On the Tradition of Traditional Knives - or - Who's Tradition is it?

[ElevenBlade]

I've always had an interest in Traditional folding knives.  Since I was a youngster - Norman Rockwell artwork and older folks in my town got my attention with traditional knives (TK).  My grandfather used to have penknives and he gave me one; always two-bladed with stainless handles.  You see, the more experienced guys always said that you can do anything with a blade...  you don't need screwdrivers and all that.  So I thought to myself...  "Ok, so which blade?" 

Camillus knives had been my first adventure into TK, unbeknownst to me.  The knife section in the old Boy Scouts catalog gave somewhat more descriptive names to a selection of BSA issued models which otherwise were known only within the Camillus number system.  I didn't get one until decades later, but I remember guiding a friend through the beginning of a whittling hobby.  I suspected that the BSA Whittling knife would be a good option - not knowing that it was the ubiquitous Stockman from Camillus with a BSA logo and a more task-oriented name.

Fast forward to years later.  I still admire the pictures on MTo week after week. I still go through phases where I plan to get a traditional knife or three - and get pulled out of the rabbit hole the moment I use a screwdriver.  Then I get to thinking - why don't I have the same affinity toward modern folders or fixed blades?  These are the actual knives of my day - not the TK. 

Ask almost anyone in the last 20 years - What pocketknife did you get?  What should I get?  What do you have with you? - It's bound to be a modern folder.  Even if it's a Buck, it's going to have a thumb stud.  Even a fixed blade for a camping kit, will be an inexplicable skeletonized only-tang handle wrapped in paracord.  No "natural" covers on the handle to speak of.  Why? Quite simple. really.  It's what's readily available.  My father picked his 3-blade Stockman out of a catalog.  My grandfather picked his penknife out at the shop.  My camping buddies picked theirs out of the display case at the sporting goods store.  That's where I got my first Leatherman too. 

What is it about traditional knives?  The more I think about it, the more I realize that it's not my tradition that they harken back to.  The way "we" used to do things in my day was with "dedicated folders" and a Leatherman (actual brand notwithstanding). 

A generation from now, what will a Traditional knife be?  What will come of TKs?

Discuss.

[Barry Rowland]

I don't see them going away.  My boys grew up in a SAK household, and my oldest got me into traditional knives.  Even my youngest son carries a Benchmade Proper, which seems pretty close to a Sodbuster to me.  As I read once somewhere, our admiration of the old isn't a longing for it, but an appreciation of the real.  In my opinion, trads are made from real things, like carbon steel, wood and bone.  They have a warmth to them no gourmet knife will ever have.

[Aloha]

There is a whole new generation of young people that are loving traditional folders.  I see some are buying up old stuff while others are buying up iterations of old patterns or remakes of old patterns.  Depending how old ones dad is some young people are harkening to that time when they recall dads knife.  Others have to go back a generation to grand dad.  Some have uncles they recall carrying a traditionals.  Whatever the reason there is a resurgence if you will in traditional pocket knives. 

You can see some sell out rather quickly by certain makers.  As folks go through the many phases of knife buying many come back to the familiarity of these traditional knives.  Those who dont have this familiarity come to traditional knives by way of others or the Internet or curiosity.  You don't have to have grown up knowing about these knives to appreciate them enough to buy one.  Things tend to come full circle even if the circle didn't include you.  Traditional knives have been around well before many of us and as such the circle now includes us. 

Being in any "knife community" also has a way of influencing our buying or interests. 

I didn't grow up wit dads or grand dads or males for that matter carrying these type knives.  It was movies, magazines, and curiosity of sharp things that initially got my attention.  Later it was pictures of traditional knives on the internet.  What finally got me was deciding to buy one.  While traditional knives aren't my part of my personal past per se its part of our past as far as cutlery goes.     

[comis]

I think I am in a similar boat.  I never did grow up with a 'traditional' knife nor did I see any around me.  The closest thing was the Buck imitation I got when I was really young, and I had a lot of fond memories using that knife.

Fast forward many decades, I started paying attention to traditional when I see all these beautiful pictures from all the enablers here.  But to be honest, I wasn't all too impressed with the quality/design/construction when I first got my feet wet with Case, Queen(pre-closing) or Boker.  The material, QC and F&F just wasn't what I expect from that price range.  However, all that prospective changed once I tried on GEC.  And more that I learn about their craftsmanship, more I grew to appreciate their brand and traditional.

I think there's a major comeback from traditional in last couple of years, thanks to brand like GEC and restrictive knife law in different countries.  Material, style, trend may change in time, but I think the demand and appreciation of great craftsmanship will only continue to grow, and hopefully, someday we will see more well crafted products in traditional like GECs, that'd be lovely.

