Multitool.org Forum
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc. 1063

Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,109 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« on: October 23, 2015, 12:23:19 PM »
Lately people have been throwing these words around and I think that some of these words have lost their actual meaning.

Objects that are similar are called knockoffs, inspired items are called clones or copies and so on.

We have had the swisstools being described as LM knockoffs, products of the same company being made outside the companies headquarters being described as knockoffs (e.g. byrd) and so on..

Is it just people defending their favourite brand, or their country or what. Are they worried about competition?
 
Schrade and others copied the Buck 110 decades ago, and nobody seemed to mind. (US Schrade has changed but Buck is still as it was) Is Byrd a knockoff spyderco? Can the OEM sell an unbranded product? Can anybody ever improve on an existing design or is that stealing?

You also see people claiming this for traditional patterns, despite these patterns being around for a hundred years.

so, what do these words mean to you?
Knockoff
Copy
clone
inspired
similar
improved
OEM product

add more....


Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
No Life Club Posts: 3,534
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 12:49:15 PM »
To me:
knockoff - same tool design, different branding (Mammut and other LM stuff, Aitor, Pradel and other SAK stuff)
copy - same tool design, same branding, created to fool people, evil (China SAKs and Spydercos)
clone - can be either of the above
inspired - borrowing same general idea, various changes (everybody vs LM)
similar - concurrent design or functionability but finished and executed differently (Squirt, Dime, CrossGrip)
inspired - borrowing same general idea, features added or improved (Emerson Multitasker > SAK)
OEM product - (using parts of a system and rebranding: Vic>Adler, SRM>Spyderco etc.)

Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,076 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 01:59:04 PM »
We're living in times where notions are being twisted badly and where words do lose their actual meaning.

However, some words are just synonyms for me, they mean the same with some minor difference of little improtance usually.

So, for me:


Knockoff - A fake, branded product meant to deceive the buyer by making believe it is something is is not.

Copy - A product imitating another, without necessarily having any misleading branding on it.

Clone - Could be either a knockoff or a copy, the product's usually bad quality revealing what it's not.

Inspired - Drawing inspiration from, but not necessarily copying/cloning some other product.

Similar - Bearing a resemblance to some other product in terms of apperance and/or function.

Improved - Tweaked, revamped, a different maker's take on a given product

OEM product - A product made with parts that were outsourced, i.e. bought from a third party (do affiliates count as third parties?).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 02:02:30 PM by firiki »

Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Full Member Posts: 233
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 11:04:32 PM »
I would add "counterfeit" to the list.

Counterfeit: Falsely branded as an original with intent to deceive. May or may not be an exact copy of an existing, legitimate tool.

Copy / clone: Synonymous to me. Extremely close in design with no substantive changes from a particular original design. May or may not be a counterfeit as well.

Knockoff: Copy or clone but implies lesser quality. Usually not a counterfeit, lacking fake branding.

Inspired: Similar in design or features but with enough differentiation that even without branding would not be confused with the design that inspired it.

Similar: Convergent design, not modeled after another product but for all intents and purposes interchangeable in usage if not quality.

Improved: Inspired++.

OEM: Identical products sourced by multiple companies. Could qualify as copy, but typically there would be some sort of legal framework involved to allow the multiple brandings.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,517 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2015, 11:52:04 PM »
My definitions would be pretty much in line with firiki's, and he makes a good point about words losing meaning. I've worked in engineering for 25 years, and. Have spent most of that time having to double check whether me and the other person have the same terminology. A few times I've got complacent, and one of use has supplied the other with something totally different to what was wanted/needed. I don't think it's a recent phenomenon though, more like these days we expect everyone to think the same way we do, whereas in the past we expected to have to explain things more.

