Kamakiri’s ‘no-drill’ 2.2mm SAK rivet removal

[hulk.]

sorry to betray a big secret, but I like sharing too much to be silent.
Simply sand down a rivet with sandpaper or a whetstone.
and drive out the rivet with a pin punch with a very sharp hammer blow.
the brass and soft the little remaining material and expel on the top

this photo is the most representative of the method

[pfrsantos]

[SteveC]

 

[pfrsantos]

sorry to betray a big secret, but I like sharing too much to be silent.
Simply sand down a rivet with sandpaper or a whetstone.
and drive out the rivet with a pin punch with a very sharp hammer blow.
the brass and soft the little remaining material and expel on the top

this photo is the most representative of the method



(Image removed from quote.)

 

[Max Stone]

Internet Forum = a place where people with similar interests enjoy friendly discussion and sharing ideas.
Internet Troll = someone who enjoys provoking others into an emotional response not in keeping with the spirit of the forum.

Kamakiri, I always thought that your engaging manner on SAK topics (such as dating) was a way to get those with less than your knowledge to look more closely and learn, much like a teacher does with a student.

Sadly, I must now conclude that these engagements were more cynical in nature, and rather than the reward of sharing knowledge, you were just baiting others in some form of perverted pleasure by withholding that what you know.

This thread makes me sad as my respect for you as a Master of Knowledge is no more. 

[enki_ck]

sorry to betray a big secret, but I like sharing too much to be silent.
Simply sand down a rivet with sandpaper or a whetstone.
and drive out the rivet with a pin punch with a very sharp hammer blow.
the brass and soft the little remaining material and expel on the top

this photo is the most representative of the method



(Image removed from quote.)

Thank you for sharing your knowledge That is a good method for saving the bushings. How much height do you loose this way and how do the bushings once reassembled engage the scales? Do they go deep enough?

[PitCarver]

sorry to betray a big secret, but I like sharing too much to be silent.
Simply sand down a rivet with sandpaper or a whetstone.
and drive out the rivet with a pin punch with a very sharp hammer blow.
the brass and soft the little remaining material and expel on the top

this photo is the most representative of the method


(Image removed from quote.)

Definitely good to know.  The only time I took one apart I lost all the bushings on one side.
Thanks.

[kamakiri]

Sorry…not even reading the previous posts. Surprised this got to page 2 though.

Was busy with knife time today, and made this:

[kamakiri]

Also had time to test on some ribbed 84mm alox.

.

[HankSolon]

@Kamakiri:

This thread is really stupid. I'm not offended, don't get me wrong. Do whatever you want. Still multitool.org was raised by individuals who loved to share for the benefit of all. So if you present a teaser and keep everything secret, well enjoy your 15 min fame and vanish silently as the guy who likes to pose.

Aside from that: Little training and you can drill out pin even by hand without damaging scale or brushings. So no need for that cheepo steel template. ;-)

[kamakiri]

Wow. I feel the love now. 

FWIW, I had no problem removing rivets from anything. Even exposed ones in cellidor. It just takes time…and lots of it.

This isn’t like a great feat or anything I need to hang my hat on or get my 15 minutes of fame. But I can do it quicker and cleaner than using a fancy press or whatnot. No sandpaper or guide or shield needed. Jeez.

As for the ‘gatekeeper’ comment…oh, the irony. I’m just not friends with the gatekeepers.

[GearedForwards]

As for the ‘gatekeeper’ comment…oh, the irony. I’m just not friends with the gatekeepers.

Do you even know what gatekeeping is?

I'm part of another forum where mods scrub whatever they feel is against the rules out of your posts. Just straight up edit it out.

I've never seen that happen here and I've seen some terrible treatment of each other in some threads.

All knowledge here is presented for free, without needing an account, without needing to pay to contribute and with members helping out each other as needed.

You don't agree or get on with people that's whatever, you do you, but unquestionably displaying something and withholding that knowledge is nothing but gatekeeping and arrogance.

[kamakiri]

Excellent debate. pass.

What’s going on is also retaliation. SteveC accidentally copied me on some moderator discussion from Pincho about me a while back. It was NOT representative of the mto spirit. I was a bit shocked honestly…and kicked it up a level. I’d want to know if it were my staff behaving as such or making such mistakes. Now this. Surprise. Oops. 

[Poncho65]

You were being rude to another member and we called you out on it, plain and simple

Similar to how you are being now.

The only reason I was aware of the situation prior is a few people had flagged the post,  not the moderators.

We haven't told anyone to post anything in here and anything said above by other members is only what they think themselves from what they have read

Now if you wish to share your method or not is up to you (it may be different that the other members method that they posted above) but usually MTO is a place that shares information and thatbis something everyone has become accustomed to over the years. So when someone is posting something and gets asked a question it is usually answered.  Again if you wish not to answer that is fine just word it in a way that isn't considered volatile.

Thanks

[kamakiri]

Now if you wish to share your method or not is up to you

Thanks

That’s really all anyone wearing their moderator hat needed to say. The jabs from Steve and you are totally not needed. Totally opens the door for people to follow suit.

If we can move on from the old business, I’d like to. If not, we can discuss the details of your original and untimely PM to me. I’d rather not.

You were being rude to another member and we called you out on it, plain and simple

Another member who was being rude and providing incorrect advice to another member seeking help.

I’m sorry about stepping in like I think a mod should have.

Similar to how you are being now.

