up. If i'm pleased with it, i'll give a try to the bk2. And that one, i am really going to push. For that weight, it should be able to split wood, regardless of what type. Otherwise, why carry a brick?! Btw, potbelly with that little blade and sheath, around 820g. Huge weight. Potbelly alone 530g. And the pics and thank you very much 🍻

[Top-Gear-24]

I'm beginning to see a pattern here...

But I should probably listen to Lennon and McCartney and just "let it be".

[Aloha]

That is some thick blade stock.  I have seen one snap at the choil from Tac ( youtuber ) and that looks about where yours also broke?     

[Edi]

Yep, both blades broke in the same spot.

[Aloha]

Those little choils rather than the larger ones for a finger seem to be weak spots.  If you look around I think there were a few that broke in that spot.  Still a fail and surprising with 1/4 inch 1095CroVan.  There seems to be very good grain structure on the broke pieces too ( my years watching Forged in Fire ).  No black spots or inclusions.  I can't wait to hear what happens with a BK2.  I've seen the same youtuber TAC beat on a $9 knife with vengeance.  I would not hesitate to feel Ka-Bar/Becker does one heck of a heat treat on their blades and the BK2 should survive. 

 

[comis]

I think not only the thickness of the stock would help with 'batoning' but there are probably a few more factors at play whether a blade could survive the batoning.

I remember seeing Ethan Becker once talked about it on youtube, explaining batonning at his home/workshop.  And IIRC, whether the blade has the elasticity to spring back in shape is rather important as well(those torture test where people trying to break the blade in half by a bending it side way).  If the blade is too rigid, even with really thick stock, it will still break in half/chip since the blade may not have the springiness to conform to the shape needed to get through the section. 

So I think geometry of the blade/steel choice/toughness/heat treat, along with technique and luck, are probably all important, sometimes we may tend to baton larger wood when the blade is longer but if the stock thickness is the same, a BK2 will probably have better chance to survive the batoning since it is shorter and relatively stouter.

[chip]

I'm beginning to see a pattern here...

But I should probably listen to Lennon and McCartney and just "let it be".

[Edi]

Pattern. I hope. It's only my writing, so i'm actually hoping i'm consistent.
I'm not praising up companies. I'm being positive or negative about them.
But for the f fanboys, if i'm not praising, i have reasons.

[Edi]

The mark1 knife held up without actual issues. Only thing i noticed, was at the guard. New, the guard was tight on the blade. Now, after some rough stuff, there is a visual thingy. Some space between the guard and the blade. There I'm going to put a poxipol sleeve, in order to strenghten that part, just in case. Because rougher stuff than in the testing period, I don't actually forsee in real life use. Photo of that thingy attached.
Warranty for the potbellys was without issues, fast and complete. I'm definitely going to buy other knives from ka-bar.

[Edi]

I think not only the thickness of the stock would help with 'batoning' but there are probably a few more factors at play whether a blade could survive the batoning.

I remember seeing Ethan Becker once talked about it on youtube, explaining batonning at his home/workshop.  And IIRC, whether the blade has the elasticity to spring back in shape is rather important as well(those torture test where people trying to break the blade in half by a bending it side way).  If the blade is too rigid, even with really thick stock, it will still break in half/chip since the blade may not have the springiness to conform to the shape needed to get through the section. 

So I think geometry of the blade/steel choice/toughness/heat treat, along with technique and luck, are probably all important, sometimes we may tend to baton larger wood when the blade is longer but if the stock thickness is the same, a BK2 will probably have better chance to survive the batoning since it is shorter and relatively stouter.

You, are right. Batoning with a knife is a delicate thing to do. I broke no Morakniv while batoning. And the pieces of wood I do my tests on, are wrist size. But old, hardened oak. Why did those 2 break and so clean, no idea. But there is something wrong there. And the second held up batoning perfectly. I was enchanted. Almost didn't believe it break up on chopping. Ka-bar got the blades. Edge and spine intact, just a clean, like glass, breakage. Well...
Bk16 will be next. Bk2 seems to... not a knife.

[Top-Gear-24]

On second thought, scr*w Lennon and McCartney...

I got a bit suspicious after reading your post in another topic, see quote:

... My first Wingman had issues with the scissors. Replaced it. My second one was actually put to the test. It developed some issues here and there. Ok, found its limits, it will be replaced. And then i'll mod it a little, and give up the warranty. So, i'm a happy customer who'll probably buy more LM products. With a Rebar it was the same. Issues found, replaced without too many talking/writing.

And now you post this:

The mark1 knife held up without actual issues. Only thing i noticed, was at the guard. New, the guard was tight on the blade. Now, after some rough stuff, there is a visual thingy. Some space between the guard and the blade. There I'm going to put a poxipol sleeve, in order to strenghten that part, just in case. Because rougher stuff than in the testing period, I don't actually forsee in real life use. Photo of that thingy attached.
Warranty for the potbellys was without issues, fast and complete. I'm definitely going to buy other knives from ka-bar.