There are certain terms I'm never quite sure of and have to check what is actually meant. Getting laid off from work is a good example. To me it means being made redundant and losing your job altogether, but to others it seems to mean put on short time working (only working four days a week instead of five for example)



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,076 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 01:42:38 AM »
Cheers, 50ft. Mapping people's perception of the same thing/notion; that's quite a thought provoking job. Good thread :tu:

I see these definitions as indicative of the general idea I have in mind for each term, others are correct in pointing out the importance of delibarate imitation of certain/all features and aspect of a product as it's presence or absence makes the difference between fraud and market jungle :D

As for being complacent with tool names... I'm not very well versed it Greek tool jargon but over the years I've noticed some significant variation here too. Like, (translating loosely):

Is the crescent wrench a French key or a German key? One of them is a wrench to some, to others it's the other. Some call it a crab but that's a plumber wrench to me.

Plumber wrench, some call it a crab, others a bitch. Others call vise-grips a bitch and some will call chain cutters that.  For me, the bitch is a crowbar.

:facepalm: :cheers:




Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,517 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2015, 02:19:29 AM »
A few examples:

When setting a long forged bar in a lathe, you might need to use what I call a thimble to be able to run it on a steady (which some people call a stay). Some people call these thimbles, "spiders", but to me a spider is used in a bore not on the outside. Some would call it a steadyband, but to me that's a turned section of the bar so you can run the steady directly on it. Others call it a gripping ring, but to me that's a split ring used for distributing the chucks gripping pressure on thin walled items so you don't squash it square...

A lathe tool used for turning from left to right is a left handed tool... not everyone would agree  ::) on a leverlock tool the insert sits on a base, or a seat, or a shim depending on who you are. To others a shim packs it up to correct centre height, the base is the tool itself (which to others is a cartridge), and the seat is where the tool goes on the machine....  :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh

These are simple things  ::) when you start getting into specialised boring operations, it can be a real lottery communicating sometimes.  Even now after working with my boss for 18 months, we still have to be careful we don't trip each other up with terminology.




The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
In Memoriam No Life Club Posts: 4,558 Geometry cuts but the steel determines how long.
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2015, 02:20:44 AM »
Knockoff/Copy/clone: To me these are the same I see this a lot in products from China & Taiwan. Visually similer but internally made cheap to undercut the original makers price.

Counterfeit: Made to look like a manufactures product and sold with the same brand name. Lower quality to undercut the originals price.

Similar: Can look similar to another makers product but with enough design differences to not be a copy. Equal in quality and usability.

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer

Improved: An original makers improved product.

Inspired: Drawing inspiration from but not copying original product.

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,076 Cats have pocket knives of their own
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2015, 02:30:01 AM »
...

These are simple things  ::) when you start getting into specialised boring operations ...

...

Riiiight. I'm going to shut up now  :rofl:

 :drink:

Omnia vincit amor. Vae victis.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,517 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2015, 02:35:56 AM »
...

These are simple things  ::) when you start getting into specialised boring operations ...

...

Riiiight. I'm going to shut up now  :rofl:

 :drink:

 :D :D :D



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,109 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2015, 06:10:36 AM »
+ 1 for counterfeit . Possibly the worst one, but clone and copy and even knockoff are sometimes used in that context.

Getting laid off is much more fun without the off.

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]
Absolute Zombie Club Posts: 21,109 Bored

dks cy

********* *
Re: Define knockoff, clone, copy, inspired, similar, OEM product etc.
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2021, 10:25:27 AM »
Giving this a bump as I see the issue with the meaning/use of the various terms still persists, with them being used to describe something people do not like/approve rather than what they should literally (legally - where?) describe

Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

[ Knife threads ]  [ Country shopping guides ]  [ Battery-Charger-Light threads ]  [ Picture threads ]

 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
September Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Sep 30
Total Receipts: $124.10
PayPal Fees: $7.29
Net Balance: $116.81
Below Goal: $183.19
Site Currency: USD
39% 
September Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal
SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2020, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.053 seconds with 34 queries.
© 2018 Defender Web & Tool