Defensive? Sure. Being attacked from all sides here.

The only reason I was aware of the situation prior is a few people had flagged the post,  not the moderators.

Well, I’d make sure to just use the button next time.

Seriously, if I thought this was a big deal on my part, that Def would have chimed in or gotten back to me. Since he didn’t, I assumed he talked to you and/or Steve about his faux pax.

We haven't told anyone to post anything in here and anything said above by other members is only what they think themselves from what they have read

Just set the tone for a witch hunt is all. I get it. 

[kamakiri]

 This is the best part. Almost all of you doing exactly what Poncho was scolding me for.

However what is absolutely unacceptable here at MTo is to call fellow MTo-ers names and to not treat them with respect.
Here at MTo we pride ourselves in the supportive, warm, respectful and open-minded characteristics of our forum .... and this is often commented on by our members
Comments such as yours in this thread wreck this environment and can even cause people to leave.

[Poncho65]

We are not getting anywhere like this

So lets just drop the matter and continue on

I know, I or any other mod is not going to change your mind but we aren't trying to be the bad guys in this so please try to not make it out that way and let it drop. We have never or will never witch hunt

If you wish to continue any more of this we can take it to PM

[kamakiri]

So lets just drop the matter and continue on

 

[Sos24]

This is the weirdest thread I've even seen on MTO.  As far as online communities go, this place is so friendly.  I really do not understand OP's prickliness.

:agree:  it feels strange on here. 

It seems the OP feels “singled out” or “targeted” by mods.  I have left a couple forums for mods that were that way - Targeting some while letting friends or those they agreed with violate rules.   I’ve never seen that from the mods on here.

Sadly, I must now conclude that these engagements were more cynical in nature, and rather than the reward of sharing knowledge, you were just baiting others in some form of perverted pleasure by withholding that what you know.

This thread makes me sad as my respect for you as a Master of Knowledge is no more. 

I do still respect kamakiri’s knowledge, but now due to this thread I unfortunately feel conflicted.  I use feel that his informative posts were from a place of wanting to share knowledge to help other with similar interest.  But now it feels more like it is more a condescending desire to feel superior.

[HankSolon]

But now it feels more like it is more a condescending desire to feel superior.

As for me, while I consider the answers given so far, it is fair to say, that this thread is just some kind of trolling. Sad thing. People like that appear from time to time in forums and don't realize how damaging this kind of culture is.

Well, I'm out.

[Poncho65]

Let's move on people If someone wants to contribute to the No Drill technique that is fine but nothing good will come from posts of another nature from here on

[pfrsantos]

[kamakiri]

Did a new alox Bantam today. Two came out perfectly and one wiped the anodizing off the tapered seat about half way round (pictured below).

Measured the pins before and after. Each lost about 0.2mm-0.3mm from when the radius of the domed rivet head gets flattened.

Also stripped down a Wenger for center layer parts. Came apart quickly…faster than any Vic because all the pins are similar style to the Vic cellidor 3rd/backside pins without the bushings.

[kamakiri]

Those inlays

What inlay would you put in a set of orange scales? 

And don’t say a Shamrock! 

[kamakiri]

Success! 

Ranger (modern 2013) came apart in record time. The 2.2mm bushing came out as close to perfect as I think I can on the cutting side. The bright ring at the bottom of the conical seat is about as minimal as I believe is possible to get the rivet out and bushing off with just a gentle tap.

 Lots of exposed rivet knives showed up today…more chances to practice. 

[kamakiri]

Not as fast as the Ranger above, but this Cadet took just over 8 minutes to get to this point. That’s including needing to change sides for the cutting on one of the rivets, and spending some time to make sure the heads were completely removed. I’ll never even try to work this fast on a new or good condition alox knife, but this one was obviously well worn. Two taps of the hammer and punch each. Work was all started on the front/shield side.

2nd pic showing the pins, still full/original length.

[kamakiri]

I’ll never even try to work this fast on a new or good condition alox knife

Wrongo.

I was taking apart a moderately used cadet and the rivet cutting was going well, so I took a moment to find a new one to take apart.

First pic is the well-centered/tight ‘cut’ that made me think I should try again on a new alox.

Second is of the two knives apart 12 minutes later.

[Andetto]

I dont get the purpose of this thread.
Normally, people share information with other members in good will.
Am not saying here that its mandatory, everybody is free.
But it doesnt make sense or interest to follow this.
Have a nice day.

[kamakiri]

Have a nice day.

Thank you. I will.

I found despite my age, that I am strong enough to actually push rivets out. Out of a 2-layer 84mm, at least.

Revised the process a bit for 2.2mm with bushings and the result is the attached pic. Focus on speed over cosmetics of the bushing seat. Also prepares the tip for reuse. And tells me when the right cutting depth is reached without needing to grab a magnifier.

Also did more work to be able to work similarly on other pin sizes, 2.0mm for exposed rivets only, and one to handle 2.5mm and 3.0mm without regard to reusing the pins since there is widely available round stock for those sizes.

[PitCarver]

I dont get the purpose of this thread.
Normally, people share information with other members in good will.
Am not saying here that its mandatory, everybody is free.
But it doesnt make sense or interest to follow this.
Have a nice day.

I guess folks check out new posts with the "hope" of learning something new to them.   I'd certainly like to know how to safely remove the pins and keep the bushings intact.
Until that day I'll just have to be content with my " buy a junker for parts" method.