Kamakiri’s ‘no-drill’ 2.2mm SAK rivet removal

[kamakiri]

I guess folks check out new posts with the "hope" of learning something new to them.   I'd certainly like to know how to safely remove the pins and keep the bushings intact.
Until that day I'll just have to be content with my " buy a junker for parts" method.

There are already lots of relatively conventional ways to do that using regular drills and bits. Even without fancy laser guided drill presses. I haven’t looked for such a thread, but if there isn’t one, then perhaps asking the question is what you should do. 

I came up with these ‘no drill’ techniques out of a desire to also save the 2.2mm pins as they were a time consuming pain for me to turn. Ironically, I’ve solved that problem too, even with my simple tool setup.

[PitCarver]

Don't take my comment personally.  I was simply responding to  Andetto's comment, which was quoted in mine.
I can certainly understand the reluctance in divulging your process.  I'd probably feel the same way if asked how to carve a peach seed monkey.

[kamakiri]

Don't take my comment personally.  I was simply responding to  Andetto's comment, which was quoted in mine.

Understood. My reply to yours is only to help those who can’t drill a bushing without damaging it.

I can certainly understand the reluctance in divulging your process.  I'd probably feel the same way if asked how to carve a peach seed monkey.

Which is why it confuses me a bit that people reacted so badly to this thread. Perhaps if I made clear that it’s potentially patentable…and posting more than I have would put that at risk.  Or it just speaks to how much people have become accustomed to ‘free’ info via YouTube and it’s ilk.

[Andetto]

It was a misunderstanding, I guess.
Good work
Cheers

[Aloha]

I tried my hand at modding SAKs and had a fun time initially.  I can get a wide assortment of SAKs at my local flea market so cost is low.  I am grateful to the members of MTO who shared their experience so I could try my hand at modding.  I was able to mod a Wave with the help of members who shared their knowledge.  Heck, my sharpening, steel knowledge, SAK IQ, and general all things sharp knowledge exploded when I joined.  I love this place because of the generosity of its members.     

Yes we are accustomed to, let me restate that, I am accustomed to the vast amount of free information available online and in particular here on MTO.  The generosity and expertise is wonderful when its at a few clicks away.  I like many go online to solve a problem and thankfully I have been able to ( repair related ).  Saving me hundreds of dollars by being able to do it myself. 

The are many who share knowledge and there are sites we go to get that knowledge.  Those in the profession remove the learning curve for us who will likely only take on the job once.  Their years of experience expedite our being able to quickly diagnose and resolve the problem.  Now I wont go trying to fix my vehicle but I have learned a few things that have helped.

I've read this thread for no other reason than to see who would benefit from this process.  I think the title led folks to believe there would be sharing of this technique.  When a site routinely is one where folks can go to get tips, techniques, and help its no wonder they were asking how it was done.

Your last post promoted me to now respond.  I do think had you stated this technique was "patentable" many tho not all would have not asked for a detailed how to.  When we see Syph007 posting very early on before he went full time modder for pay his techniques we all get a little spoiled.  When other members show full blown how to's we get very spoiled.  I trust you understand that? 

You have every right to post and not show a darn thing regardless of "patentable" or not.  We are a site of folks looking for shortcuts and how to's.  We are spoiled by experts in our hobby offering free advice and instruction.  Heck you give it quite a lot with your dating of SAKs.  We or I look forward to you who offer that free advice especially on how to date a SAK.  Whats free and given here at MTO is time.  Truth is, at least for me, the techniques shown like what I said earlier just take out the learning curve.  Eventually someone will figure it out.

While we don't dialog often I have always enjoyed your posts and in particular those involving you dating SAKs.  We love jazz bass but we don't see him nearly enough.  The free time you give to dating and asking for detailed pictures is wonderful.  I'd be remiss if I didn't add your introduction post.  You clearly state your reasons for becoming a member.  It is the difficult questions asked that oftentimes prompt such amazing answers.  Its the generosity of time the free time offered by our members who make this place what it is and one you are a part of. 

I'm sorry if the thread got "salty".  I think you can understand members come for free because they like you got free from this wonderful site.     

