Multitool.org Forum
+-

Hello Lurker! Remove this ad and much more by logging in.


on the English language

de Offline kreisler

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 178
  • they called me a poser
on the English language
on: October 08, 2022, 06:24:04 PM
girl to boy: "So you're not getting married??"
boy: "Yes."

What does the boy mean? Or would you say that his message is unclear and he should have answered with a full sentence to make himself clearer? From my understanding of English grammar (as a foreigner), he means that he is going to get married. And imho his answer is very clear as is. Am i right?

Let's figure this one out, thank you!  :popcorn:

Btw the answering of a negatively formulated question with a single word "No!" or "Yes!" is a frequent source of misunderstanding in many/most languages for language learners/foreigners because different languages handle these answers differently, i.e. oppositely. That's why, when dealing with foreigners, i always pose questions formulated positively, i.e. lacking any kind of direct or indirect negation, and as simple and straight-forward as possible. In the example, the girl should have phrased her question this way:
"So you're still getting married?"
Then a "No!" would have meant, this time clearly, that he does not want to get married.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 07:39:57 PM by kreisler »


no Offline nakken

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,907
Re: on the English language
Reply #1 on: October 08, 2022, 07:00:12 PM
"So you're not getting married??"
I understand the confusion, as it could mean "yes, your statement is correct". But I don't think people talk that way. Either "yes, I am" or "no, I am not" would be clearer. And I agree about negatively formulated questions, that is a very good point. :tu:
Bantam, BantamAlox, HikerWood, Huntsman, Soldier, RescueTool, SwissTool, Surge, Charge, Wave, Raptor, Rebar, Signal, Pulse, Skeletool, SkeletoolRX, ST300, PST, PS4, P4


no Offline nakken

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,907
Re: on the English language
Reply #2 on: October 08, 2022, 07:01:12 PM
I'm Norwegian though, what do I know :ahhh
Bantam, BantamAlox, HikerWood, Huntsman, Soldier, RescueTool, SwissTool, Surge, Charge, Wave, Raptor, Rebar, Signal, Pulse, Skeletool, SkeletoolRX, ST300, PST, PS4, P4


us Offline Adam5

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 5,029
Re: on the English language
Reply #3 on: October 08, 2022, 07:17:45 PM
I understand the confusion, as it could mean "yes, your statement is correct". But I don't think people talk that way. Either "yes, I am" or "no, I am not" would be clearer. And I agree about negatively formulated questions, that is a very good point. :tu:

In this context, it is clear to a native English speaker that it does mean " yes, your statement is correct". But I do understand that other languages have different sentence structures and different rules on how to interpret strings of words.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

  • Head Turd Polisher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Just Bananas
  • *
    • Posts: 64,768
  • Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: on the English language
Reply #4 on: October 08, 2022, 07:24:41 PM
It gets MUCH worse than that, depending on where you are!

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFNQoRxm/

:D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


de Offline kreisler

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 178
  • they called me a poser
Re: on the English language
Reply #5 on: October 08, 2022, 07:31:18 PM
it does mean " yes, your statement is correct".
wow, so i got the boy's answer wrong, oops haha
 :facepalm:

Thanks everyone for your interesting inputs! (ya no ya  :rofl:)

The example is from The Good Doctor season5 ep9, and the conversation threw me off. In the ep, the boy did mean to say "yes, your statement is correct, i do not want to get married anymore!". However this interpretation is in contrast to what i had learned and practiced in school (Engrish grammar/workbook exercises), dang. Or maybe i should hit the middle school texts again  :D


00 Offline SAKTaschenmesser

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 179
Re: on the English language
Reply #6 on: October 08, 2022, 08:26:27 PM
wow, so i got the boy's answer wrong, oops haha
 :facepalm:

Thanks everyone for your interesting inputs! (ya no ya  :rofl:)

The example is from The Good Doctor season5 ep9, and the conversation threw me off. In the ep, the boy did mean to say "yes, your statement is correct, i do not want to get married anymore!". However this interpretation is in contrast to what i had learned and practiced in school (Engrish grammar/workbook exercises), dang. Or maybe i should hit the middle school texts again  :D
English, as familiarly used in the U.K., can be colloquial, imprecise and ambiguous. A fair amount of work time can be taken up with the to and fro of working out what has been written and undoing misinterpretations.

When I was at school there wasn’t much effort put in to grammar. Many non-native English speakers have a better understanding of English grammar and rules than me and most Brits.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


no Offline Vidar

  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,771
Re: on the English language
Reply #7 on: October 09, 2022, 02:54:44 PM
Ah, messed up the quote - disregard this one.
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


no Offline Vidar

  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,771
Re: on the English language
Reply #8 on: October 09, 2022, 02:55:19 PM
girl to boy: "So you're not getting married??"
boy: "Yes."

Over here a simple yes like that wouldn't be considered a valid answer on its own. As opposed to a simple no which would be a confirmation of the question premise. I wouldn't consider it a yes/ no question. Just because "no" is a full and valid reply doesn't mean "yes" is. That is the perspective from my language background - yours might differ as OP says.
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


us Offline Aloha

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 29,607
Re: on the English language
Reply #9 on: October 09, 2022, 04:29:46 PM
As a native USA Western side of the map speaker I can tell ya, its regional that for sure.  We speak differently here than other areas of the USA.

