On the Tradition of Traditional Knives - or - Who's Tradition is it?

[ElevenBlade]

 

[dks]

https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Gentlemans_Penknife.html#SID=19

From the UK (ask for it to be inspected before buying it)

[ElevenBlade]

https://www.sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Gentlemans_Penknife.html#SID=19

From the UK (ask for it to be inspected before buying it)

(Image removed from quote.)

 

There are quite a few interesting blade shapes here.  I wonder if one is more traditional than another.   

A clip point is traditional for a folding hunter, but a spear point on a Barlow is traditional too.  On the Sheffield page there are several lambsfoot blades that I haven't seen much of before.

[dks]

They used to have products of several of the Sheffield makers a few years ago. I bought a few knives from them. They seem to be basically just selling one brand now for some reason

[nate j]

There are quite a few interesting blade shapes here.  I wonder if one is more traditional than another.   

I've found this to be an interesting primer on blade shapes:

https://agrussell.com/encyclopedia/blade-shapes

[Steelej1976]

My main reason for preferring traditional knives is I can't stand pocket clips.  I carry my wallet in my front pocket and I hate fighting the knife to get my wallet out. My SAK Climber or Case Medium Jack sit under my wallet until needed.  Also the clips tear up the pocket of my pants.

For work I carry my Leatherman Wave in a belt sheath and I love the OHO and lock but just running to the grocery store and day to day cutting a small slip joint is more then enough for me.  I think traditional knives will be around because they work and sometimes better. 

[Ray S]

An interesting discourse to be sure. As I approach the eighth decade of my term on this planet my vision of a so-called,"traditional" knife is still what it was when I got my first folding knife. It was a 4 blade Imperial Kamp King much the same as my grandfather's favorite knife. Having a spear point master blade;a screwdriver/cap lifter;a tin opener,and a leather punch,it served my needs faithfully until I lost it one day in the small brook behind our house while sharpening a branch to gig frogs. As much as I moved that mud around I never did find it(the rusted remains are likely still there).
After that came a cheap Imperial fishtail switchblade I bought from a classmate.This was when spring operated knives were still legal in the USA. The spring gave up the ghost after about a week or so of constant flicking and attempts to replace the broken spring were futile.
Next up was a true Italian stiletto bought from a neighbor for the princely sum of $6.This was when my weekly allowance was 25 cents.That lasted until my mathematics teacher got tired of listening to it snap open while he was trying to disseminate information to the class.
Over the years I have always carried a pocket knife and usually have favored the,"traditional" type aka a two blade jack.It might be USA made or perhaps English(I still carry a stag handled I*XL on occasion)and maybe even a German model.
I have tried so-called,"modern" knives and found them lacking in "soul". I abhor anything with a pocket clip on it as does my oldest boy(now 51)who had one open in his pocket as he was pulling up his pants and leaving a gash from his calf to his thigh.(see picture).
My current carry knife is an unmarked custom made friction folder that is carried in a protective purse to keep it from accidentally opening in my pocket. It is light but sturdy enough for anything I might need to use it for.

[SteveC]

Yikes !   that's a bad cut Ray   

[ElevenBlade]

After realizing that this sort of cut (either the leg, or the hand reaching into the pocket) can happen with any knife that has an easy opening mechanism such as a flipper tab... I feel safer with a slipjoint 

[dks]

a slipjoint for closed safety and a locking one for open safety

[comis]

After realizing that this sort of cut (either the leg, or the hand reaching into the pocket) can happen with any knife that has an easy opening mechanism such as a flipper tab... I feel safer with a slipjoint 

I think that maybe slightly unfair to 'flipper tab' knives to call them unsafe, and from my experience, the reason for accidents often came from either poor design/execution or user negligence.  I have slipjoints from reputable maker where the tip is proud(from the chassis), so much so it is accident waiting to happen.

While talking about knife safety, that's part reason why I love my Victorinox One hand trekker--basically they are 'slip joint' with locking mechanism, so even if the liner lock 'fail' for whatever, the backspring is there to keep the blade open.

[comis]

a slipjoint for closed safety and a locking one for open safety

I live by 4 basic knife safety rules to save me from any bodily harm, and one of the rules is to treat every folding knife like a slip joint knife. 

It may sound like paranoid, but misplaced trust on a (weak) lock could fail very catastrophically.  I remembered reading accounts of severe knife injuries, many of those users don't even know exactly what happened and why the lock failed, and it happened so fast that next thing they knew their finger(s) are amputated.

[Aloha]

Chiming in to agree that all folders are treated as slip joints by me as well.  While the lock is a nice feature the added sense of safety does tend have some use their knives a bit more carelessly. 