[ElevenBlade]

Interesting discussion, all 

The point about the quality of the various brands makes sense to me ... I find myself looking at some of the cheaper brands because they continue to make the styles that I like... I guess that makes me guilty of looking for a particular aesthetic over a good quality knife.  Hence my internal debate on the subject. 

The new and updated versions of these knives... like the Benchmade Proper... or a Buck with a thumb stud... That's part of what got me thinking about this...  The look and feel of a bone or stag cover on a knife, seems to be a special kind of tradition (I'm probably speaking more of my personal tastes than I realize).  I wonder if that will slowly phase out - but certainly, companies like GEC have kept up supply, and as you point out, there's no shortage of interested buyers. 

Having this sort of community, and seeing all these nice pictures does have a way of influencing one's tastes. 

[Barry Rowland]

It sure does 11 . My collection of knives and multi tools has multiplied a good bit since finding the Forum.  Comis brings up a good point about laws and knives.  A good many traditional knives fly under the legal radar.

[dks]

In my family and many that I know people would carry a simple folding knife and it would be usually SS, a basic penknife. Some SAKs for the wealthier.

In many situations it was even a basic plastic/wooden/horn handled friction folder, again in SS

The idea of traditional, in English language forums, tends to be guided by the US, and to lesser extend the UK view of traditional knives, like UK origin Barlows and the various US patterns.

There is also the push to use/accept/love/worship Carbon steel (non-stainless) because this is what people say their parents carried.

This surprises me as all the people I remember carrying and the ones I still see carrying knives (they could be in their 80s, some of the dead would have been born in 1910, 20, 30) like and enjoy carrying SS folding knives. Carbon steel was basically for fixed blades and tools and not very common in folders.

I understand that if you are 70 or 90 then you may remember your father or grandfather carrying a carbon steel folder in 1940, or be worried about the low quality SS of decades ago but for most of us a traditional would be a knife we remember from 20, 30, 40 years ago when SS was widely used. Sheffield has been making SS knives for decades. People would often take the SS blade of a kitchen knife and make a friction folder.

[David]

I'm 64 years old and have been around what is now called traditional knives since I was very young. In my world they were called pocket knives. Dont know when or why the traditional thing came about. I think its a thing of the internet. All the men I knew growing up carried carbon steel knives. While there were some SS knives being made at the time they were not trusted as they didnt hold an edge very good and were prone to chipping. There were a few exception like the SS used in the Buck 110 and Queen Steel. But SS had such a bad reputation few men trusted it to do a days work. Course there is much better SS and heat treatments available today and that comes at a higher price. Your mileage may vary.     

[Barry Rowland]

That reputation still holds with many guys around my parts David.  I really can't argue with them.  These guys don't know or care about the different gourmet steel of the month is, just as long as it's sharp and easy to keep that way.

[nate j]

Traditionals aren't going anywhere.  I agree a SAK is more practical, but there are (and I expect there will continue to be) plenty of collector and user interest in the traditional patterns to keep them going.

[Aloha]

dks brings up a good thought on traditional knives for me.  When I'm thinking traditional knives I am thinking primarily tho not exclusively the patterns I see coming from Case, Camillus, Imperial, Soligen, UK, and others.  I am thinking natural materials and typically carbon tho again not exclusively.  My interest was the simplicity of these knives and history of the companies that produced them. 

I am still learning quite a lot about patterns and companies of yesteryear.  I am learning about what I like and enjoying carrying.  I was not a huge fan of big folders or tactical folders so these style knives appeal to me.  Maybe since I didn't grow up with these they are a curiosity or maybe its part of the journey.  Whatever the reason I don't see it as a fad for me or the many I see interested in them.  Companies like Camillus had been around decades before closing their doors and Opinel has been around 100 plus years.  Simple knives to me will always have a "quality" about them.  That quality may not be fit and finish or high end materials it may be as simple as remembering a time when life was simple even if that was not part of my tradition. 

[pomsbz]

I think traditionals will survive the death of hipsterism and the passing on of an older generation simply due to knife laws. That said there are a whole bunch of nice modern slipjoints joining the market which I'm sure will take the place of the nostalgia based 1095 offerings, such as they are. That and the glorious SAK which will probably still be made a century from now.

[Gareth]

As others have already said; the majority of "traditional" knives out there are very US centric, but lets not forget the Opinel and (to a lesser extent) the laguiole and navaja are still popular in their native countries. 

Ignoring SAKs for the moment, when I was growing up one knife I'd see sold in a lot of places is the good old penknife.  In the Scouts you'd see a mix of "sheath" knives and Sheffield style folders.  What everyone wanted was a "Buck" knife though. 

I'd love to see a reasonable quality newly made penknife but I honestly don't know of any. 


So in the modern vs trad debate I'm not certain we aren't comparing apples to oranges.  There are plenty of advantages to a modern folder but they aren't the be-all and end-all of knife design.  In my experience (and without wishing to start a war) they generally aren't as pocket friendly as a medium or small traditional.  My point being that there are still good reasons to carry a trad that isn't just about harking back to the "good old days". 