So, here's what I think...

You buy a tool/knife and the first thing you do is put it through this self invented series of tests, going from pretty normal stuff way up to bordering insanity.

If the tool brakes, you use the warranty to get a new replacement tool, and now you know how far you can push that particular tool.

I've got no problem with someone pushing a tool/knife out of its normal use to see how far he can go.  But when afterwards, you use the warranty to get a replacement tool/knife, that's abusing the warranty in my own (and probably foolish naive) opinion, something all the other costumers pay for when they buy a tool from the same company, since, believe it or not, free warranty replacements are never free... Someone's always paying the price, and it's not going to be the CEO of the knife/tool brand.

And I can't say that I really appreciate you  labelling anyone who disagrees with you as "fanboys" either...

Oh, and if any of this comes over a bit rude, it must be because English isn't my native tongue either, language barriers right...? 

[Edi]

Hey, TG. (And sorry i will touch some other companies on the way, because of the points here🙂 ) You are partially right. I do tests, "self-invented" stuff (because i use the tools, nobody else does it for me) in order to see what tools i can rely on, and what tools will be just sitting in a... wherever i find a place for them. Let me take this mark1 knife. The blade itself has, for me and for some of my uses, such a great geometry, that i want to have a custom one made. With a different steel and with a different tang. Steel, because industry evolved; tang, the same. From cold steel i have a leatherneck. Same overall idea as in the ka-bar usmc and mark1. But way better construction. If you'll have both in hands and you'll try them, you'll see. Ka-bar got stucked in history and without the becker knives, you tell me, what's ka-bar now?! Not much, except the military contracts. Even the late kochanski who appreciates morakniv says ka-bars are weak. I didn't break mora's, btw.
Now, let's get down to me abusing knives. Well, i have esee's. I pay for that warranty in the knives price and i didn't break one of those. In my tests. And, to reiterate: those tests are not real use of the tool. Because i never was in that situation. To have to get the most everything out of that specific tool. But, i do want to know if the tool, any tool, i'm taking with me can be stressed. And till what point.
I have ontario's. Didn't break them. I didn't break the ka-bar's untill those 2. And if you hold a potbelly, you'll see it's huge. Wide, thick... but look at those 2 photos. Like glass it broke. 530g/knife on my scale. And a shape of a parang. What is the purpose of that knife, cutting rope, slicing tomatoes!? Even the designer says you can chop and baton with it.
How i pushed the lm wingman, it was cutting hard wire. And that was it. It began to tremble everywhere after that. The other lm's i have do that just fine. Even the small rebar cuts harder wire than the wingman can just dream off. They become a little more stiff afterwards, but that's it.
The spirit xc wasn't used, basically and i still don't have it back.
Another thing, my latest complaints regarding a package are with lionsteel. I don't recall writing something here. I told them. Because it is the overall construction of their sheath for the m7 and not something else, like in: the knife itself is junk... or warranty sucks and so on.
You, got me somehow either really wrong, or your expectations from a company are really low.
If i'll remember something else, i'll comeback also 🤣
But the mark1, i improved a little on slicing

[Edi]

And as for the fanboys: any person who forgets that here we should all be users and customers. And nobody wants to hear excuses for the companies, as long as the person writing didn't say he is an official for that specific brand and is entitled to represent that company everywhere. Even if i'm crazy enough to drive a x tonage truck over a knife, i shouldn't be seeing anything else, than: 1: dude, what the?! 2: you're nuts, 3: waste of money, man and so on. Not by far should someone have to be put in the corner because others are content with the specific company's policies. I was put in a corner because i don't like some stuff from some. And i can't see why... coming from people with no interests, because they didn't come upfront as such
I hope i was clear this time.

[Top-Gear-24]

And as for the fanboys: any person who forgets that here we should all be users and customers. And nobody wants to hear excuses for the companies, as long as the person writing didn't say he is an official for that specific brand and is entitled to represent that company everywhere. Even if i'm crazy enough to drive a x tonage truck over a knife, i shouldn't be seeing anything else, than: 1: dude, what the?! 2: you're nuts, 3: waste of money, man and so on. Not by far should someone have to be put in the corner because others are content with the specific company's policies. I was put in a corner because i don't like some stuff from some. And i can't see why... coming from people with no interests, because they didn't come upfront as such
I hope i was clear this time.

Clear...? 

To be honest... 

Not really... 

(well, not for me anyway, but that might just be me since I've had a very hard day at work, my wife is the only one in her medical team who's not infected with Covid-19, her 6 other colleagues all tested positive during the last 3 weeks, and we just lost a family member yesterday, anyway, your post gave me a headache to be honest, but again, that's probably just me)

Anyway, it's not my intention to drag this discussion out much further, so here are my final thoughts.