As to a knife opening in pocket or otherwise,  .  I remember the picture of your sons leg Ray.  That was very unfortunate.  So happy it was not a worse outcome. 

[NutSAK]

a slipjoint for closed safety and a locking one for open safety

Many locking folders lock in the open and closed position, but don't lock closed automatically--Opinel and Kershaw Leek, as examples. Of course the closed lock on a Kershaw Leek precludes one-handed operation and therefore is likely there to reduce the occurrence of lawsuits.  I dropped a Leek once and the blade flew open, and at that point I decided spring-assisted knives weren't for me.

With that said, I carry a slipjoint the vast majority of the time, as my uses don't require locking blades on a day-to-day basis. Having lived with one without issue for nearly 40 years I don't ever fear a blade closing on me.

[Ray S]

Perhaps I should clarify things a bit. The knife my son was carrying when he got cut was an inexpensive,"Pacific Rim" folder that did not like to stay closed.This is a problem with many of the so-called,"flipper" knives that are currently available. It really has nothing to do with the quality(or lack thereof)of the knife but whether it was designed for easy opening.
I have a custom knife that was made many years ago by Jason Williams(designer of the Axis Lock)that had a very unique feature on it:It had a thumb stud and the action was very light and smooth.He designed the thumb stud so that it protruded very slightly on the opposite side of the blade and was rounded on the end.This fit into a small depression that was made into the liner of the knife;effectively locking the blade closed but still allowing a smooth and easy opening.
This was done over thirty years ago and I cannot understand why something similar could not be included in a production knife.Here is a picture of the knife and also a picture of the back of the blade showing the detent.

[comis]

Perhaps I should clarify things a bit. The knife my son was carrying when he got cut was an inexpensive,"Pacific Rim" folder that did not like to stay closed.This is a problem with many of the so-called,"flipper" knives that are currently available. It really has nothing to do with the quality(or lack thereof)of the knife but whether it was designed for easy opening.
I have a custom knife that was made many years ago by Jason Williams(designer of the Axis Lock)that had a very unique feature on it:It had a thumb stud and the action was very light and smooth.He designed the thumb stud so that it protruded very slightly on the opposite side of the blade and was rounded on the end.This fit into a small depression that was made into the liner of the knife;effectively locking the blade closed but still allowing a smooth and easy opening.
This was done over thirty years ago and I cannot understand why something similar could not be included in a production knife.Here is a picture of the knife and also a picture of the back of the blade showing the detent.

Ray, I think most modern locking flipper or thumb stud opening knife does have detent. 

And unlike the example you have shown, the detent ball are usually on the liner/frame lock, while the depression is on the blade, closer to the pivot area.  The depression is usually well hidden under the bolster for aesthetic reason.  In fact, flipper knife tends to have 'stronger' detent, so the opening pressure can 'build' up and fling the blade open with authority when it overcomes the detent. 

A flipper with weak detent (or poorly designed flipper tab)tends to flip only half way or lazy, and worse, if it is assisted, it may even be more accident prone.

[dks]

I also have what can be described as a double backlock knife, where you need to operate the lock to open the knife, and to close it, bought from LIDL a few years ago. The automatic lock makes it practically impossible to have the knife open in your pocket.

[pfrsantos]

I also have what can be described as a double backlock knife, where you need to operate the lock to open the knife, and to close it, bought from LIDL a few years ago. The automatic lock makes it practically impossible to have the knife open in your pocket.

A chubby little knife, with wood inlay handle and half serrated blade? I got the same (looked for it but still haven't found it). Cost about €5. Never used it, though. Don't like the half serrations and the double lock.

 

I know, I know... why did I bought it, then? Well, €5 and a new (to me) lock mechanism.

 

[comis]

I also have what can be described as a double backlock knife, where you need to operate the lock to open the knife, and to close it, bought from LIDL a few years ago. The automatic lock makes it practically impossible to have the knife open in your pocket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpd2uLePjeQ&ab_channel=COASTProducts

Is this what you guys are talking about?  I remember seeing something like this long ago, maybe from Kershaw?  But for whatever it never really took off.

[pfrsantos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpd2uLePjeQ&ab_channel=COASTProducts

Is this what you guys are talking about?  I remember seeing something like this long ago, maybe from Kershaw?  But for whatever it never really took off.

No, it's just one backlock, but it engages fully open and fully closed. You have to press it to release the closed blade to open and to release the opened blade to close it.

