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Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica

comis · 88 · 2993

00 Offline Bunk Tuppins

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #30 on: June 11, 2022, 07:30:41 PM
It's kind of hard to make a true replica of these knives.  Apparently the blades etc were carbon steel so they would rust and have to be kept oiled up.  That in itself turns a really accurate replica into little more than a museum piece - who would want to maintain that steel for every day use? This replica, though it mostly won't be used because it's an expensive collectible item, could actually go in your pocket and be run hard and put away wet just like a Spartan.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 07:47:37 PM by Bunk Tuppins »


gb Offline BePrepared

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #31 on: June 11, 2022, 09:34:34 PM
 :cheers:
Thanks for showing us.   :like:


gb Offline Tasky

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #32 on: June 11, 2022, 09:44:59 PM
Apparently the blades etc were carbon steel so they would rust and have to be kept oiled up.  That in itself turns a really accurate replica into little more than a museum piece - who would want to maintain that steel for every day use?
If nobody took the ocasional five minutes to look after their blades, Opinel would have gone out of business long ago...
Saying that, I've not once done anything more to my Opinels than a light resharpening, and they're still looking fantastic.


00 Offline Bunk Tuppins

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #33 on: June 11, 2022, 10:51:24 PM
If nobody took the ocasional five minutes to look after their blades, Opinel would have gone out of business long ago...
Saying that, I've not once done anything more to my Opinels than a light resharpening, and they're still looking fantastic.
I don't know anything about Opinels but I have several Chinese martial arts swords that are made of plain steel.  If you touch the blade with your finger, that will become a rust spot if left without being cleaned and oiled.  Some modern steels are special alloys resistant to corrosion or even coated or plated.  The steel in the 1897 models would not have been like that.  It would be like my swords: you have to clean it every time it touches something moist.  I doubt many would accept that in a pocket knife.


wales Online GearedForwards

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #34 on: June 11, 2022, 11:43:41 PM
I don't know anything about Opinels but I have several Chinese martial arts swords that are made of plain steel.  If you touch the blade with your finger, that will become a rust spot if left without being cleaned and oiled.  Some modern steels are special alloys resistant to corrosion or even coated or plated.  The steel in the 1897 models would not have been like that.  It would be like my swords: you have to clean it every time it touches something moist.  I doubt many would accept that in a pocket knife.

high carbon blades are still in-vogue with some groups, looking after them isn't really much of a chore. Rust preventatives, forcing your own patina, just wiping the blade if it gets wet (I do the first and last with stainless anyway). There's a decent chance you'd get better edge retention, making it more of a trade off with edge maintenance than just straight up more work.
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gb Offline Tasky

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #35 on: June 12, 2022, 02:03:54 AM
I don't know anything about Opinels but I have several Chinese martial arts swords that are made of plain steel.  If you touch the blade with your finger, that will become a rust spot if left without being cleaned and oiled.  Some modern steels are special alloys resistant to corrosion or even coated or plated.  The steel in the 1897 models would not have been like that.  It would be like my swords: you have to clean it every time it touches something moist.  I doubt many would accept that in a pocket knife.
Traditional Opinel blades are carbon steel, yet remain very popular pocket knives, and often last for generations with minimal maintenance. Clearly many do accept it.


nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #36 on: June 12, 2022, 03:02:04 AM
Congratulations, Comis! The scales especially are beautiful & I'd would love to see some current 91mm production with them. Thanks for sharing!  :)
I do too!  But given how each of those scales are hand grinded and non-standard peening, it maybe easier to find a custom job than to expect Vic bring it to 91mm. :think:
Agree. I'm being wishful!  :D

I've seen fabulous custom jobs with peened pins on the outside. The Spartan Wood is the closest Vic gets to my ideal. It's fine for the price.