Sometimes I am confused.  Sometimes I'm sure I confuse people.

Hows this,

On September 26th  I was called asking if I could go out to a job site.  I said yes I can but not until NEXT Saturday.

My client called me on Monday October 3rd asking how it went. 

I informed him that I said NEXT Saturday meaning the 8th of October.   

I asked my partner and she said I was unclear as to which Saturday. 

I should have given a date. 


I thought since he called on Tuesday September 26th that me saying NEXT Saturday should have meant skipping THIS Saturday October 1.

If I said sure I can come THIS Saturday it would have meant October 1st. 

 :dunno: 

 

 
Esse Quam Videri


no Offline nakken

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,907
Re: on the English language
Reply #10 on: October 09, 2022, 05:04:31 PM
We speak differently here than other areas of the USA.
Now that is really interesting!

I totally agree about next Saturday. In my head that clearly means not this one, but the one after. However, if I was driving and someone told me to take the next exit, I would take the first one. :dunno:
Bantam, BantamAlox, HikerWood, Huntsman, Soldier, RescueTool, SwissTool, Surge, Charge, Wave, Raptor, Rebar, Signal, Pulse, Skeletool, SkeletoolRX, ST300, PST, PS4, P4


us Offline Aloha

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 29,607
Re: on the English language
Reply #11 on: October 09, 2022, 05:26:46 PM
 ;) Me too. 
Esse Quam Videri


us Offline nate j

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,743
Re: on the English language
Reply #12 on: October 09, 2022, 08:07:03 PM
There are certainly words and phrases that can be ambiguous, or prone to misunderstanding.

As previously noted, “next” is one of those, as it can mean “the first one we get to” or “the one after this one”.  Another example is “biweekly”, which could mean “twice per week” or “every other week”.

Asking negative questions, as in the original post in this thread, causes confusion.  It would have been better to ask “So, are you getting married?”, which could clearly be answered with a yes or no.

It’s best to simply avoid these things to minimize the odds of confusion.


pt Offline pfrsantos

  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *********
    • Posts: 22,333
  • Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: on the English language
Reply #13 on: October 10, 2022, 01:58:00 PM
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



de Offline kreisler

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 178
  • they called me a poser
Re: on the English language
Reply #14 on: October 12, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
very clear yes no graph:



pt Offline pfrsantos

  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *********
    • Posts: 22,333
  • Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: on the English language
Reply #15 on: October 12, 2022, 01:02:40 PM
How 'bout this one?



 :D :D :D :D
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



de Offline kreisler

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 178
  • they called me a poser
Re: on the English language
Reply #16 on: November 11, 2022, 01:28:10 PM
Hello, what's the common perception of the word "sandwich"?
Meaning, do you think of 2 slices of bread with something (like chicking) in between, or could a sandwich also mean just 1 slice of bread with something on it (like peanut butter). Or how would the latter be called instead if not "a peanut butter sandwich"?

 :drool:


us Offline nate j

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 2,743
Re: on the English language
Reply #17 on: November 11, 2022, 04:33:43 PM
Hello, what's the common perception of the word "sandwich"?
Meaning, do you think of 2 slices of bread with something (like chicking) in between, or could a sandwich also mean just 1 slice of bread with something on it (like peanut butter). Or how would the latter be called instead if not "a peanut butter sandwich"?

 :drool:
Generally, sandwich refers to something between two slices of bread (or between a top bun and bottom bun).

If you’re talking about single slices with only a spread of some sort (e.g. peanut butter, butter, etc.), this would not be considered a sandwich.  I think most people would refer to it as “butter bread”, “bread and butter”, “peanut butter on bread”, or similar.

Though there is also the concept of the open sandwich, I think most people would require something more substantial on top of the bread to meet this  definition.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_sandwich


de Offline kreisler

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 178
  • they called me a poser
Re: on the English language
Reply #18 on: November 11, 2022, 05:28:02 PM
How can i like your post or click on a thanks?

 :like:


us Offline Aloha

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 29,607
Re: on the English language
Reply #19 on: November 11, 2022, 05:44:10 PM
You just did  :D.

What about folded "breads".  If I put something into say a pita or lavash or similar is it sandwich? 

 ;)
Esse Quam Videri


pt Offline pfrsantos

  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *********
    • Posts: 22,333
  • Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: on the English language
Reply #20 on: November 11, 2022, 08:01:52 PM
You just did  :D.

What about folded "breads".  If I put something into say a pita or lavash or similar is it sandwich? 

 ;)

If there are (at least) two layers of bread (connected or not) and they're on the outside, it's a sandwich.

Next question.

 :cheers: :salute:
________________________________
It is just a matter of time before they add the word “Syndrome” after my last name.

I don't have OCD, I have OCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Eff the ineffable, scrut the inscrutable.