[pfrsantos]

Found one! Not the model I have, but the lock is the same. Even the little pointy hump in the back:

[Ray S]

Although I am a great fan of Al Mar knives and their quality of fit and finish,there is one model that I believe they made a huge mistake on.
The Al Mar Silver Eagle is a great little knife;slim with nicely smoothed sharp edges and a very smooth opening and closing. The problem is the only thing that keeps the blade from opening(in your pocket)is a small hook at the rear of the handle.There are teeth cut into the top of it to allow you to open it with a fingernail.
Where the problem begins is over time the hook has a tendency to loosen up and activate on it's own.This can occur if you attempt to open it with the thumb stud before taking off the lock.It will also activate when it is in your pocket which is one of the reasons I no longer carry it.The only way to really tighten it is to hammer on the outside of the handle which is detrimental to the finish of the knife and can create sharp edges.Here is a picture of the knife and the mechanism. As you can see the hook doesn't engage the point of the blade all that much.

[Valkie]

In Australia, any knife is classified as a weapon and deemed illegal to carry (even little tiny Victornox classics).
I would dearly love to carry one of my many classics, but alas, this is not to be.

My son, who is a farmer will not even carry a knife outside his property.

I carry a Victornox on me all the time, always have, always will.

Some laws are just plain idiotic and should be ignored.

Labeling everyone who carries a knife as a criminal is simply another layer of Draconian, Orwellian politics.
Even carrying a screwdriver in her purse, my wife is technically breaking the law.
We are Technically not even allowed to have a knife in our cars.

[Echotech]

I’m in Sydney and no law breaker but consider having at least a Rambler on me the bare minimum.

Go into the hawkesbury and mountains a fair bit on the weekends and always take something bigger, I genuinely think it’d be irresponsible to go into the bush and not have a few emergency items.

I only ever use them for bush craft or food and don’t wander around the city with a SAK 111 or Buck 110 (as much as I’d like to) but there has to be some common sense applied

[dks]

We have been mislead by Dundee..

[Echotech]

We have been mislead by Dundee..

Unfortunately yes dks, although different laws in different states, knives are allowed to be carried in Queensland…and if you’re in the bush here in New South Wales it’s ok too as you have legitimate reason

[comis]

Found one! Not the model I have, but the lock is the same. Even the little pointy hump in the back:

Thanks for the clip, that for sure is a pretty safe design, just kinda curious why they left a hump on the back of the spring? 

In Australia, any knife is classified as a weapon and deemed illegal to carry (even little tiny Victornox classics).
I would dearly love to carry one of my many classics, but alas, this is not to be.

My son, who is a farmer will not even carry a knife outside his property.

I carry a Victornox on me all the time, always have, always will.

Some laws are just plain idiotic and should be ignored.

Labeling everyone who carries a knife as a criminal is simply another layer of Draconian, Orwellian politics.
Even carrying a screwdriver in her purse, my wife is technically breaking the law.
We are Technically not even allowed to have a knife in our cars.

I’m in Sydney and no law breaker but consider having at least a Rambler on me the bare minimum.

Go into the hawkesbury and mountains a fair bit on the weekends and always take something bigger, I genuinely think it’d be irresponsible to go into the bush and not have a few emergency items.

I only ever use them for bush craft or food and don’t wander around the city with a SAK 111 or Buck 110 (as much as I’d like to) but there has to be some common sense applied

I often feel sorry for our friends from Australia, I know UK knife law is pretty strict but the no knife law is really far too strict.  I just fail to see how even a small slip joint could be termed as 'weapon'.

[Echotech]

comis
If anything it’s getting stricter here thanks to thugs who carry zombie knives et al.
Would like to see some common sense applied, surely a 58mm poses little danger, you could pick up a stick or rock off the ground and do much more damage.
Thugs will continue to ignore the law while the rest of us are penalised. I can see why I don’t need to carry a large fixed blade in the city, no issue with that at all, but a tiny pen knife, total over kill penalising law abiding citizens

[Ray S]

comis
If anything it’s getting stricter here thanks to thugs who carry zombie knives et al.
Would like to see some common sense applied, surely a 58mm poses little danger, you could pick up a stick or rock off the ground and do much more damage.
Thugs will continue to ignore the law while the rest of us are penalised. I can see why I don’t need to carry a large fixed blade in the city, no issue with that at all, but a tiny pen knife, total over kill penalising law abiding citizens

Although the states here in the USA seem to be relaxing some of their outdated and mostly ridiculous laws applicable to knives,the federal government in it's,"infinite wisdom" seems to be leaning towards more restrictive laws regarding firearms.Without getting into a political discussion it seems that these,"Alice in Wonderland" people are rewarding bad behavior by freeing criminals and punishing law abiding citizens who only want to live in peace and have a safe environment for them and their families.The problem as I see it is not that we need more laws but more enforcement of existing ones.I'll shut up now.

[pfrsantos]

Thanks for the clip, that for sure is a pretty safe design, just kinda curious why they left a hump on the back of the spring? 
(...)

Yup, no idea. Found mine:





Same hump on the back. Maybe to make the back spring stronger?