It may seem some of these tools are a little outdated(after all it's a replica of a knife 125 years ago), but I think all of them are perfectly functional as they are intended. :cheers:

It's only struck me just now (duh!) that the 1897 replica has every significant function of the Spartan, except for the ability to turn Phillips screws; & have T&T, if it matters to you. You don't need a cap lifter when you can use the flat SD as a lever and your thumb as a fulcrum.
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nz Offline Sawl Goodman

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #37 on: June 12, 2022, 03:14:37 AM
This replica, though it mostly won't be used because it's an expensive collectible item, could actually go in your pocket and be run hard and put away wet just like a Spartan.

Very much so, & it's a real shame the great majority will be shelf queens. As above, it has every significant function of the Spartan, except for a Phillips-compatible SD.
Rambler


us Offline Fireman

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #38 on: June 12, 2022, 11:55:28 AM
:cheers:
I do too!  But given how each of those scales are hand grinded and non-standard peening, it maybe easier to find a custom job than to expect Vic bring it to 91mm. :think:

My only complaint about the 1897 is lack of availability.  Buck makes custom knives, if only we could convince the Swiss to do the same.  I know this is impossible, because the Germanic mind cannot conceive that a customer knows what he wants/needs more than the company :rofl:, but I can dream.

Thanks for the report and the pics!   :salute:



us Offline cody6268

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #39 on: June 12, 2022, 02:16:38 PM
My only complaint about the 1897 is lack of availability.  Buck makes custom knives, if only we could convince the Swiss to do the same.  I know this is impossible, because the Germanic mind cannot conceive that a customer knows what he wants/needs more than the company :rofl:, but I can dream.

Thanks for the report and the pics!   :salute:



In addition to offering rebuilds of older Soldier models,  Rothlisberger in Switzerland makes modern versions of the traditional Swiss farmer's knife, but the "tool" bits like saws, pruner blades, and openers (and I want to say sacking needle also) are sourced from Victorinox. Vic could easily do this business in-house.


These are also MUCH cheaper--I think I specced one with most of the offered tools in the frame, a stag handle, and it came in it around $200.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 04:04:25 PM by cody6268 »


ch Offline jaydar

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #40 on: June 12, 2022, 02:51:18 PM
A few snaps with my earliest stainless officer (this is a later knife but it seems a good comparison )

Realy nice job only one criticism
 
I wish they had made the blade a little wider as it feels a bit narrow









us Offline VICMAN

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #41 on: June 12, 2022, 02:58:19 PM
A few snaps with my earliest stainless officer (this is a later knife but it seems a good comparison )


Nice comparison jaydar! :like: :tu: :tu:


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #42 on: June 12, 2022, 03:41:15 PM
 :iagree:

There are a couple videos from Vic as to why they did certain things different from the original.  I think it looks great and I bet there are quite a few folks who would have used these if it were not so pricy and limited. 

Esse Quam Videri


us Offline Myron

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #43 on: June 12, 2022, 04:06:17 PM
Thanks, @Jaydar, for the great comparison pictures.  So fun to see the new and old next to each other like that. 

Myron


us Offline SteveC

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #44 on: June 12, 2022, 05:38:34 PM
It's kind of hard to make a true replica of these knives. Apparently the blades etc were carbon steel so they would rust and have to be kept oiled up.  That in itself turns a really accurate replica into little more than a museum piece - who would want to maintain that steel for every day use? This replica, though it mostly won't be used because it's an expensive collectible item, could actually go in your pocket and be run hard and put away wet just like a Spartan.

People over here  :D

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,68477.0.html


00 Offline Bunk Tuppins

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #45 on: June 12, 2022, 10:42:05 PM
People over here  :D

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,68477.0.html

Well, I mean apart from a few die-hard rust-scrubbers.   :D

* 001b.jpg (Filesize: 234.71 KB)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 11:13:46 PM by Bunk Tuppins »


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #46 on: June 13, 2022, 02:31:34 AM
Thanks for this post and the great pics Comis    :tu:

And big thanks to Jaydar for the comparison pics - Fantastic to see the side-by-side    :salute:

I think the replica looks amazing and I would really love one - Just a bit too much $$$ for me

Sure it's slightly different - But if you look at Jaydar's pics - It's pretty close - Althougth I was very surprised they did not use carbon steel and had the same thought as Tasky regarding the Opinels - I cant say I use my old carbon Soldiers or Opinel a lot - But the steel is fine and needs very little maintenance

And a shame they are so expensive - Because as pointed out - They are probably never going to cut or screw or open anything, or travel around in a pocket  - They'll just sit on a shelf    :(


au Offline Valkie

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #47 on: June 13, 2022, 09:22:24 AM
I would really love on, but cant justify the cost.