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80164.0.html

[kamakiri]

Thanks so much for a kind and thoughtful post, Aloha. I appreciate it more than I could ever fully express in writing. You’re wisdom, insight and perception are clear. Thank you.

I was preparing to post about some rivet drilling tips when I read your post this morning. I’ll get to that later, as I think a bit more about how my posts are received.

[Aloha]

  Thank you for your response. 

[PitCarver]

Understood. My reply to yours is only to help those who can’t drill a bushing without damaging it.

I went through all the YouTube vids when I got a MiniChamp with 2 damaged blades.  Finally did it my way after being told it was almost impossible.    I replaced both of them without taking it apart, only losing one bushing in the process.

[Explorer]

”Life is not as serious as the mind makes it out to be.”
- I’m not telling who said this!
 

[kamakiri]

”Life is not as serious as the mind makes it out to be.”
- I’m not telling who said this!
 

Lol.

Another example for you then.

Two no drill 2.2mm. Two drilled 2.5mm

No damage or cosmetic issues on any bushings. Everything 100% reusable.

Proof is in the released material. The ‘rings’ leftover from the rivet head which shear off when the pins are punched out wouldn’t be nice and round if there were any issues with release. One good whack for the 4th pin. Two for each end pin. Fought with the center/3rd pin a bit…just for the irony of it.

[m47mu74nt]

I'll put a guess : Are you like "prying" them apart?

That's cool you found a way to properly dismantle these, I didn't 

[kamakiri]

I'll put a guess : Are you like "prying" them apart?

No, that’s not what I’m doing. Rivets are really good at resisting that sort of movement or force applied that way. Tools liners and almost everything else would bend and fail before the rivets give at all especially the ones with the bushings. Even stretching a rivet enough to make a single tool wobble a little bit takes a lot of force.

That's cool you found a way to properly dismantle these, I didn't 

Well I didn’t go to the moon or make nuclear weapons. But I know both can be done…and while I only posses basic knowledge of how those two things are or were done, I do not begrudge those who have the experience or complete knowledge of either subject nor do I focus on the fact that I didn’t or (probably) won’t ever.

Anyway…I still hope that even the simple knowledge that this is possible helps someone in the future to do the same or similar. Or maybe something far superior.

I posted purely from sharing my real-time ‘Aha!’ moment. I’m sorry that people continue to expect otherwise and follow along the tone set by others.

I do appreciate keeping the comments civil, at the very least.

[m47mu74nt]

Anyway…I still hope that even the simple knowledge that this is possible helps someone in the future to do the same or similar. Or maybe something far superior.

I hope so

[kamakiri]

Been spending some time to rejigger things to work on 2.5mm rivets as well. Did all four rivets for a Huntsman yesterday and (un)popped a 2.5mm to pull the Serrated main from this Spartan. This was not faster than drilling, but the rivet can be reused and repeened in its original bushing after slipping a replacement blade in.

[kamakiri]

Oops. Meant the above pic to show the top side of the knife so the length of the rivet is visible after the serrated main was removed.

[kamakiri]

Popped the shackle rivet on the Huntsman LNF to be restored. Worked pretty well, without removing much material. Process and tooling revised a bit specifically for this purpose. 3 good whacks of the hammer and punch to get it to release and the pin came out nice and straight.

Unrelated, but the scales also came off nicely and reusable without cracking the scale lugs.

[m47mu74nt]

Far from easy not to crack those old scales (don't ask how I know.  )

[kamakiri]

Far from easy not to crack those old scales (don't ask how I know.  )

Yeah, glad I haven’t cracked any in half yet. Just spelling the area around the attachment lug holes. And they’re a pain to fix…with or without glue of some sort.

Probably not gonna restore this one. It’s better off as parts to fix others. Briefly considered resto-mod with modern parts and fabricated liners…but the loose parts aren’t that good and I think it would be taxing to gather/harvest all the needed parts to do this one to look original.

[Singh]

I read this entire thread, and certain behaviors don't appear to be passing the sniff test.. I could be wrong, but it all strikes me as rather negative.   

I'd like to think we can be better.

