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Poll

If Victorinox were to make 84mm scissors, what models should they make?

Cadet X
Cadet II X - w/ small blade, no nail file
Bantam X - modern ‘Voyageur’
Mini Farmer X - either Cadet w/ Saw
Cellidor- Super tinker or Climber
Cellidor- Craftsman/Artisan/Fieldmaster Small
Other - please describe
Doesn’t Matter. I will buy any model with 84mm scissors.

Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want? 2696

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,198
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2021, 12:35:29 AM »
Great question. From my mod experience, the hook can fit an 84mm scissor design. I doubt they’ll put it in an Alox version. But they could since it doesn’t require the 4th pin because of the fixed end backspring design. I hear you on the file. I wish they would just standardize it.

I’d like that too, but not 100% sure on the pen being able to fit as is.

What about a 58mm pen? AKA: the old style they used (and still produce as replacement parts) before moving to the retractable model?
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2021, 03:33:48 AM »
What about a 58mm pen? AKA: the old style they used (and still produce as replacement parts) before moving to the retractable model?

Could be modded or made to fit. The issue with those are that they don’t have the angled head. So it would have to go in some other location with a ‘straight shot’. Most of those places have interference from the rivets and bushings. I’ve looked at that a bit a while back, but didn’t figure out a good way to make it work.

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No Life Club Posts: 4,399
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2021, 05:16:38 AM »
I wasn't precise when I asked my question, apologies for this. I was thinking of Celidor vs Alox. I like the thin Celidors just fine but find that the equivalent thin Alox SAKs are just too skinny to be comfortable as a knife. They make a great backup knife to have in a small pocket or even your wallet, but I wouldn't consider them as a main carry option.

So my question should have been: how comfortable is a two layer Alox SAK as a knife?, and my personal answer is (after taking an Alox Cadet out of my drawer): a bit too uncomfortable for my liking.  :facepalm: :facepalm: Sorry for all the confusion.

All in all, I stand by my choice of a Cadet II X given that I would prefer a three layer SAK when it comes to 84mm (Alox) SAKs.
:tu: :cheers:
Full Member Posts: 221
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2021, 05:24:13 AM »
Cadet X would be the best SAK ever IMO.
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2021, 05:35:46 AM »
We can dream of the day…

But 74mm scissor prototype will have to do for tonight.  :'(

Now where did I put those Serrated Recruits?  ???

Serrated Bantam X?   :think:

Probably too much to ask of Victorinox!  :D



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No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2021, 03:20:00 PM »
It seems that the desired models are pretty clear. Now if only Victorinox would consider making these again. I believe they’d have another feature that people would buy akin to the PX and FX which seem to sell in reasonable volume from what I can see.

I’d also like to think that these would also be very popular gift items. At least the Alox Cadet X and Bsntam X.

I don’t change my opinion 180° very often…but I think it’s more plausible than before. Add me to the list of hopeful buyers. I hope Victorinox is listening. 
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No Life Club Posts: 1,169
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2021, 05:33:14 PM »

I don’t change my opinion 180° very often…but I think it’s more plausible than before. Add me to the list of hopeful buyers. I hope Victorinox is listening.

As much as I like the idea, personally I am still convinced 84mm scissors might only conceivably come back if Vic decides to either kill the Delemont line or the 85mm Celidor SAKs.

If they still have a machine standing around, they might put out a 84mm LE with scissors (wouldn't that be grand?), but otherwise it's hard to imagine Vic investing good money to produce a new part just for a narrow line of niche Alox SAKs. If they produced such a part in their regular course of business, imho it's way more ikely they would put it in every available 84mm SAK, and where would that leave the Delemonts?
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,595 I'm blue!
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2021, 05:50:13 PM »
I voted Mini Farmer X (preferably with nail file). I think the Farmer X too large but would buy a 84mm.

I forgot my second vote, it would be a Bantam X.
Sr. Member Posts: 373
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2021, 06:21:27 PM »
I voted Mini Farmer X (preferably with nail file). I think the Farmer X too large but would buy a 84mm.