Shame.
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gb Offline SurgeUk

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #48 on: June 13, 2022, 12:41:43 PM
I would really love on, but cant justify the cost.

Shame.

 :iagree: :ahhh
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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #49 on: June 13, 2022, 03:51:23 PM
Thanks for this post and the great pics Comis    :tu:

And big thanks to Jaydar for the comparison pics - Fantastic to see the side-by-side    :salute:

I think the replica looks amazing and I would really love one - Just a bit too much $$$ for me

Sure it's slightly different - But if you look at Jaydar's pics - It's pretty close - Althougth I was very surprised they did not use carbon steel and had the same thought as Tasky regarding the Opinels - I cant say I use my old carbon Soldiers or Opinel a lot - But the steel is fine and needs very little maintenance

And a shame they are so expensive - Because as pointed out - They are probably never going to cut or screw or open anything, or travel around in a pocket  - They'll just sit on a shelf    :(

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.  :salute: 

As to the carbon vs stainless debate:  while carbon steel tools would have certainly been more "authentic", given that most of these will be collector pieces, the zero maintenance Stainless seems to be a solid choice to me.
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us Offline VICMAN

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #50 on: June 13, 2022, 06:12:36 PM
the zero maintenance Stainless seems to be a solid choice to me.

 :iagree:


spam Offline comis

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #51 on: June 13, 2022, 09:00:28 PM
Agree. I'm being wishful!  :D

I've seen fabulous custom jobs with peened pins on the outside. The Spartan Wood is the closest Vic gets to my ideal. It's fine for the price.

It's only struck me just now (duh!) that the 1897 replica has every significant function of the Spartan, except for the ability to turn Phillips screws; & have T&T, if it matters to you. You don't need a cap lifter when you can use the flat SD as a lever and your thumb as a fulcrum.
I can see how Spartan could trace its ancestry back to this, many similarities and I too do appreciate the ability to turn phillips screw with the can opener. :cheers:


My only complaint about the 1897 is lack of availability.  Buck makes custom knives, if only we could convince the Swiss to do the same.  I know this is impossible, because the Germanic mind cannot conceive that a customer knows what he wants/needs more than the company :rofl:, but I can dream.

Thanks for the report and the pics!   :salute:


In addition to offering rebuilds of older Soldier models,  Rothlisberger in Switzerland makes modern versions of the traditional Swiss farmer's knife, but the "tool" bits like saws, pruner blades, and openers (and I want to say sacking needle also) are sourced from Victorinox. Vic could easily do this business in-house.


These are also MUCH cheaper--I think I specced one with most of the offered tools in the frame, a stag handle, and it came in it around $200.
:cheers:
Cody, thanks for the info, gonna look them up sometime!


spam Offline comis

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #52 on: June 13, 2022, 09:21:27 PM
A few snaps with my earliest stainless officer (this is a later knife but it seems a good comparison )

Realy nice job only one criticism
 
I wish they had made the blade a little wider as it feels a bit narrow

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
Great comparison pix, and good point on the main blade.  Would it be possible the original drawing on paper was different from the vintage piece, so they are trying to honor the original design via this replica?  I too do wonder why? :think:


Thanks for this post and the great pics Comis    :tu:

And big thanks to Jaydar for the comparison pics - Fantastic to see the side-by-side    :salute:

I think the replica looks amazing and I would really love one - Just a bit too much $$$ for me