[ElevenBlade]

In my family and many that I know people would carry a simple folding knife and it would be usually SS, a basic penknife. Some SAKs for the wealthier.

In many situations it was even a basic plastic/wooden/horn handled friction folder, again in SS

The idea of traditional, in English language forums, tends to be guided by the US, and to lesser extend the UK view of traditional knives, like UK origin Barlows and the various US patterns.

There is also the push to use/accept/love/worship Carbon steel (non-stainless) because this is what people say their parents carried.

This surprises me as all the people I remember carrying and the ones I still see carrying knives (they could be in their 80s, some of the dead would have been born in 1910, 20, 30) like and enjoy carrying SS folding knives. Carbon steel was basically for fixed blades and tools and not very common in folders.

I understand that if you are 70 or 90 then you may remember your father or grandfather carrying a carbon steel folder in 1940, or be worried about the low quality SS of decades ago but for most of us a traditional would be a knife we remember from 20, 30, 40 years ago when SS was widely used. Sheffield has been making SS knives for decades. People would often take the SS blade of a kitchen knife and make a friction folder.

You raise a great point - which I realize now plays a lot into my preferences...  I agree with your point about the US-centric details of traditionals.  I realize that I'm pulled in two different directions ... Traditionals, vs my family history of stainless pen knives. 

As others have already said; the majority of "traditional" knives out there are very US centric, but lets not forget the Opinel and (to a lesser extent) the laguiole and navaja are still popular in their native countries. 

Ignoring SAKs for the moment, when I was growing up one knife I'd see sold in a lot of places is the good old penknife.  In the Scouts you'd see a mix of "sheath" knives and Sheffield style folders.  What everyone wanted was a "Buck" knife though. 

I'd love to see a reasonable quality newly made penknife but I honestly don't know of any. 
(Image removed from quote.)

So in the modern vs trad debate I'm not certain we aren't comparing apples to oranges.  There are plenty of advantages to a modern folder but they aren't the be-all and end-all of knife design.  In my experience (and without wishing to start a war) they generally aren't as pocket friendly as a medium or small traditional.  My point being that there are still good reasons to carry a trad that isn't just about harking back to the "good old days". 

Sheffield folders, pen knives I think this sort of pocketknife is sorely missing....

[David]

My point being that there are still good reasons to carry a trad that isn't just about harking back to the "good old days".

Agreed whole heartily   

[dks]

I agree on the penknives being very common with men (cut an apple or open a letter) and women (sewing kits, cutting of apples).


The current equivalent I have is the GEC 33, in 440C SS, a typical penknife I believe. There are also Carbon steel models of the 33.

I am sure RR (maybe RR1185) or Case (a few older) or Buck (309) must make some model like that, that will be easier to find than the GEC.

[Gareth]

I agree on the penknives being very common with men (cut an apple or open a letter) and women (sewing kits, cutting of apples).


The current equivalent I have is the GEC 33, in 440C SS, a typical penknife I believe. There are also Carbon steel models of the 33.

I am sure RR (maybe RR1185) or Case (a few older) or Buck (309) must make some model like that, that will be easier to find than the GEC.

Wish I'd picked up that RR "Dog Bone" when I had the chance.  Seems to be out of stock in the UK at least. 

[cbl51]

In my mrore pessimistic moods, I have doubts that the traditional knife as we know it, will survive. But then being an old fart, I get pessimistic and minor depression episodes. To me, the old slip joint tradition pocket knife like my dad, uncles, grandfather, and older men carried when I was a kid in the 1950's, seems to be a vanishing creature. I see tons of pocket clips around here in our 'new' home in Georgetown Texas, but very very few traditional knives in the stores. Everything is the one hand tactical. Back home, in Washington D.C. where I spent most of my life, you didn't see many knives at all because of the Government buildings not allowing them if blades were like over 2 inches or so. You did see a lot of the SAK classics on keychains, and I guess that is sort of a traditional knife for the urban dweller.

When I was a kid, every man who had pants on, had a knife in a pocket. It was 99% of the time, a small two blade slip joint pen knife abut the size of a Victorinox secretary or Wenger patriot. They were made by case, kabar, Western, Pal, Utica, Camillus, Schrade, Ulster, Robeson, Imperial, and others, mostly gone our of business. Now the so called 'new' knives offer the convenience of one hand opening and a locked blade that has dubious value in the real world, unless you are a would be Walter Mitty commando with delusions of taking out enemy sentries and close quarter combat while shouting "WOLVERINES!".