I forgot my second vote, it would be a Bantam X.
Do you mean a Farmer X, but in 84mm alox? That’s an interesting idea. Some issues may exist in the alox style awl fitting on 84mm alox body. Not sure that’s been done. I like the idea though.

No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2021, 06:35:09 PM »
As much as I like the idea, personally I am still convinced 84mm scissors might only conceivably come back if Vic decides to either kill the Delemont line or the 85mm Celidor SAKs.

If they still have a machine standing around, they might put out a 84mm LE with scissors (wouldn't that be grand?), but otherwise it's hard to imagine Vic investing good money to produce a new part just for a narrow line of niche Alox SAKs. If they produced such a part in their regular course of business, imho it's way more ikely they would put it in every available 84mm SAK, and where would that leave the Delemonts?

The single ’machine’ idea is the only part of that thinking which wasn’t included in my previous opinion. The tooling for other scissors I believe has been updated several times and my guess is that they are all ground on the same machinery, but in different ‘carousels’ for the different sizes. Clearly, the adoption of several frames sizes to the 91mm type saves them a lot on tooling. Only minor details like the opposite nail nick and 3mm pivot hole were needed to adopt 93mm and 111mm frames.

But my thinking, especially after modding 74mm to ‘fit’ is that the 74mm (which is also common to the Swisscards) could be adopted with just a tang change and new backspring. Just a question of hook or not, and possibly the incorporation of an opposite tool with the extra space (think 111mm). But even the hook could be an option and just (eventually) have two backsprings. Super easy for Victorinox to do at relatively low cost.

Just to visualize the 91mm mod against the 74mm mod both my style that don’t require changes to the cutting edges.
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No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2021, 06:38:31 PM »
Do you mean a Farmer X, but in 84mm alox? That’s an interesting idea.
That’s what I meant for the voting option.  :cheers:

Quote
Some issues may exist in the alox style awl fitting on 84mm alox body. Not sure that’s been done. I like the idea though.

Lots of room for it either way on the ‘single side’ tools that don’t require the 4th pin. But with the saws, small SD or Chisel are the factory options for that width. A new awl would be unlikely, IMO, for this reason.

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Newbie Posts: 41
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2021, 12:11:30 AM »
I have no idea why I thought the 84s didn't have a pin slot. Kind of feel like a moron now, but glad to learn something new.
Sr. Member Posts: 372
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2021, 12:33:41 AM »
Here's another question that we have to ask ourselves: which existing SAK model are we willing to see discontinued in exchange for an 84mm SAK with scissors? I'd be willing to lose the Excelsior/Pocket Pal 84mm knives and the Recruit if it meant getting some 84mm SAKs with scissors. 

Current SAKs: Explorer, SwissChamp, Handyman (modded), Climber, Super Tinker, Tinker, Woodsman (modded), Electrician, Pioneer, SwissTool
Current Leatherman tools: PST, Original Wave, Wave, Wave+, Blast, Bond, Curl, Style PS, Micra

Boomer Sooner!
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2021, 05:08:13 AM »
Here's another question that we have to ask ourselves: which existing SAK model are we willing to see discontinued in exchange for an 84mm SAK with scissors? I'd be willing to lose the Excelsior/Pocket Pal 84mm knives and the Recruit if it meant getting some 84mm SAKs with scissors.

I doubt that any models would need to be discontinued for Victorinox to proceed with 84mm scissors.

I just think they may be underestimating the pent up demand and value as collectibles.

I forgot to mention specifically the 2020 Winter Magic scales. None of us could have predicted such a radical change…and especially not for an LE with relatively small numbers.

This is why I believe now, that it’s possible for them to justify the scissors…if released as a LE of some sort first.

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No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2021, 04:45:38 PM »
So I’ve spent some time trying to figure out what existing parts could be used by Victorinox to make this happen. It seems to me that the existing 74mm tooling would make most sense as it would be easily adaptable to 84mm with a new die to cut a compatible tang and it should be able to fit within the tooling to grind the Swisscard scissors.