Sure it's slightly different - But if you look at Jaydar's pics - It's pretty close - Althougth I was very surprised they did not use carbon steel and had the same thought as Tasky regarding the Opinels - I cant say I use my old carbon Soldiers or Opinel a lot - But the steel is fine and needs very little maintenance

And a shame they are so expensive - Because as pointed out - They are probably never going to cut or screw or open anything, or travel around in a pocket  - They'll just sit on a shelf    :(

To me it is a constant struggle whether all knives/tools I have brought should be used, some of them(especially the vintage ones) are clearly collectable and by using them may further deteriate them.  But on the flip side, what good is the tool/knife, if you buy it and just let it sit around?  And the fact that creating memories with the tools probably will give it more meaning than it just sitting around.  I don't there will be any straight answer to this dilemma(at least for me), and I think it maybe safe to say to just do whatever makes one happy in a long run.   :D


People over here  :D

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,68477.0.html

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.  :salute: 

As to the carbon vs stainless debate:  while carbon steel tools would have certainly been more "authentic", given that most of these will be collector pieces, the zero maintenance Stainless seems to be a solid choice to me.
I only learn to appreciate carbon steel blades when I started collecting GECs and vintage traditional knives.  In some way, I do feel carbon steel maybe a better choice for the knife enthusiasts, whom know how best to take care of them and use them constantly.
I am sure if Vic wants to make a real 'period' piece, they probably could also go full throttle with the copper liner and fiber scale.  Bust as Gareth said, by using more modern material, it does give casual user(whom are accustomed to modern Vic steel) a chance to use them and not to worry about the maintenance. 


us Offline Fireman

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #53 on: June 13, 2022, 09:30:37 PM
To me it is a constant struggle whether all knives/tools I have brought should be used, some of them(especially the vintage ones) are clearly collectable and by using them may further deteriate them.  But on the flip side, what good is the tool/knife, if you buy it and just let it sit around?  And the fact that creating memories with the tools probably will give it more meaning than it just sitting around.  I don't there will be any straight answer to this dilemma(at least for me), and I think it maybe safe to say to just do whatever makes one happy in a long run.   :D

I'm on the "use it" side.  Not that I'd try to pry nails with a replica 1897, but it would have to get carried and used a bit for me to be truly happy.


us Offline LoopCutter

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replicatne
Reply #54 on: June 13, 2022, 10:42:21 PM
Great write up Comis!

From other reviews shared on the web, a common observation.has been the SPARTAN is the decentent of the original.

I do not know my Victorinox history.  Just what I like.  For this replica of 1897 to repreSent the original, it would indicate just how visionary Victorinox's foundation.was!!!

I :congratulate any collector who can score and appreciate a piece of ART as this is.  Enjoy!   :like: :hatsoff:
If I start and end the day above ground, it is a good day!

Hope yours is as good!


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replicatne
Reply #55 on: June 14, 2022, 12:22:06 AM
......
From other reviews shared on the web, a common observation.has been the SPARTAN is the decentent of the original.
......

Or even SAKWiki .................

https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Spartan
The Spartan is probably the most common, and well known, 91mm Victorinox Swiss Army Knife. It is a direct descendant of the historic Victorinox Officer's Knife, having essentially the same toolset as the original knife, but featuring the modern versions of the tools. It is available in numerous colors and handle designs - see 'Scales'.

and

https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Officers+Knife
The Officer's Knife's tool configuration is still available today, but in a modern form as the Spartan. The 2012 Special Edition Spartan (1.3603.L12) was a numbered edition in special packaging that celebrated 115 years of the Officer's Knife.
In 2022, to celebrate 125 years since it was first manufactured, Victorinox brought out an exact replica of Karl Elsener's original Offizier Messer (Officer’s Knife). It was a limited edition with 9999 pieces released worldwide (see image above).