First, you don't pay for your warranty replacement, you pay for a part of it, along with a hundred others who pay, let's keep it simple, 1 Euro extra for their tool to compensate for the one 1 guy in a 100 who makes use of the warranty.

If you would've paid for the warranty alone, your Wingman would've cost double of what it costs now, so no...others are also paying for your "destruction" tests.

And let me see if I got this right, defending a brand should only be done by people who work for that brand, not by customers who've had other experiences than you with that certain brand and are willing to share those experiences here to show that, what you're saying isn't how it always goes...

So you've had a problem with a Victorinox warranty claim (which, in my opinion, is still 90% certain your country's distributor's fault), but the 10 people who claim that they always had great experiences with Vic warranty are obviously fanboys and should just shut up since they are not employees of Victorinox...?

I really despise the random use of the word fanboy.

What can I say, my experience with Vic warranty was top notch (free, no questions asked,  it only took 3 months, but I've never made a secret out of that either). My warranty experiences with Leatherman on the other hand range from:

Great (my Crunch had a flaw right out of the box, got a new one, free, no questions asked, had to wait 3 or 4 weeks for it)

Bad (my Surge, scissor spring broke after cutting two pieces of paper, had to insist to get a new one, and had to pay 17 euro shipping, only to recieve a scratched one with oversharpend knife back, send it back, again 17 Euro, finally got a new one)

To "non existing" (bought a  Charge TTi, and noticed that both handle rulers went from 10cm to 19cm, contacted Dutch distributor who politely told me to get lost, contacted Belgian distributor who told me to pay 15 Euro "administration fee" since the tool was bought in the Netherlands, or else get lost...)

Funny thing, when I e-mailed that last story to Leatherman U.S.A., they felt so bad they send me a freeT-shirt and some stickers  , which shows the part a distributor can play in all of this.

What I'm trying to say is, I own different brands of tools and knives, and I will share my experiences  with anyone who's interested, even if my experiences are different than yours.  Just as you do, but yet you don't hear me accusing you of being a Leatherman fanboy, now do you?

I have nothing to do with either Victorinox nor Leatherman, and I can't even share my opinion on Ka-Bar since I don't own any of their products (I do own a lot of Mora knives, and others, but no Ka-Bar, not yet...).

Just try to understand that, for some reason, you had a bad experience with Victorinox, be it Victorinox's fault, or the distributor's, or h*ll, just a case of bad luck...

This does not mean that anyone who claims different is lying, or being a fanboy (I really hate that word, I have to go was my mouth now  ).

Not trying to stir things up, or turn this into an endless discussion, I've explained my view on things, and I respect yours.

Let me quote Frank Zappa who said "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open".

Greetings  .

[Edi]

Damn, TG, we could actually get along 😏
Sorry for your bad moments. Hope everything will get right for you. Not done, but right. Really. It's crappy now. It is was it is and everyone should hope for the best.
Thank you for your latest input, it made things more clear. It is appearing that luck is the thing. Everywhere.

[Edi]

Mark1 vs potbelly. First, wins. Didn't break, didn' anything else than expected. Didn't push it that far, but i hope that is understndable. Good knife for some of my stuff! Made an entire stew with it. From buying all the vegetables, to simmer them. And the meat that came along. Working. Batoning some firewood: working. I could give that knive as a present. Paint job... good stuff on the mark1 (gook work to a lot scrap it away), was easy on the potbelly.
Pos Scriptum for the spirit xc. Don't have it.

[Top-Gear-24]

Damn, TG, we could actually get along 😏
Sorry for your bad moments. Hope everything will get right for you. Not done, but right. Really. It's crappy now. It is was it is and everyone should hope for the best.
Thank you for your latest input, it made things more clear. It is appearing that luck is the thing. Everywhere.

Thanks for the kind words  .

While I'm a firm believer that a good discussion is sometimes necessary, I believe respect for someone else's opinion is even more important.

And while I've had some serious discussions in my past (and will probably have more in my future), I can really lose sleep over something I've said or typed that I should've handled different.

And I'm a happy man when, after the discussion, you can agree to disagree and have a drink together  .

Just wish politicians around the world would feel the same (not dragging politics into this, just sayin  .)

Anyway, I'm not going to derail this topic any further, but maybe you should post some pics of these knives, most people here love to see pics, I know I do  .

[Edi]

Potbellys

[Edi]

One still had the paint all over it. Mark 1 is coming

[Edi]

Mark1

[Edi]

The poxipol glue collar is at the base of the blade. I hope it'll take some of tje stress off, from that 90° tang.

[Edi]

In the meantime, another kabar died 
That's it, for me.