A couple of options are needed to also make it work.  One option is a new backspring that closes the active lever of the scissors. The other, using the existing opener backspring would need a tool on the opposite side like the 111mm Phillips, but down sized at 2mm wide to make a head that is the same as the current 58mm combo tool. It’s also possible to make the combo tool profile work, if it’s changed a bit and a lever added.

So Victorinox has viable ‘low’ cost options to make the 74mm scissors work in the 84mm frames.

I should also note that one advantage of these proposed 74mm changes over a modified 91mm type is that the double leaf spring is of course replaceable. I do not see how that is possible with the 91mm while using the full blade profile.

How do you feel about the 74mm scissors + Phillips  vs a new 84mm specific tool?

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Full Member Posts: 207
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2021, 05:15:29 PM »




How do you feel about the 74mm scissors + Phillips  vs a new 84mm specific tool?

I'm so excited, I just can't hide it

Στάλθηκε από το Redmi Note 8 Pro μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

Sr. Member Posts: 372
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2021, 06:01:47 PM »
How do we know that Victorinox doesn’t have the original 84mm scissor tooling?

Current SAKs: Explorer, SwissChamp, Handyman (modded), Climber, Super Tinker, Tinker, Woodsman (modded), Electrician, Pioneer, SwissTool
Current Leatherman tools: PST, Original Wave, Wave, Wave+, Blast, Bond, Curl, Style PS, Micra

Boomer Sooner!
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2021, 06:49:36 PM »
How do we know that Victorinox doesn’t have the original 84mm scissor tooling?

They might, but I doubt it. I think they were last produced in the ‘70s or maybe ‘80s. These were all the ‘old style’ that were essentially the same since the early ‘50s or so.

I don’t think they have space just to store things they don’t use or have no plans to use. They have a pretty clear history of using up old stocks of discontinued parts. And I’m fairly certain the tooling is gone by the time that happens.


I'm so excited, I just can't hide it


 :iagree:  :tu:

I’ve spent my free time this morning playing with mock-ups and sketching how it could work. 100% possible…and many ways to make it work!

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Sr. Member Posts: 372
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2021, 07:07:25 PM »
They might, but I doubt it. I think they were last produced in the ‘70s or maybe ‘80s. These were all the ‘old style’ that were essentially the same since the early ‘50s or so.

I don’t think they have space just to store things they don’t use or have no plans to use. They have a pretty clear history of using up old stocks of discontinued parts. And I’m fairly certain the tooling is gone by the time that happens.
Oh, I see. I didn’t realize how long the 84mm scissors have been out of production.

Current SAKs: Explorer, SwissChamp, Handyman (modded), Climber, Super Tinker, Tinker, Woodsman (modded), Electrician, Pioneer, SwissTool
Current Leatherman tools: PST, Original Wave, Wave, Wave+, Blast, Bond, Curl, Style PS, Micra

Boomer Sooner!
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2021, 07:16:39 PM »
Oh, I see. I didn’t realize how long the 84mm scissors have been out of production.

Yeah, been a while!  Starting ~1970, the 91mm were updated. I estimate the 58mm were around 1973. And I think 74mm by around 1980.

There have been lots of minor updates since. Screw size, pivot type, lever and spring changes, etc.

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No Life Club Posts: 1,169
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2021, 08:00:02 PM »

But my thinking, especially after modding 74mm to ‘fit’ is that the 74mm (which is also common to the Swisscards) could be adopted with just a tang change and new backspring. Just a question of hook or not, and possibly the incorporation of an opposite tool with the extra space (think 111mm). But even the hook could be an option and just (eventually) have two backsprings. Super easy for Victorinox to do at relatively low cost.


