Two tricks, one I don’t have a pic of but you know those fake credit cards that they send you in the mail to join Well there perfect, just wrap them long ways with the duct tape and it makes a nice flat roll, yet another you can use as a key ring, but take a 2in cotter pin, slip the tape in between to get a good grip and then start wrapping, works great, only downer is over time the tape can kinda start falling because of gravity, the center still stays on the pin but if you don’t use any and it’s as large as I made them the outer starts to /|\ you can kinda see it on he top of the one to the right,,JR