I guess as a kid, I got into a habit of trying to imitate my heroes. My Uncle Charlie got his feet wet at a beach in France and walked most the way to Berlin. My Uncle Sony was a young guy who enlisted right after Pearl Harbor and flew B-17's out of eastern England on bombing missions over the Germany. He ended up staying in the Air Force for a career and ended up with B-52's over Vietnam  My dad was a an intelligence spook and would never talk about his job to us even long after he was retired, and went on after the war to work in one of the spook shops in D.C. Uncle Mike was a PT boat crewman, and got a boat blown out from under trim in the English Channel one night when they tangled with two German S-boats. He and two others were the only survivors out of a crew of 12.

Growing up watching these men, I tried to imitate their actions and when faced with a problem, ask myself what would dad, Uncle Sony, Uncle Charlie or Uncle Mike do? That all carried a normal little two blade penknife or jackknife, and a Sears's 4-way keychain screw driver. They did very well with very little, and with a small 2 inch blade cut what they had to cut on a daily basis. No one hand opening, no locks on blades, no weird blade shapes to piece armor or zooy stuff. They had all their fingers and never cut themselves. There was nothing flashy or over board about the them.

Now, people think they need a lock that will support an armored car, open in a fraction of a second, and have materials that will last for a thousand years and be impervious to death rays. I've actually tried one or two of them. Just out of curiosity, mind you, I wanted to know if I was missing anything. I missed having a nice little pocket knife with a choice of blades was what I missed. I'm not sure what the younger generation is doing that requires a bigger more clumsy blade that is either too long or too wide. But it was fast and convenient, and people do love convenience. It's beguiling. It's addictive. Once used to it, people don't like to go back. I've had young guys look at my old traditional, and say 'what a PITA, you had e to pull open the blade with a thumbnail?" Or "Wow dude, that blade can fold over and cut you good!" They were young, and totally indoctrinated to the new and improved pocket knives of the one hand wonder kind. I can only wonder what they would think of my friction folders that don't even have a slip joint back spring like my Sardinian Resolza, or Japanese Higonokami, or my Opinel number 5.

There will always be the old throw backs like, who for whatever reason seek out the old stuff for the sake of nostalgia. When I go to the shooting range I'm the only guy there using a revolver. Once in a while some other old fart will be there with a revolver, but all the young guys look at us and shake their heads. One guy said my gun "looks like a boom-boom gun from an old movie." 

I think there will be the boutique demand from repeat buyers like collectors of GEC stuff. But in the most part, I think after we're gone there will be very little knives on the market that are not the one hand wonders with space age materials. There will be SAK's, and I hope Opinels, but 50 years from now you'll have to look hard for them. Guns are the same way. The last two revolvers I bought had to be special ordered, because the local gun shops just didn't stock them. Too little demand. And on the knife dis[play at the Academy Sports, even Buck's offerings are the plastic handle thumb stud equipped semi tactical models. Never see a Buck 301 stockman on the rack.

I'm not optimistic on the future of the traditional pocket knife.

[ElevenBlade]

 


I had a Buck 309... a two-bladed pen knife.  sadly I lost it....    Even these days when I'd consider getting another one... They're nowhere to be found.  Then I remember how I managed to lose it in the first place.

I do understand how a one handed opening blade can become addictive, and I often and albeit easily resist the urge to go looking for more.  Just like I've gotten into the habit of using other implements on a SAK instead of using a blade for everything... I'm in the habit of a nail nick.  But fiddle with a Leatherman for long enough, and you're bound to get impatient. 

[nate j]

I had a Buck 309... a two-bladed pen knife.  sadly I lost it....    Even these days when I'd consider getting another one... They're nowhere to be found.

You could try a Buck 303, or Case has two-bladed pen patterns on offer still.

[ElevenBlade]

You could try a Buck 303, or Case has two-bladed pen patterns on offer still.

It's a cruel joke.. I tell you... all the ones I like on the Case website are out of stock. 

[Dtrain]

Nothing Wrong with a Good Traditional...Im carrying a GEC Heavy Trapper alongw ith my Gerber CenterDrive and Cold Steel Spartan...

[SteveC]

It's a cruel joke.. I tell you... all the ones I like on the Case website are out of stock. 

All kinds of pen knives on eBay

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Penknife&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=10&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

[ElevenBlade]

All kinds of pen knives on eBay

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Penknife&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=10&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

[SteveC]

 

[David]

What's up Doc? Watch out for them rabbit holes!   

[Barry Rowland]

 

[nate j]

It's a cruel joke.. I tell you... all the ones I like on the Case website are out of stock. 

The Case manufacturer website doesn’t generally have the best stock.  Distributors are a better bet.  If you want to post up a link or two to knives you like (even if out of stock), I’ll help you hunt.

[David]

The Case manufacturer website doesn’t generally have the best stock.  Distributors are a better bet.  If you want to post up a link or two to knives you like (even if out of stock), I’ll help you hunt.

Oh, another enabler!     

[David]

Warning serious wabbit hole. Case Pen knives.