Well, too bad Vic just discontinued the 74 mm line and probably retired the related machinery...  ;)
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2021, 08:06:14 PM »
Well, too bad Vic just discontinued the 74 mm line and probably retired the related machinery...  ;)

 :D

But the Swisscards aren’t yet, that I know of. Same scissors, but more space for the tang parts in a grinding carousel.  :tu:

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No Life Club Posts: 1,169
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2021, 09:17:10 PM »
:D

But the Swisscards aren’t yet, that I know of. Same scissors, but more space for the tang parts in a grinding carousel.  :tu:

Well, the Swisscard might be next. Victorinox is on a killing spree these days. :ahhh
Newbie Posts: 8
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2021, 09:21:04 PM »
Cadet X With out a doubt I’m trying to source a scissor to make my own
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2021, 10:49:44 PM »
Well, the Swisscard might be next. Victorinox is on a killing spree these days. :ahhh

Yes, that’s a concern too. Hopefully, the required tooling is still around.

Cadet X With out a doubt I’m trying to source a scissor to make my own

They’re hard enough to get and usually expensive enough that I only use the existing ones for restoration type work. I figure mods might as well get the modded 91mm or 74mm ones.

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Hero Member Posts: 559
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2021, 12:32:40 PM »
Much as I love the wood saw (probably my favourite overall tool) I imagine that it is not anywhere near as popular as the scissors so the question I ask is why retain that in 84mm models and not the scissors? Discontinue the saws In pretty much any of the current range and replace with scissors and it’s almost certainly going to be more popular isn’t it? Much as I wouldn’t want to see the Walker disappear wouldn’t an 84mm Compact be a pretty special  replacement? :0)
Hero Member Posts: 765
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2021, 12:50:23 PM »
I voted for a Super Tinker/Climber or Craftsman/Fieldmaster, but I'll buy any 84mm with more than two layers.  A thicker knife works better in my paws.

The best men carry pocket knives, and then he gave me one.
No Life Club Posts: 2,893
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2021, 04:02:58 PM »
Much as I love the wood saw (probably my favourite overall tool) I imagine that it is not anywhere near as popular as the scissors so the question I ask is why retain that in 84mm models and not the scissors? Discontinue the saws In pretty much any of the current range and replace with scissors and it’s almost certainly going to be more popular isn’t it? Much as I wouldn’t want to see the Walker disappear wouldn’t an 84mm Compact be a pretty special  replacement? :0)

Couldn’t have said it better myself!  :tu: :cheers:

Seriously, the concept of the 84mm Compact is exactly why I built my Serrated Bantam X. I think this toolset would be a clear sales winner.

This is the sort of thinking Victorinox needs to hear from it’s loyal customers.

I voted for a Super Tinker/Climber or Craftsman/Fieldmaster, but I'll buy any 84mm with more than two layers.  A thicker knife works better in my paws.

 :iagree:

Ultimately, I’d like the 84mm Master Craftsman to return. Metal Saw would be a lot easier to add back to the lineup, IMO. But first things first.

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Sr. Member Posts: 372
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2021, 06:12:08 PM »
Ultimately, I’d like the 84mm Master Craftsman to return. Metal Saw would be a lot easier to add back to the lineup, IMO. But first things first.
Ultimately, I want 84mm versions of ALL 91mm models, from SwissChamp on down, so that there would be full size and "small" options for everything. But that's a much bigger ask than just re-introducing 84mm scissors.


Current SAKs: Explorer, SwissChamp, Handyman (modded), Climber, Super Tinker, Tinker, Woodsman (modded), Electrician, Pioneer, SwissTool
Current Leatherman tools: PST, Original Wave, Wave, Wave+, Blast, Bond, Curl, Style PS, Micra

Boomer Sooner!
Full Member Posts: 227 Galaxy-hopping garbage-man
Re: Those who want 84mm scissors - which models would you want?
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2021, 06:41:17 PM »
This is the sort of thinking Victorinox needs to hear from it’s loyal customers.

Given that Vic supposedly makes about 45,000 knives per day, it's the sort of thinking they need to hear from lots of customers rather than just the comparatively few loyal ones...

 

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