 :tu:


us Offline Swisster

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #56 on: June 14, 2022, 12:32:38 AM
A replica it is not and the more I see it the more it is meh compared to original period pieces. They should have called it an homage and not a replica because it's far from being close to the originals. A laundry list of differences but they do look nice. They should have made this a regular production knife and call it an homage to the original at around $150 and if it didn't continue to sell then discontinue it but I think this would sell regularly at $150-ish because that is what this is. Fancy packaging and numbering don't make knives three times actual value. It's like their yearly limited editions.that are just different colors and they throw numbers on the back and charge almost twice for something that doesn't warrant more than $10 more. They just make their yearly cash grabs for people that will buy anything Victorinox makes. Case and other knife makers do the same thing but your not getting better knives just marked up knives with silly numbers put on them as if that is some sort of justification for the big mark ups. Fanboy rackets that will sell and these companies know this. This 1897 should have been made regular production at a fraction of the price and would have been a nice edition to Victorinox even though I still would not buy one. Overall not bad but not great either and they missed the mark not making this a regular production knife that I feel would sell for years.but it doesn't matter because next year there will more stuff Fanboys will chase and overpay for and Victorinox knows this. Many knife companies are only in business because of Fanboys chasing their over hyped knives and the perceived value that is false and the knives will never be used and not even produced to be user knives. It's nice that with Victorinox you can get a new knife under $25 and use it hard and if it breaks send it back and get a new one with no questions asked. Victorinox regular production stuff is unbelievable value and I don't know how they are able to offer good knives so inexpensively and stand behind them with lifetime warranty. It's kind of crazy to think you can get a new spartan for $20-ish dollars and it's a super solid knife that can take a beating. I love Victorinox but some of the things they do are questionable.


00 Offline Bunk Tuppins

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #57 on: June 14, 2022, 12:50:55 AM
Well I wouldn't go so far as to disparage it.  It's out of reach for me and although I like it, even if somebody gave me one it probably would not fare all that well because sometimes it rains a bit in southern Oregon and those wood scales would swell up so I'm better off with a Spartan.  And although I am not into limited edition collectables I can appreciate the effort that went into this reissue and the fun those who can spring for it might have handling one.  As far as the price and all that - it's a collectable, the price doesn't entirely make sense but that's what those things are.  I don't fault the company for making and selling them - their staff no doubt had fun and they won't lose money.


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #58 on: June 14, 2022, 04:34:22 AM
Thoughtful post Bunk Tuppins  :salute:.

I can agree to use the word REPLICA is wrong.  Beyond that, its a really nice SAK.  Modern parts and process to make a nice collectable SAK.  For those who like limited editions its a win/win and thats never a bad thing.  Those who are fans of Vic aren't hurting anyone for buying this.  As to a regular production?  I'd imagine the difficulty would be the fiber covers.  Those who would use it most certainly would be sending it in when damage occurred and that sure seems likely.  That would be silly on Vics part IMO.

As to price, I also feel its steep.  It really does separate the fans vs the casual user doesn't it?  Fanboy is a little harsh tho.  While I understand the description, I do believe many are more than just fans who'll buy anything.  This was clearly aimed at collectors from what I understand.  Not a terrible thing.  Those who are stoked should be.  I wont criticize those who are eager to get this and hopefully do.

This whole hobby is about fun for most which certainly includes me.  Its not something I'm interested in but again, congrats to those who have one or will be getting one.   
Esse Quam Videri


cy Offline dks

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Re: Initial impression of the new Victorinox 1897 Replica
Reply #59 on: June 14, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Do we really need 2 threads with members saying how disappointed they are with this release because of price, originality, heritage etc.? Yes it is not that cheap for its functions, yes many people will not actually use it, yes it provides a profit for the company, yes it is not made exactly as it was made originally and yes nobody is forcing anybody to actually buy it or like it.

Can't we just keep these to the original thread and leave this one for people that actually are happy to see this release, talk about it and post photographs of it?

Imagine if every time someone posted a photograph of a GEC or another "premium" knife in the traditional thread people started saying similar things as they do for this release.
Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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