 

 

[kamakiri]

I read this entire thread, and certain behaviors don't appear to be passing the sniff test.. I could be wrong, but it all strikes me as rather negative.   

I'd like to think we can be better.

Please elaborate. Not sure what sniff test I’m failing.

I realize (now) that saying out loud that I’m not willing to share everything just pisses people off and that I shouldn’t ‘brag’ about things I can do on the internet unless I’m going to share how or let it benefit others in some free way for absolutely no benefit to me whatsoever. And that there are only a few people who can appreciate the simple knowledge that this is possible. The cat is already out of the bag…so whatever.  Can’t fire up the flux capacitor to fix this. So I won’t. Sorry, not sorry.

[Explorer]

[hiraethus]

Please elaborate. Not sure what sniff test I’m failing.

I realize (now) that saying out loud that I’m not willing to share everything just pisses people off and that I shouldn’t ‘brag’ about things I can do on the internet unless I’m going to share how or let it benefit others in some free way for absolutely no benefit to me whatsoever. And that there are only a few people who can appreciate the simple knowledge that this is possible. The cat is already out of the bag…so whatever.  Can’t fire up the flux capacitor to fix this. So I won’t. Sorry, not sorry.

Oh do smurf off. Stop making out that you're something out of the ordinary and being treated unfairly.

[kamakiri]

Oh do smurf off. Stop making out that you're something out of the ordinary and being treated unfairly.

Lol. Anyone with eyeballs can see the unfair. I guess the witch hunt is back on. 

[Fuzzbucket]

[kamakiri]

(Image removed from quote.)

But not that guy. 

[bismouth]

Lol.

Another example for you then.

Two no drill 2.2mm. Two drilled 2.5mm

No damage or cosmetic issues on any bushings. Everything 100% reusable.

Proof is in the released material. The ‘rings’ leftover from the rivet head which shear off when the pins are punched out wouldn’t be nice and round if there were any issues with release. One good whack for the 4th pin. Two for each end pin. Fought with the center/3rd pin a bit…just for the irony of it.

Is there a kind of "hollow" bit drill involved? It would help (if center properly) to cut out the part of the brass rod that is deformed onto the rivet head?


(sorry for my english)

[kamakiri]

Is there a kind of "hollow" bit drill involved? It would  help (if center properly) to cut out the part of the brass rod that is deformed onto the rivet head?


(sorry for my english)

Thanks for your questions bismouth…and adding value to this thread!    It’s a refreshing change. Really, it is.

There is some amount of concavity or ‘hollowness’ to several of the different tools/processes I’ve developed. ‘If centered properly’ is a key part of any of the methods as I’m still doing everything by hand.

.

[bismouth]

Thanks for your questions bismouth…and adding value to this thread!    It’s a refreshing change. Really, it is.

There is some amount of concavity or ‘hollowness’ to several of the different tools/processes I’ve developed. ‘If centered properly’ is a key part of any of the methods as I’m still doing everything by hand.

.

Something like a drill bit with two concentrical parts: One that'll remove the excess brass that is on the inside of the rivet head and another that'll centers onto the exterior diameter of the rivet? Can do better centering that onto the rivet itself IMHO

[kamakiri]

Something like a drill bit with two concentrical parts: One that'll remove the excess brass that is on the inside of the rivet head and another that'll centers onto the exterior diameter of the rivet? Can do better centering that onto the rivet itself IMHO

If I’m understanding you correctly, I’ve conceptualized a couple of ways to do what you’re suggesting. But I have not executed either one because of my perceived complexity of one design, the other because I haven’t gotten around to trying it yet. A third reason would be issues with the back pin and shackle/bail type rivets. If I’m understanding your idea.

I like that you’re clearly thinking about solutions. 

Maybe I’ll try something like that for the 3mm rivets…but only for 111mm, not 93mm frames. Probably some time after I get more of the bail/shackle tooling completed.

[hiraethus]

In order to clarify something relating to my earlier comment: I am no longer a moderator here and have no say in the day to day running of the forum or of forum policy in general. Any unprofessional behaviour on my part is my responsibility and mine alone and should not be taken as part of a witch hunt or other coordinated action from any group of MTO members. Your PM was blocked because you're on my ignore list.