IYCRTYSWTMTFOT



us Offline Fireman

  • *
  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,394
  • Truck Monkey
Re: on the English language
Reply #21 on: November 12, 2022, 10:35:15 PM
Hello, what's the common perception of the word "sandwich"?
Meaning, do you think of 2 slices of bread with something (like chicking) in between, or could a sandwich also mean just 1 slice of bread with something on it (like peanut butter). Or how would the latter be called instead if not "a peanut butter sandwich"?

 :drool:

If you make a sandwich with two slices of bread, cut it in half, and share it with me, we both ate half a sandwich.  Hence your folded over slide of bread, to me, is half a sandwich.  However, I asked my wife and she said my examples were all sandwiches.  :ahhh


gb Offline greenbear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 641
  • Outdoorsy type and over-opinionated buffoon
Re: on the English language
Reply #22 on: November 13, 2022, 10:57:28 AM
girl to boy: "So you're not getting married??"
boy: "Yes."

What does the boy mean?

Depends on whereabouts in the UK you are and the local dialect and tone of voice - it could mean either way.

In the West Country - Wiltshire, Dorset, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall it means "yes, I am going to get married" 
if delivered I a neutral tone, but with a slow drawl it is an agreement with the statement meaning,  no he is not going to get married but is agreeing with the question (ie Yeeess)  :D :D :D




ch Offline Etherealicer

  • Admin Team
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • *
    • Posts: 11,989
Re: on the English language
Reply #23 on: November 15, 2022, 09:59:43 AM
Just a note... whatever is between the two slices of bread "needs to be edible". It is why you cannot make an "earth sandwich" by dropping two slices of bread on opposite sides of the planet. But you can make an "Idiot Sandwich", as heads are technically edible (though be aware of prion disease if you eat a raw head).

* is.jpg (Filesize: 72.75 KB)

* raw.jpg (Filesize: 59.12 KB)
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


us Offline Aloha

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *
    • Posts: 29,607
Re: on the English language
Reply #24 on: November 15, 2022, 05:32:23 PM
 :D
Esse Quam Videri


us Online Poncho65

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Just Bananas
  • *
    • Posts: 79,419
Re: on the English language
Reply #25 on: November 15, 2022, 07:46:38 PM
English is for sure one of the most confusing languages :facepalm: and yes, English is my first language :rofl:

Learning Spanish later in life was a much easier experience because if something is said or sounds a certain way once then it is true for the entire language  :woohoo:

English can even have words that are spelled the same but in a different context are pronounced differently :ahhh

Bow for example, "He went bow hunting yesterday" or "He met someone of royalty and had to bow before them" the O in each word is pronounced differently and changes the definition completely :facepalm: or lets try for a third :whistle: He was at the bow of the ship when we first landed" :ahhh :rofl:

Pronounced exactly like the second sentence but yet with a completely different meaning yet again :oops: :D

and of course that is only one word :facepalm: plus, when you add different regions and countries, as Aloha has stated above, then it really gets confusing ??? :D


no Offline nakken

  • *
  • No Life Club
  • ******
    • Posts: 1,907
Re: on the English language
Reply #26 on: November 16, 2022, 04:28:13 AM
I think this speaks for itself :ahhh

Turtle > Turtles
Goose > Geese
Moose > Moose
Bantam, BantamAlox, HikerWood, Huntsman, Soldier, RescueTool, SwissTool, Surge, Charge, Wave, Raptor, Rebar, Signal, Pulse, Skeletool, SkeletoolRX, ST300, PST, PS4, P4


us Offline Barry Rowland

  • *
  • Absolute Zombie Club
  • *********
    • Posts: 21,503
  • Bon Journee!!
Re: on the English language
Reply #27 on: November 17, 2022, 02:27:54 AM
And some say German is a difficult language  :rofl:
Barry


ch Offline Etherealicer

  • Admin Team
  • *
  • Zombie Apprentice
  • *
    • Posts: 11,989
Re: on the English language
Reply #28 on: November 17, 2022, 11:39:46 AM
And some say German is a difficult language  :rofl:
Die Schwierigkeit sind nur die Geschlechter von Wörtern, aber wenigstens haben wir nicht den Französischen Unfug, wo das Geschlecht die Bedeutung ändert.
Tour (de France) == male == tour
Tour (Eiffel) == female == tower
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


nl Offline Ron Who

  • *
  • Absolutely No Life Club
  • *******
    • Posts: 8,724
  • I'm blue!
Re: on the English language
Reply #29 on: November 17, 2022, 03:07:13 PM
My native language is Dutch, but I learned English, French, German, Latin and Greek in school. Comparing them I´d say that English is a relatively simple language even though it has some quirks.

To be honest, I don´t remember much of the French and Greek but I can read German and Latin.



 

Donations

Operational Funds

Help us keep the Unworkable working!
Donate with PayPal!
February Goal: $300.00
Due Date: Feb 28
Total Receipts: $142.25
PayPal Fees: $7.77
Net Balance: $134.48
Below Goal: $165.52
Site Currency: USD
45% 
February Donations

Community Links


Powered by EzPortal