Penknife or pocketknife?

[Tasky]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but:

In traditional Sheffield parlance, a penknife has a hinge at both ends and includes a small spear point blade intended for sharpening quill pens. Any friction folding knife that doesn't conform to both of those requirements is a pocket knife.

From Workshop Heaven, but I've seen this said all over the place.

So is a SAK thusly a penknife or pocketknife?

[petey.grizz]

A pen knife, at least in my understanding is a two bladed simple affair intended for light duty office work like opening envelopes and sharpening quills, pencils, and erasing text. A SAK is a multi-function knife and to me isn’t a pen knife. The models like Excelsior or secretary are a pen knife.

[Farmer X]

Petey summed up my thoughts pretty well. I would add that every pen knife is a pocket knife, but not every pocket knife is a pen knife. At the risk of being overly pedantic, I consider a pen knife to be one that has two blades, hinged at opposite ends, with the secondary being a pen blade.

[Helvetica Bold]

I refer to my SAKs generically as penknives. I sharpen my quills with a Swiss Champ…or I would at least!   

[Aloha]

I'm ignorant so I call any knife a pocket knife 

[pfrsantos]

I'm ignorant so I call any knife a pocket knife 

+1

Depending on your pockets, even a machete can be a pocket knife.

 

[Rich S]

For me any SAK over 4 layers is carried in a belt pouch. I guess that could be called an external pocket?

[hsherzfeld]

I was under a general impression that pen knife is a term used more commonly by the British to refer to a pocket knife. I agree that the Secretary and Pocket Pal best fit the technical definition.

[Helvetica Bold]

I was under a general impression that pen knife is a term used more commonly by the British to refer to a pocket knife. I agree that the Secretary and Pocket Pal best fit the technical definition.

 Being from the British Isles I would agree with that. 

[Sawl Goodman]

I'd go with Petey's definition & examples. A pocketknife is more utilitarian.

Some people have referred to my Swisschamp as a penknife. It makes me chuckle.

[SteveC]

A SAK can be a penknife , like the Secretary  or Popular for example

[Sneider]

A penknife is usually a pocketknife, but most pocketknives are not penknives. 

IMO pen knives are really narrow and elongated. The only true pen knives from Victorinox are the slim 84mm models SteveC shows above. (Excelsior, Secretary, Popular etc.)

[Tasky]

Sounds fair enough.
I wondered if a standard SAK would count, as it is hinged at both ends and includes (but is not limited to) a smaller blade intended (originally) for sharpening quill pens. I think it is for this reason so many people insist on calling it a penknife, even though I personally use the term pocket-knife because that's how Victorinox describes it.

[Explorer]

A wise man once said...

A pen in the knife is worth two in the pocket

Hope that clears things up 

[Aloha]

Perfectly

 

[pfrsantos]

I was under a general impression that pen knife is a term used more commonly by the British to refer to a pocket knife. I agree that the Secretary and Pocket Pal best fit the technical definition.

General Impression!

 


 

[Fireman]

You learn something every day.  Turns out I own some pen knives, but haven't a clue how to go about sharpening a quill.

[pfrsantos]

You learn something every day.  Turns out I own some pen knives, but haven't a clue how to go about sharpening a quill.

There you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UGYlEVq1AQ

 

[PitCarver]

True, all pen knives are still pocket knives , but not all pocket knives are pen knives.

I have the same issue with the concept that all bourbons are whiskey, but all whisky's are aren't bourbons.

[cody6268]

Seems in UK English, it has become the defacto name for a pocketknife.

Here in the US, it's a specific style of knife.

[Fuzzbucket]

Seems in UK English, it has become the defacto name for a pocketknife.

Here in the US, it's a specific style of knife.

I'm not aware of it being any different here in Britain. The term used especially when I was growing up was pocket knife.

My understanding is that a penknife is just a type of small pocket knife with a pen blade either end, one slightly larger than the other. A penknife is a penknife, a fruit knife is a fruit knife - both however, are pocket knives.

[Rizio Il Ghiro]

To quote from Chambers English Dictionary (the primary reference source for cryptic crosswords here in the UK) :

Penknife

1. Orig a knife for making or mending pens
2. A small pocket knife with folding blade or blades

So I’ve always understood it as that. Not that it particularly matters! 

[Tasky]

A wise man once said...
A pen in the knife is worth two in the pocket
Hope that clears things up 

Presumably that was Carl Elsener Sr. in 1985 when they first put out Plus Scale models?

[GearedForwards]

Another UK MTO'r chiming in, penknife has always been a certain kind of pocket knife, and pocket knife has always been the overall term.

As for why penknife is so widely used here, I'm going to hazard a guess at the actual pen knife form factor being more popular than others, with a good dose of every x is y ignorance thrown in. Same reason our dyson is a hoover.

[Fireman]

There you go:

 

And now I've learned two things today. 

[Explorer]

Presumably that was Carl Elsener Sr. in 1985 when they first put out Plus Scale models?

Exactly!!
At least Tasky is paying attention 

[Fuzzbucket]

Another UK MTO'r chiming in, penknife has always been a certain kind of pocket knife, and pocket knife has always been the overall term.

As for why penknife is so widely used here, I'm going to hazard a guess at the actual pen knife form factor being more popular than others, with a good dose of every x is y ignorance thrown in. Same reason our dyson is a hoover.

I'm just going to do a quick bit of dysoning... ing....

[Jothra]

Don't forget "clasp knife." That's a thing.

[Jazz]

Pen knife has blades at opposite ends, and a jackknife has blades at the same end. Just call it what you want. A pocketknife is a knife you can carry in your pocket.